Need Your Detailing Opinions

[Nader]

I am doing some research on the best way to remove swirl marks on a 2004 Black Viper. While the paint is in great shape the swirl marks annoy the Sh_t out of me. It is about time I learn how to detail a car properly instead of just throwing some wax on it. Now I already own a porter cable orbital and looking for the best system to remove swirls and create the deepest shine.

I have looked into Mothers, Mcguires and Griots. My preference over the years has been Zaino but they dont have much to deal with Swirl other than just filling them in.

Out of the three I have found Griots to be the most informative but that doesnt mean crap if it doesnt work.

Can someone here give me some suggestions or input?

This is going to be my winter project and want to start soon.

Thanks for your input.

Tom

 

[bbirch]

I have had very good results with Griot's products such as the clay bar, orbital polishing and wax system. I use the Best of Show Wax. Just make sure that the finish is clean and free of tar before using the clay bar and use the Speed Shine lubricant with it. I resisted the power polisher and clay bar for a long time and then gave in. The results were worth it.
While the orbital isn't likely to burn thru the paint, there can be scratches that only a direct line buffer can get out..........but that takes someone trained to run one.

Hope this helps out. Good project for winter, I have the same plans.

 

[GBS]

I personally like Menzerna or Optimum Polymer Technologies polishes the best for removing swirls. I really like the way the Menzerna finishing polishes jewels up the paint. The Porter Cable will work it just takes a lot longer than using a rotary or one of the better random orbital polishers like the Flex XC 3401. I recently polished my 02 ACR. I hope to find time to polish my black Z06 in the next few weeks.

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[Sittingbull101]

Check this

 

[01sapphirebob]

I use the griots products and love them. I'm looking to do the same thing you are. My '01 is in desperate need.

I am doing some research on the best way to remove swirl marks on a 2004 Black Viper. While the paint is in great shape the swirl marks annoy the Sh_t out of me. It is about time I learn how to detail a car properly instead of just throwing some wax on it. Now I already own a porter cable orbital and looking for the best system to remove swirls and create the deepest shine.

I have looked into Mothers, Mcguires and Griots. My preference over the years has been Zaino but they dont have much to deal with Swirl other than just filling them in.

Out of the three I have found Griots to be the most informative but that doesnt mean crap if it doesnt work.

Can someone here give me some suggestions or input?

This is going to be my winter project and want to start soon.

Thanks for your input.

Tom

 

[Brian GTS]

If you want to use a Zaino product, get Fusion. It is a slightly abrasive compound and does not "hide" swirl marks. I've used it with my Porter Cable orbital. Depending on the severity, it may take a few passes, but it does work quite well.

 

[BlackSnake99]

I will probably get this come springtime.

XMT Light Swirl Remover Complete Kit by Pinnacle: For dual action and rotary polishers.

 

[Richard Koch]

I am another believer in the Griot's products. I have used lots of different products such as Souveran paste wax and Pinnacle products but like Griot's better.

I have learned how to use their orbital polisher and the #3 and #4 polishes. They are extremely fine and if you use them per the instructions you will really improve the finish on your car. I use the Best In Show wax putting on 1 coat, waiting a couple of hours (without wiping it off), putting a second coat and waiting 2 hours, and then I put a final coat on and leave it over night. I wipe it off the next morning with a microfiber cloth and it is awesome. I also use their Speed shine for quick detailing at shows.

My black 1999 RT-10 which has 72,000 miles on it passes for a newly repainted car now.

 

[GBS]

Zaino calls a lot of their products polishes when they are really sealants. They may temporarily hide swirls marks but they're not going to remove them.

I've used polishes by Griots and Pinnacle XMT but they don't compare to Menzerna or Optimum IMO. Any abbrasive polish will remove swirls marks when using a cutting pad and polisher but some finish off much better then others, work faster and create less dust. Both Pinnacle and Griot's do make some great products but I wouldn't put their polishes at the top of the list. I really like Pinnacle waxes.

Check this

Swissvax makes some great waxes but no polishes. Their cleaner fluids do contain some light abbrasives but they are only going to remove some very light swirls marks.

 

[Canyon707]

3m makes a product for black paint. works well to remove swirl marks. I used a portor cable random with a mquires foam pad. Took a while but its near perfect.

 

[01ACR/VIPER]

TURBOWAX...The best I have used so far.

 

[Tito Tw]

My two cents if I may…..

It’s great that you will tackle this project as a winter project, since it’s a project and the winter usually lasts a while. This will allow you to work at a slow pace by panels. You have purchased the tool, the porter cable, while there’s other brands of machines on the market I’m sure that you will find the results very rewarding.

As the book said,”Theres many ways to skin a cat” so I’m taking the liberty to provide some input and steps that have worked for me in the past.

