How Many Spin Outs or other loss of Control ?
- Thread starter Turbo63
- Start date
quickysrt
Enthusiast
i have spun out while doing simple u-turns a little too quickly(perfect sunny weather).
In the rain or misty mornings its worse so i dont even dare take it out.
In the rain or misty mornings its worse so i dont even dare take it out.
VIPER D
Viper Owner
It happened to me in my silver srt with runcraps when the ground was very cold. Runflats and cold pavement is a no no. I was parked for about an hour and then made a left turn out of the parking lot and I guess overpowerd it. It scared the sht out of me but i didn't wipe out. If it was warmer it would not of happened.
vd..
vd..
ARMORGOD
Enthusiast
Spun out once on a track. Had a car in front of me get a little squirrely and tapped my brakes in a corner (even though I knew better). Back end came around, but it was a pretty tight, low speed corner, so it was very uneventful.
Now that I have the blower the back end is ALWAYS kicking out, but I let off before it gets anywhere near coming around.
Now that I have the blower the back end is ALWAYS kicking out, but I let off before it gets anywhere near coming around.
Ah nope, never. Not even on an autocross course.
Now if you asked me that question about an RT/10 I would have quite a different answer. The difference in at the limit handling is considerable.
Yes, the runflats are slippery when cold. But the propensity to snap oversteer is virtually eliminated in the SRT. and thankfully so.
Now if you asked me that question about an RT/10 I would have quite a different answer. The difference in at the limit handling is considerable.
Yes, the runflats are slippery when cold. But the propensity to snap oversteer is virtually eliminated in the SRT. and thankfully so.
I did once in my RT when I dident see the sand and was at a dead stop on it.
I always spin out in my mustang when its raining because they are so light in he a$$ end, even a drop of dampness on the roads and watch out.
I always spin out in my mustang when its raining because they are so light in he a$$ end, even a drop of dampness on the roads and watch out.
I find that the run flats are useless in cold weather - at least that's what I blame the last hair raising slide on! I was giving a kid a ride that his grandmother had bid on for a charity silent auction, and I took him out on the highway on a fairly cold day in late October. I drove for about 30 minutes then pulled off to turn around and head back - when I started in the other direction at WOT I went totally sideways on the highway. There were no other cars around, luckily, but I was not expecting this at all, scared the $hit out of me, but the kid in the passenger seat was screaming with delight. Of course I told him that I meant to do it! This never happened in my RT or GTS in cold weather so I have to blame the run flats! It was although very easy to get the car back in control. When I spun the GTS on the track it seemed like I was just along for the ride and had no chance at correcting the spin.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
In my 99RT, I was pulling out of the toll booth (the _one_ in GA), did the 1-2 shift, and then got on it hard. car started spinning and there was _nothing_ I could do. I came to a stop 2 feet from the concrete retaining wall looking straight back at the white volvo i'd just passed.
Oh yeah... i flat-spotted the tires trying to slow down too.
Turned out that the problem was a clutch that was slipping. and a bad clutch design (old RPM carbon/carbon clutch). don't use that clutch. ever.
JD
Oh yeah... i flat-spotted the tires trying to slow down too.
Turned out that the problem was a clutch that was slipping. and a bad clutch design (old RPM carbon/carbon clutch). don't use that clutch. ever.
JD
Bob K
Enthusiast
Two spin-outs on the track (Pacific Raceway in Seattle) in my GTS:
First one - came out of hair-pin turn into the back straight in 2nd gear and hit the gas before I was perfectly straght. Rear end came around and I ended up in the gravel infield. No biggy.
Second one - coming out of the back straight into a shallow S too hot. Tried to slow it and began fish-tailing and over- correcting. Left rear wheel slammed into the curb and spun me around 180 before I came to a stop. Pretty exciting for 5 seconds and scared the **** out of me. I wasn't so concerned about my well-being as I was about recking the car. Only damage was to the rim (and my ego).
Bob K
First one - came out of hair-pin turn into the back straight in 2nd gear and hit the gas before I was perfectly straght. Rear end came around and I ended up in the gravel infield. No biggy.
