Motons & Wheel Spacers Installed Pics

[bmw2nv2000]

Rocket all my eibach/spring cap vipers would rub the inner rear liners on big bumps the great thing about the motons is I can turn it up a few clicks and stop that if it is too bad.

 

[Viper X]

Car looks cool.

Rear tires will the rub fender lips, more so at speed and with bigger bumps. Be careful at speed.

Wider track will improve handling, all else being equal.

Just don't forget to turn the shocks "UP" if you are loaded, i.e. if the trunk is full and you have a passenger - I always do!

Dan

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Yep rears will rub on big bumps at speed but Im altering that now but still worth the time and energy of altering for the look I want IMO. I was already thinking when I have a passenger or stuff in the trunk I will go up a few clicks.

 

[Viper X]

What length and rate are your rear springs?

You can run a bit higher spring rates and still have a pretty good ride with the Moton's superior damping ability.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Not sure the length but they are 700lbs. I will be going with 800 or 850 next spring. What length should I go with? I do have helper springs too.

 

[Viper X]

Many of us run 8 inch, 500 lb front / 800 lb rear springs in our lowered street cars. This is what I run in my 06 coupe, but I don't run my car as low as you do and I run OE off sets on the wheels, which helps them "arc" up inside the wheel wells when hitting bumps at speed.

Based upon how low your car looks in the photo, you might want to try 7-inch springs in about 850 lbs. This should help with your "rubbing" issues. Individual springs are relatively inexpensive and easy to change with Motons. I prefer Eibach springs, not to be confused with Eibach spring lowering kits.

Talk with Mark J at Woodhouse about this as he can get you the springs and is knowledgeable on this subject.

Dan

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

2000 Black. Im far from an expert. What you said makes total since to me in theory, but in order to get the correct roll center dont the suspension mounting point need to be moved or longer arms? If my assumption is correct, the acr has a lower stance "center of gravity" but the same mounting points on the a arms. The car needs to transfer weight on the outerwheels thru roll or downforce transfer and if the ride height is lower than than roll center it will actually push the weight out instead of transfering it down. That being said and taking the ride quality, oem cost, out of the equation, which car between the srt10, acr, and acrx has a better, roll center setup, or what is the best setup/ride height for the fixed postions on these cars?

Oh btw the car looks great.

This can end up being a VERY complicated debate regarding vehicle dynamics. First of all yes lmcgrew79 (great reply btw!), adjusting the geometry for a wider track is definitely more ideal, yes low volume parts are very expensive (it's always a challenge to get a program team at an OEM to justify costs) and there are bandaids to accommodate this. Dodge has surely thoroughly designed their setup, I would highly question a modification appreciating the depths that they have go into. As an analogy, it's like shaking salt or pepper on a dinner that a professional chef's dinner that you haven't even tried yet (trying to be funny). I know enough about the major ingredients to justify my intial comment. Yet there seems a bit or lack of respect or knowledge of what the OEM has achieved, thinking that some can just bolt on stuff or adjust it and to make it better.

Perhaps as a suggestion for the next VOI, Dodge could present how they develop or tune the vehicle dynamics of a Viper.

Shift the roll center at the front and rear will have an impact in many aspects. Such as a questionable comment about the Comp Coupe using spacers so it must be a good thing. I'm not here to debate, but I actually do enjoy a decent conversation and freely share past knowledge. First of all the body roll, shifting the roll center will change the loads on the springs and the anti roll bars (which is different) in addition to changing the track width, heck even the last company I worked at actually helped design and build the first Comp Coupe prototype for Chrysler (in addition they designed suspension for others in FIA F1 (i.e. Red Bull, Ferrari), GT1, GT2, GT3, ALMS, Daytona Prototype, etc.) in addition to the Gen2 GTS-R race Vipers in the past. It's a system needing to consider all of the components (everything, even the bushings). These changes also has an impact on under / over steer characteristics, jacking, etc.. Spacers add stress to the wheel bearings. It changes the handing attributes of the car at the front and rear. Again it's a system, as I realize some haven't been exposed to the indepth validation of a car, my perspective may be crudely rejected, which is ok. I think what some don't realize is that if you change one thing, something else has to change. I've been trained at work by a coworker Murray W. (but he went back to Lotus in the UK) who was a go to guy for the Viper / SRT team at one time, it's surprising what is involved with vehicle dynamics, as it is a science that's for sure. Sure lowering the car right off the bat can help aero, but... I'll go more indepth as questions arise if it's of any interest, but I DO NOT consider myself an expert, as I learned from others.

