Green Stuff

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Yes, you can do it yourself. EBC greens and reds are great for the street. Some say greens are the ones that leave no brake dust, but I fried a set of reds and didn't have any dust with them either. No squeal either.

If you decide to track your Viper go with EBC yellow.

 

[ntmatter]

Well, I took a brand-new set of reds to the track yesterday, and in about 3 hours ground them down to metal. I'd had 2 track days on the stock pads without much in the way of noticable wear - needless to say I'm not wildly happy about the reds. Also, I have an unbelievable amount of brake dust all over everything. I'm going to throw a set of greens on the front to get me through the Winter, and then look at proper track pads or even (gasp) stock pads for my next track days. From what I've been told the stock pad is made by Bembro, and while expensive and dusty it does work pretty well.

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Andy, you found out the hard way why I recommend street pads for the street and race pads for the track. Unfortunately, there really is no such thing as a dual-duty pad. There will be compromises in each situation. Even though it's sometimes a pain to swap pads in and out, it really is worth it. There's nothing quite like smooth, quiet street pads on the street and try-to-keep-your-eyes-in-your-head race pads on the track.
By the way, we keep the EBC street and race pads in stock, so please consider us for your next order. Thanks!

 

[Tom Friend]

I have had my Greens on for the last 100+ miles, and I love them! They went on real easy- did it myself in about 4 hours (all 4)- would have been faster but I had lots of help from my 2YO son... No special tools needed- socket set, needle nose pliers, torque wrench.

I am still getting used to them- I keep pulling up to stop signs, traffic lights, etc. expecting a squeal and NOTHING- SILENCE. They do not squeal like the stock ones, and the feel is different. Don't know how to explain it other than that. No dust so far. Haven't done any hard stops yet as they recommend an easy break in period.

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ntmatter:
Well, I took a brand-new set of reds to the track yesterday, and in about 3 hours ground them down to metal....... I'd had 2 track days on the stock pads without much in the way of noticable wear - needless to say I'm not wildly happy about the reds....... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Andy......... The EBC RED PADS are not dustless.....only the green are dustless. The reds are 50% "less dusty" than OEM however in street use. 3 HOURS of track time is a LOT ! That is the equivalent of 3 track days !!

REDS can be used F+R for autocross or drags and street, but do NOT have the temp-range to survive track events except in a bone-slow novice. I actually run them REAR on track with no probs.

I 'kind-of' agree w/ Bill/APEX, but I believe Porterfield R4 and that the OEM Bremboas well are still a great compromise pad for street AND track use .... If you can stand the dust.

BEST OPTION is to keep a set of pads/StopTech rotors for TRACK.....and a set of pads/OEM rotors for street....failing that, just swap pads and fluid before track events..........
We have Brakeman, Porterfield, OEM, EBC, and even PFC available for all your needs. "Free Driving Instruction Inlcuded" if you bring em to PIR on 9/28 !!!!!!

 

[BWoodbury]

Disclaimer, I'm still an autocross novice and have never had my Viper on a track. So this is just theory, but it's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

I plan un running Greens on the front and Reds on the rear for street and dragstrip driving. Then switch the fronts over to Yellows for track events, leaving the Reds on the rears. This way I only have to change the fronts. Simpler than changing all four wheels for the track. I also expect that the front brakes will generate much more heat than the rears, so I suspect that the Reds will be OK back there when on the track.

 

[Marc Lublin]

I have a set of Greens on my car for a couple of months. They do produce less dust but are not dust free. They do make it much easier to keep the wheels clean. Mine are not completely silent, I do still have a little squeal in the rears. Nothing like the noise I used to get, but not silent.

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by illy:
What is the EBC brands race pad the Yellow or Red? I am going to do as Jon recommends and have a my Stoptech rotors / "Insert Race EBC pad here" for the track, and my stock rotors / EBC greens for the street. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My first choice for track pad would probably NOT be an EBC pad at all. Maybe. There, Ive said it. Whew!

I sell a hell-of-a-lot of EBC Green / Red , a few Yellows, and have NOT yet sold any of the new Blues yet. So I have no feedback! I have a set on the shelf, going on my car eventually. Maybe Thunderhill this weekend. I have heard ONE report of an advanced driver that the YELLOW endurace is no where near as good as P-R4 or BM-3....... so my personal jury is OUT on which EBC will be best for track. But its NOT gree/red !

I welcome any feedback of Yellow or Blue EBC users in track-only situations.

 

[Wing King]

Andy..... THREE hours of track time in one day?? That's a lot. JonB at Parts Rack and Bill from APEX have both given very good answers, but, as the EBC distributor, I wanted to respond personally.