Second one - coming out of the back straight into a shallow S too hot. Tried to slow it and began fish-tailing and over- correcting. Left rear wheel slammed into the curb and spun me around 180 before I came to a stop. Pretty exciting for 5 seconds and scared the **** out of me. I wasn't so concerned about my well-being as I was about recking the car. Only damage was to the rim (and my ego).
Bob K
Previously posted:
How is this for experincing the bite of the Viper tire spin. I picked up my 2005 black Viper on 12/30/04. My friend's 19 yo daughter came with me (all on the up and up. I pulled out of the dealership across the street to the stop sign to enter the highway. The traffic cleared I gave it ONLY enough gas to blend into traffic, the car instantly went out of control at which point I het the curb and lampost. the car has 50 miles on it and has not seen my garage nor will it for at least 3 weeks. Now I know you will be tempted to ask what cars I have driven and that I couldnt handle the torque. I have a porsche, a Ferrari and a 'Cuda with 4 speed. I know that they dont have the torque of the Viper but what happened was not normal. I would be happy to blame myself if it was appropriate. I didnt even get moving, it was weird and frightening and the 19 yo daughter now calls the car the "Devil Car" I feel like I do not want this car, it is supposed to be my everyday driver which is why I leased it. From the posts it sounds like I am not the only one to experience this. I really love the look and feel of the car but don't want to die. I did test drive the car extensively and loved it. I may not have a choice with a leased car,but I can get pretty loud with Chrysler if need be. What do I do?
How is this for experincing the bite of the Viper tire spin. I picked up my 2005 black Viper on 12/30/04. My friend's 19 yo daughter came with me (all on the up and up. I pulled out of the dealership across the street to the stop sign to enter the highway. The traffic cleared I gave it ONLY enough gas to blend into traffic, the car instantly went out of control at which point I het the curb and lampost. the car has 50 miles on it and has not seen my garage nor will it for at least 3 weeks. Now I know you will be tempted to ask what cars I have driven and that I couldnt handle the torque. I have a porsche, a Ferrari and a 'Cuda with 4 speed. I know that they dont have the torque of the Viper but what happened was not normal. I would be happy to blame myself if it was appropriate. I didnt even get moving, it was weird and frightening and the 19 yo daughter now calls the car the "Devil Car" I feel like I do not want this car, it is supposed to be my everyday driver which is why I leased it. From the posts it sounds like I am not the only one to experience this. I really love the look and feel of the car but don't want to die. I did test drive the car extensively and loved it. I may not have a choice with a leased car,but I can get pretty loud with Chrysler if need be. What do I do?
SteveT
Enthusiast
I must drive like an old fart compared to the rest of you guys...
So far, never spun out or lost control of any of the Vipers I have owned. Lots of times I felt the rear starting to slip in the 1-2 shift but just backing of the power brings it back in line.
05 Yellow SRT10
03 Red SRT (gone)
02 Graphite GTS (gone)
97 Red GTS (gone)
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Our other cars: 2005 SL65 Pewter / 2005 G55 Graphite / 2005 SSR Silver / 2004 Gallardo Yellow / 2004 NSX Black / 2004 Z06 Machine Silver / 2004 H2 White / 2002 Candy Red Prowler + 2001 Orange Prowler + 2001 Silver Prowler / 2002 35th Anniversary Camaro SS Convertible / 1970 Black Chevy SWB Pick up / 1969 Garnet Red Camaro SS 350 / 1969 Chevelle SS 396 / 1969 Impala SS 427 / 1968 Chevy Step Side Truck L98/700r4 / 1967 Hugger Orange Camaro 400 / 1955 Yellow Chevrolet Truck / 1934 Ford Sedan / 1930 Ford Hiboy Coupe 302 5spd
So far, never spun out or lost control of any of the Vipers I have owned. Lots of times I felt the rear starting to slip in the 1-2 shift but just backing of the power brings it back in line.