Couple pics in the last shop I worked at..

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Cheers,
Mike

PS.. my comment about being VERY complicated, what I learned is what may feel good regarding to handling from a novice is entirely different than a professional, and as working and learning from them, designing cars with them in my career has really changed my perspective. As Murray told me "the more you end up knowing about vehicle dynamics, the more things you will not like about the car that you are driving and you'll never be happy". Ignorance is bliss.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Thanks Dan. Ill give Mark a shout.

 

[Leslie]

Motons and spacers...are you tracking the car?

Viper looks great btw

 

[lmcgrew79]

Cool Photos, Im sure OEM go to somewhat great engineering depths on there products, more so than what "some" aftermarketer probably does. That being said, Designers have to fight with engineers, and both have to fight with bean counters as Bob Lutz calls them. So there for, i would say depending on the product, that oem isnt always the best. Any one off items like , bushings or cast swing arms, the frame, engine etc. etc. May be best left to OEM. ON the other hand, cost items or aftermarket items that may be superior to oem would be the companys that have there own engineering (Brembo, KW, Stoptech, Tremec). So the car may not have the best items it can have, depending on cost, and or durability. The engineers have to work with what they are giving (budget) that fits with what the designer wants, and to make the most dependable best possible product for the end user. Im very leary about what i change from my car from oem to aftermarket. At the end of the day they have to try and sell these cars and make these cars appeal to the end user for different uses. Some people want street cruziers for looks, some people may want to drag race, some track cars, some sunday drivers, and some just set in there garage and never get driven. So i would imagine that is is hard to engineer the best car for for multiple uses. Thats where i think that aftermarket modifications should be done to better suit what the purpose of the car may be used for. And with this forum we get loads of trial and error from which engineering can be applied, and then trial and error again for the results.

PS. I just like to debate.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Ok lmcgrew79, I'm a sucker for a good debate. Good points, perhaps we should start a new Post and not hijack the OP bmw2nv2000's Post.. (in good humor).

The "best" items can be subjective depending on the buyer. So you need to define "best". There is actual and perceived. OEMs are quite aware of this, as perceived quality is not always the best solution functionally (regarding engineering aspects). OEMs look to JD Power for data to evaluate perceived quality just as an example, especially for high volume cars. There are times when a designer or engineer has a better solution, but from the marketing point of view, it is turned down as it's not always about costs (even though the engineer's better solution may be less expensive to manufacture).

 

[c65491]

OP ur car looks amazing,

nice post (2000blackrt10)

btw how much does a wide body kit like that coasts? i know there are more than 1 kind of a wide body kit

 

[lmcgrew79]

lol..maybe not the "best' choice of words, substitue "most accurate" or "correct" for best..
JD Power just sent me a crisp one dollar bill and a form to fill out about a week ago..lmao..We are in big trouble.
Im done hijacking sorry.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Heck ya'll arent bothering me with your debating.
No track time but will see the drag strip a few times Leslie.

 

[thompsonracing]

Edit, saw your response!

 

[ViperCobra]

I wonder about eibachs and lowering caps with 3/4" front and 1" spacers? does anyone have these set up? any comments?

 

[SYNFULL]

Are the spacers necessary to lower it that much, or are they just for looks?
BTW car looks badass

 

[The_Greg]

Uhhhhhhh... that car is sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxy!!!

 

[bmw2nv2000]

I just now got over the depression of selling this one and someone has to drag this thread up The spacers just give the great looking oem wheel a more aggressive offset like it should have been from the factory. I wish I could have this one back soooo bad but the fella that bought it wont sell it back to me.
ViperCobra Im pretty sure you could do spacers with eibachs/caps. Def a 3/4" spacer front and rear will work fine.

 

[Rdiffee08]

Took some time today to snap a few pics. I had some hub and wheel centric spacers made. I went with 3/4" front and 1" rear spacers. The wheel spacers(along with the new slammed stance) have really changed the whole look of the car. The factory 5 spokes look so much more aggressive when flushed with the fenders.

The front moton canisters are just zip tied to the crossmember for now(still have to find time to install the front mounts).

The next time I post updated pics the car will have a completely different look!!!

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Were those bolt on spacers? Or slide and you installed longer studs? Thanks!!