First, let me urge everyone to read and understand the specifications for their brake pads. I'm a lucky guy because EBC is so "up front" about publishing their specs. I wish I could get this same info out of other manufacturers. Let me quote some numbers from the EBC "Wear/Temperature" chart as printed in their catalog, and posted on our GreatBrakes.com Website. Using the "0 to 10" wear index rating, the EBC pads are rated as follows:

Green: A "3" on the wear scale, and good for approximately 125 "racing" miles, at a maximum of appproximately 900 degrees. Those miles mean "maximum performance" near the 900 degree level for the 125 miles. Obviously, if you're street driving those Green pads, with only occasional hard, unsustained, lower temp use, they are going to last a LOT longer. We have many customers already with more than 10,000 miles+, and still lots of meat left. These are very quiet, very little dust, and have a friction coefficient MUCH higher than the stock pads. You really CAN notice an improved "seat of the pants" feel to your brake pedal.

Red: A "5" rating on the wear scale, and good for approximately 200 miles at 1300 degrees. Generally less dust and noise than the factory pads, but not as good as the Greens.

Yellow: A "7" out of 10 for the wear index, and now good for approximately 250 miles, and now up to 1500 degrees of temperature maximum. Not recommended for street use.

Blue: The MONSTER pads! "10" on the "10" wear index. And, now we're talking about approximately 400 miles at the 1500 degree maximum. These pads like the pro racer's "pedal tap", near the end of a long straight, to bring the temperature UP, before you have to go ******* them. DEFINITELY not recommended for street use.

A BLUE front and Yellow rear combo is absolutely KILLER on a reasonably "track prepared" Viper that has some decent durability and cooling modifications to the stock system. Many also like the Yellow front and Red rear if they are not trying to set "a new fast time" every lap.

Andy, now let's look at your case specifically. For those 3 hours of track time, although I've never driven the track you were on, I've got to believe you would be averaging somewhere at LEAST around 70mph or more. Even if you were NOT out there quite 3 hours, I certainly think those Red pads lasted at least to their approximate rating of 200 miles, or perhaps considerably more. On top of that, to run that much time squeezed into a day, it also figures you had to be running some LONG sessions, likely even longer than Viper Days. If so, I'm almost 100% sure you would have been EXCEEDING 1300 degrees for some periods of time. Your post did not say if you were checking your brake temps, so I'm assuming you were not. Bottom line here, is that it seems to me that the pads performed exactly as they were designed and advertised to do. However, you and everyone else also need to understand that there are also MANY other factors that could have affected your use. We've found that proper break-in is VERY critical, and can cause LARGE variabilty in performance. The same is true for the rotor condition to start with. Even minor "scoring" affects friction, heat, wear, etc.

When you get right down to it, it takes a lot of testing and evaluation to work out the right setup to suit your specific car and equipment, your personal driving style, and the track involved. Unloading "fast" off the trailer is a fantasy we all pursue, but rarely achieve. When we at GreatBrakes, or Parts Rack, or APEX, or any other dealer of our products or our competitors, are asked for advice about choosing a pad for a "starting point", we all give it our best shot. However, in truth, it's a bit like asking us "how long should a roll of bathroom tissue last?" It all depends on how you use it!

Andy, even though I think the pads really did perform as advertised, I don't want you to be unhappy. So, as the EBC distributor, GreatBrakes.com will work though your dealer to give you some "adjustment" on what you already purchased, or a special deal for trying a range that may be more suitable for your use, or whatever you think is fair. I'm assuming it's probably JonB at Parts Rack, so get in touch and let's get you fixed up.

Wing King
Managing Partner
GreatBrakes.com
Exclusive USA Distributor for EBC Viper pads

 

[ntmatter]

WOW. As always, I'm impressed and blown away by the support that I get not only by board members, but by JonB and the staff at PartsRack. JonB and the Wing King both spent time with me on the phone today, addressing my concerns about the reds that I went through. I think that the problem was really one of expectations and my ignorance of track vs. street considerations:

1. My most recent track day was an afternoon lapping session with the Proformance school at Seattle International Raceway. The format was basically an open track from around 12:00 until around 5:00, with a break for lunch. I ran a 1.25 hour session, a 1.5 hour session, and an 1 hour session with only a short (5 minute) break between the last two. This kept my brakes way, way hotter than a typical 30 mins on, 30 mins off track day.

2. Today was my first completely solo day, and so I wasn't running slowly with an instructor pointing out my line. I was DRIVING. (heh heh). This means 135 - 140 MPH into turn 2, instead of 120 MPH - which translates into much harder brake wear.

3. This longer harder driving is in contrast to all of my previous track time, where I was setting expectations based on my stock pads. I think that the big difference was in my perception of what a "longer lasting" pad would be under the type of driving that I was doing.

The upshot is that both the Parts Rack and Great Brakes spent time educating me on brake pads, and both offered to make their customer happy. They'll definitely be keeping my business in the future. An important lesson learned is that there are an enormous number of variables involved when choosing wear components like brake pads - such as track type, cooling upgrades for your brakes, driving style, expectations for wear and stopping power, etc. Don't be afraid (as I was) to sound like a novice and ask specific questions on how a particular component will function given these factors.