05 Yellow SRT10
03 Red SRT (gone)
02 Graphite GTS (gone)
97 Red GTS (gone)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our other cars: 2005 SL65 Pewter / 2005 G55 Graphite / 2005 SSR Silver / 2004 Gallardo Yellow / 2004 NSX Black / 2004 Z06 Machine Silver / 2004 H2 White / 2002 Candy Red Prowler + 2001 Orange Prowler + 2001 Silver Prowler / 2002 35th Anniversary Camaro SS Convertible / 1970 Black Chevy SWB Pick up / 1969 Garnet Red Camaro SS 350 / 1969 Chevelle SS 396 / 1969 Impala SS 427 / 1968 Chevy Step Side Truck L98/700r4 / 1967 Hugger Orange Camaro 400 / 1955 Yellow Chevrolet Truck / 1934 Ford Sedan / 1930 Ford Hiboy Coupe 302 5spd
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
I've never spun out or lost control.
However, I began taking high performance driving lessons almost as soon as I purchased the Viper. These lessons certainly helped.
However, I began taking high performance driving lessons almost as soon as I purchased the Viper. These lessons certainly helped.
There are numerous theories as to why this happened. It was a pretty cold night and the car had been sitting waiting for me to pick it up so the tires were cold and the runflats have terrible traction when cold. Also, the theory of armorall on tires when detailed. I feel that there may have been some dirt/gravel/ sand on the road due to the construction being done adjacent to the on ramp. All I know is that given all the circumstance it was not a normal way for a car to behave. Obviousl there is some merit to the problem with the cars or this and numerous like threads would not exist on this forum.
Ugh...Only Once. And that was indeed enough to hold me over for the rest of my life!
In my FE GTS, I was coming off a concrete Exit ramp rated at 30 MPH, and I was doing 40 MPH. Normally, this would never be a biggie. To put this ramp into perspective, there is grass on your right with markers every 20 feet, a concrete barrier on your left. 1 lane wide, and it has a smooth transition from a sloping right hander to a sloping left hander, not tight at all really. As I exited the right hander and began into the left, the back of the car jumped to the INSIDE of the turn! Seeing as in physics this doesnt make sense, you have got me- must have been a rut or something. (I have heard one other report of a similar situation with another local guy) When I tried to correct the jump, the car did not respond at all, almost like a hydroplane. However, when the front tires wandered off of the concrete and onto the blacktop shoulder, the car GRABBED traction, shot the car back onto the concrete, and threw me into a counter-clockwise spin. I did a complete 180, on the concrete, in the space of 1 lane+5 foot shoulder, BETWEEN the Concrete barrier and the markers, and then slid off the road sideways/backwards into the grass PERFECTLY center of two markers! I truly had an angel in the car that day. Short of two small stone chips in the driver sidesill, NO damage. Put it on an Alignment rack and a frame machine...nothing. I couldnt believe it. When I went back later to survey the situation, it turns out the concrete was polished almost to the point of using it for a mirror. No wonder...
Another "close call" was in my SRT about a month after I got it. Was going on a Dyno Day up in Ontario... weather went south and it started raining. was heading down a 2 lane road, and I hopped on it a little in 4th gear. Back end kicked out left into the oncoming traffic lane, but I was lucky enough to catch that one before anything happened.
Goes to show you- Even with 30,000 "Viper Miles" under my belt, the car still has tricks it hasnt shown you yet!
Be careful out there...
In my FE GTS, I was coming off a concrete Exit ramp rated at 30 MPH, and I was doing 40 MPH. Normally, this would never be a biggie. To put this ramp into perspective, there is grass on your right with markers every 20 feet, a concrete barrier on your left. 1 lane wide, and it has a smooth transition from a sloping right hander to a sloping left hander, not tight at all really. As I exited the right hander and began into the left, the back of the car jumped to the INSIDE of the turn! Seeing as in physics this doesnt make sense, you have got me- must have been a rut or something. (I have heard one other report of a similar situation with another local guy) When I tried to correct the jump, the car did not respond at all, almost like a hydroplane. However, when the front tires wandered off of the concrete and onto the blacktop shoulder, the car GRABBED traction, shot the car back onto the concrete, and threw me into a counter-clockwise spin. I did a complete 180, on the concrete, in the space of 1 lane+5 foot shoulder, BETWEEN the Concrete barrier and the markers, and then slid off the road sideways/backwards into the grass PERFECTLY center of two markers! I truly had an angel in the car that day. Short of two small stone chips in the driver sidesill, NO damage. Put it on an Alignment rack and a frame machine...nothing. I couldnt believe it. When I went back later to survey the situation, it turns out the concrete was polished almost to the point of using it for a mirror. No wonder...
Another "close call" was in my SRT about a month after I got it. Was going on a Dyno Day up in Ontario... weather went south and it started raining. was heading down a 2 lane road, and I hopped on it a little in 4th gear. Back end kicked out left into the oncoming traffic lane, but I was lucky enough to catch that one before anything happened.
Goes to show you- Even with 30,000 "Viper Miles" under my belt, the car still has tricks it hasnt shown you yet!
Be careful out there...
Well it's not really the "devil car"! If you drive it like an old man then you will never have this problem...drive it like a mad man and you will probably experience it at some point.
Don't give up on the Viper because if you do you will miss out on a whole $hit load of fun.
SNAKEPILOT
Viper Owner
OK so...first it was...
Guns kill people!
Now...
Vipers kill people!
People have nothing to do with it!. Those nasty guns and Vipers are to blame.
Guns kill people!
Now...
Vipers kill people!
People have nothing to do with it!. Those nasty guns and Vipers are to blame.
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
Vipers(92-05) have handling and braking improvements but the all have massive torque and huge tires. The do follow the laws of physics and vehicle dynamics.
Short Story in 1996 my wife told me Vipers were defective and killed people. She was serious. My beloved Viper was now under attack by a local rumor mill. Someone(passenger) had been killed and the driver was seriously injured. A friend of the drivers wife worked for my wife. I never did suspect the Viper has having a problem other than being sold to people who were not experienced with high performance cars. This incident motivated me to take first Skip Barber Driving School in early 1997 before VOI 4. At VOI 4 we went to Sebring to experience a day of Viper performance on a road course. Skip Barber provided drivers and staff to manage this activity. I enjoyed the road course because it provided an opportunity to use of the Vipers performance in a controlled environment.
I was so impressed with the Skip Barber course that I wanted to learn more so several years later and 15 days of Skip Barber courses autocross and open track events I still learning.
This is how I got the nick name Driving School. I encouraged all owners of Vipers to take a Skip Barber driving school. I tried to get Dodge(worked with Bob Champine ) to include a Driving School with the purchase of the car. Legal issues were blamed for not allowing this to happen. Bob did arrange for me to get the Corporate discount with Skip Barber. I worked with Skip Barber(Skip was the owner at that time) and Bob Champine and also E when Bob departed. With the help of E and Maurice and Skip a Viper Club Discount program became official and remains in place. It is 25% for the Two Day School and 10% for all other courses including lapping days.
Our region offers a one day school Skip Barber school with a course specifically for the Viper. It is deeply discounted and maximizes Viper Seat time. Working on allowing class members to drive their cars on the autocross at the end of the day. This will give the drivers a chance to compare how their cars will respond in a performance exercise.
This course is primarily for the members of our Region but we do allow members from other regions to attend. Last year the event was over sold the first week it was announced, so we scheduled a 2nd event. This year there will be only one school. It has not been officially announced or offered to our members yet, but it will be on Monday. This one day course has a huge amount of Viper use, more than any other Skip Barber program. The is great for an excellent program taught by excellent instructors. Almost forgot, and I get to pick the instructors for this course.
Anyone who drives a Viper or any Performance vehicle should take a Performance Driving. These schools are fun and improve the Viper driving experience and driver safety. And a performance driving school is the best modification to reduce your lap times on a road course.
If you want info to have a school for your region please let me know.
Back on Topic Spin Outs, Laguna Seca 1997 - first group on the track, new Dunlop Slicks shipped from England, 3rd turn of the session face to face with a bunch of RX7's coming out of turn 3. Not a very nice feeling. I would like to blame the car but in fact my tires were cold, I was excited, and I was not smooth enough with the go juice. It was a no contact 360, had an angle with me.
Short Story in 1996 my wife told me Vipers were defective and killed people. She was serious. My beloved Viper was now under attack by a local rumor mill. Someone(passenger) had been killed and the driver was seriously injured. A friend of the drivers wife worked for my wife. I never did suspect the Viper has having a problem other than being sold to people who were not experienced with high performance cars. This incident motivated me to take first Skip Barber Driving School in early 1997 before VOI 4. At VOI 4 we went to Sebring to experience a day of Viper performance on a road course. Skip Barber provided drivers and staff to manage this activity. I enjoyed the road course because it provided an opportunity to use of the Vipers performance in a controlled environment.
I was so impressed with the Skip Barber course that I wanted to learn more so several years later and 15 days of Skip Barber courses autocross and open track events I still learning.
This is how I got the nick name Driving School. I encouraged all owners of Vipers to take a Skip Barber driving school. I tried to get Dodge(worked with Bob Champine ) to include a Driving School with the purchase of the car. Legal issues were blamed for not allowing this to happen. Bob did arrange for me to get the Corporate discount with Skip Barber. I worked with Skip Barber(Skip was the owner at that time) and Bob Champine and also E when Bob departed. With the help of E and Maurice and Skip a Viper Club Discount program became official and remains in place. It is 25% for the Two Day School and 10% for all other courses including lapping days.
Our region offers a one day school Skip Barber school with a course specifically for the Viper. It is deeply discounted and maximizes Viper Seat time. Working on allowing class members to drive their cars on the autocross at the end of the day. This will give the drivers a chance to compare how their cars will respond in a performance exercise.
This course is primarily for the members of our Region but we do allow members from other regions to attend. Last year the event was over sold the first week it was announced, so we scheduled a 2nd event. This year there will be only one school. It has not been officially announced or offered to our members yet, but it will be on Monday. This one day course has a huge amount of Viper use, more than any other Skip Barber program. The is great for an excellent program taught by excellent instructors. Almost forgot, and I get to pick the instructors for this course.
Anyone who drives a Viper or any Performance vehicle should take a Performance Driving. These schools are fun and improve the Viper driving experience and driver safety. And a performance driving school is the best modification to reduce your lap times on a road course.
If you want info to have a school for your region please let me know.
Back on Topic Spin Outs, Laguna Seca 1997 - first group on the track, new Dunlop Slicks shipped from England, 3rd turn of the session face to face with a bunch of RX7's coming out of turn 3. Not a very nice feeling. I would like to blame the car but in fact my tires were cold, I was excited, and I was not smooth enough with the go juice. It was a no contact 360, had an angle with me.
I have never had the problem on the road. I lost count at Skip Barber...I agree that the school is a fantastic start for the Viper owner. Only problem is they use the Michelins and it makes me want a set every time I let the clutch out.
GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
Track and racing expierience where the car is never going in the direction its pointed will help.So will driving on ice and snow.Driving sideways becomes normal,natural and automatic.Lot of good drivers come from Canada,Northern europe etc. GTS Bruce
doctorbob
Enthusiast
Probably if you have not had an episode or two of dicovering your car sideways, you have not pushed the envelope or had the bad weather experience. Anyone who has a viper should take a professional driving school...it just makes you a better driver and able to handle out of control situations. My best "360" was at VIO 5(Vegas Motor Speedway in the rain) at the road part of the course....came into that first big turn too hot, did a 360...completely out of control(remember in a spin both feet in as in brake and clutch)...ended up never leaving the track surface and aiming the right direction to keep on going with the drive.
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
NASCAR drivers from the North? I thought most were from the South and Ex-Moonshine runners.
Open wheel drivers seem to be from Brazil. I do not see drivers from snow country dominating auto racing.
Driving in the snow will teach being smooth and turning into a slide, but there is a lot more to learn.
Open wheel drivers seem to be from Brazil. I do not see drivers from snow country dominating auto racing.
Driving in the snow will teach being smooth and turning into a slide, but there is a lot more to learn.
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
The problem is not with the cars. The problem is with the drivers. The car has over 500 lb feet of torque, no stability control, and extremely responsive steering. You can't drive this car the same way you do other cars. If you do, you will get yourself into trouble.
I read your story about your spin out. I doubt there was any problem with your car or your tires. My vote is "pilot error."
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
M.Sch.... is Great!
So is:
Rubens Barrichello Sa Paulo, Brazil Snow?
Jenson Buttons UK Snow?
Fernando Alonso. Spain Snow?
Juan p. Montoya Colombia snow?
F1 top five for 2004 There is no relationship to snow and auto racing.
So is:
Rubens Barrichello Sa Paulo, Brazil Snow?
Jenson Buttons UK Snow?
Fernando Alonso. Spain Snow?
Juan p. Montoya Colombia snow?
F1 top five for 2004 There is no relationship to snow and auto racing.
Franko
Enthusiast
If i didn't grow up in the snow of the suburbs of NYC i wouldn't be half the driver that i am today. Snow, Rain & Ice makes for good practice!
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
I do understand you feeling about driving in the Snow. Lived near Wheeling WV, 60 miles South of Pittsburgh, PA 1944-1967: Erie PA 67-70 back to WV 70-73, Chicago 73-76. I was also raised in snow country and there is little relationship between performance driving.
In my first Driving school we were ask how many knew how to drive? Everyone thought the knew how. After the two day course everyone realized how little we knew about performance driving.
In my first Driving school we were ask how many knew how to drive? Everyone thought the knew how. After the two day course everyone realized how little we knew about performance driving.
The problem is not with the cars. The problem is with the drivers. The car has over 500 lb feet of torque, no stability control, and extremely responsive steering. You can't drive this car the same way you do other cars. If you do, you will get yourself into trouble.
I read your story about your spin out. I doubt there was any problem with your car or your tires. My vote is "pilot error."
I disagree wholeheartedly. There wasnt a problem with my car that was any different than any other Viper. this obviously is an inherent problem with the cars if this can happen. The only pilot error I made was letting up the clutch. I didnt even have a chance to start driving. I don't care who was driving, the same thing would have happened. Because of the ramp with a curb on the right there was no time or room to gather the car back up. It happened so quickly and without warning. I didnt accelerate hard and I wasnt turning the wheel. It's easy to blame pilot error when you werent the pilot. Although I didnt take the Barber driving school yet, I did take the two day Porsche Precision Driving School with Derek Bell at Bridgehampton so I do have some idea of what I am doing. The only thing that could have been different was for me to creep onto the highway but that could only have been done if no other car was coming.Even this would have been near impossible because the road bends and you cant see all the cars that are coming. You must accelerate to blend into the flow of traffic that is traveling at a minimum speed of 60 MPH. In spite of this I should be getting my car within a week and i am looking forward to get back on the wild beast and try to tame it.
I read your story about your spin out. I doubt there was any problem with your car or your tires. My vote is "pilot error."
I disagree wholeheartedly. There wasnt a problem with my car that was any different than any other Viper. this obviously is an inherent problem with the cars if this can happen. The only pilot error I made was letting up the clutch. I didnt even have a chance to start driving. I don't care who was driving, the same thing would have happened. Because of the ramp with a curb on the right there was no time or room to gather the car back up. It happened so quickly and without warning. I didnt accelerate hard and I wasnt turning the wheel. It's easy to blame pilot error when you werent the pilot. Although I didnt take the Barber driving school yet, I did take the two day Porsche Precision Driving School with Derek Bell at Bridgehampton so I do have some idea of what I am doing. The only thing that could have been different was for me to creep onto the highway but that could only have been done if no other car was coming.Even this would have been near impossible because the road bends and you cant see all the cars that are coming. You must accelerate to blend into the flow of traffic that is traveling at a minimum speed of 60 MPH. In spite of this I should be getting my car within a week and i am looking forward to get back on the wild beast and try to tame it.
GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
Slippery surfaces,ice,snow,cold and wet teach car control.Steering corrections and using the pedals becomes instinctive.If its not you are lost.Of course dirt and gravel are good teachers too.These incidents are not racing related.Just lack of car control during simple manuvers.Basic how to use the brake,throttle and steering wheel on limited traction surfaces.AND most importantly your Brain. GTS Bruce
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