Some of the most common ways to induce swirl marks onto your surface:

1- Automatic Car washes
2- Wrong type of Microfiber towel
3- Wrong type of wax product.
4- Wrong type of pads
5- Wrong type of machine
6- Harsh polishing compounds
7- Not keeping your wash mitt or sponge properly rinsed.
8- Wiping down a dusty or dirty car with a dry towel.
9- Towels and applicators containing polyester threads.
10- A dirty chamois or a chamois that has not been properly maintained
11- Using a car cover when the car or the cover is not clean.
12- Wrong type of shampoo

The first thing will be to wash the car, since this is going to be a project, I suggest we start from ground zero, removing all of the previous wax from the surface. It’s extremely important to do this since there’s many ways to do so, via clay bar or similar product, there are companies that sell a product just to remove the car wax or the conventional way that so many people praise, which the product manufacture is against doing so the dishwashing wonder soap product.

Once we have dried the vehicle our next step is to evaluate the condition of the surface we are going to work with. If the vehicle is outside with direct sun light you should be able to see that some areas are worse than others and if the vehicle is inside the garage you may need the aid of additional lights to pinpoint the more severe areas. In either way, once you have located them, take a small piece of “painters tape” cut a small piece and place on the affected area, this will help as a guide of the areas that will need more attention.

Sample of swirl marks under the direct sun light.

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Sample under the lights

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Next step will be to wipe the entire surface with Isopropyl alcohol (IPA) a mix of 50/50 alcohol/water mixture to remove waxes and oils prior to start our work.

Next we want to tape delicate areas, things like emblems, plastic trim etc, the purpose for doing this is to avoid any contact between the pad and that surface which can damage the pad the surface or both. I like to use 1 inch and 2 inch painters blue tape.

Sample of taping.

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Next we need to figure out what pad (s) we will use. Since we will be working with the Porter Cable the most suitable pads will be foam pads.

The most common colors in the industry are;

Yellow Foam Pad- Use for Heavy duty Compound
Orange Foam Pad- Use for Light duty compound
White Foam Pad- Use for Polish
Green Foam Pad- Use for Compound/Polish
Black Foam Pad- Use for machine Glaze
Blue Foam Pad- Use for Polish/Sealant

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Next we will need the product of your choice, depending on the condition and severity of the swirl marks more than one product may be needed, most of the time you can start with a good quality Swirl Remover and from there step up to a compound if needed.

Few samples of what I have been able to accomplish with foam pads and Swirl remover, one of the most important steps is the pad selection, as an example if you start with an orange foam pad and you don’t see good results then try with a yellow foam pad, it may take you a few steps to find the correct combination but don’t get frustrated.

Before

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After

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Before

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After

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From here we can start the process

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Swirl Remover works best when applied with a polisher. Polish with a light cutting pad on your Porter Cable 7424 dual action polisher. Start at a speed of 5 and use moderate pressure to go over a 2 x 2 sq. ft. area. Work up and down, then side to side to ensure optimum coverage. Buff using a Microfiber Towel.

Some general guideless

Prior to turning the polisher on, ensure that the buffing pad is in contact with the surface and Before lifting the machine from the surface make sure the machine is off.

With new pads I like to spray a mist of detailer into the pad

Choose your product to be in use.

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Apply 3 dime size dots to the pad surface (In this case I was working with larger areas so I used 3 quarter size dots.)

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Work on small sections at a time. We like to work on 2x2 areas
Overlap the passes you can use the product as a guideline
Move the machine across surface slow
Settings, I like to start at 4.0 and eventually get to 6.0, usually between 5.0 and 6.0 you will get good results, I work a lot with the setting at 5.0 and at times at 4.0 moving very slow.
You may want to run the electrical cord through your shoulder if you are standing up to avoid any contact with the surface.
Have plenty of quality micro fiber towels available.

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Place one hand on the top of the machine and hold the pad flat to the surface and apply firm downward pressure 15 to 20 pounds of pressure.

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Wipe product residue with a Microfiber towel. Fold the towel in 4-ways with aims to always have a clean side.

Clean you pad as you go, I like to clean mine after each panel. Depending on the product you have, you may have todo it more often as some products produce more dust build up than others.

You may need to repeat the steps depending on the condition of the surface, if all that fails then there’s a need to step to a more aggressive compound.

Sample of black cars that we have been able to do with the above describe procedure.

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I hope this helps,and remember,it’s NOT the Arrow, it’s the Indian that makes the successful catch.

 

[Tito Tw]

Sample of the procedure

Tools for the job

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Our vehicle 2005 self made swirls marks that’s correct we made them

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The result of the self made swirls

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50/50 wipe down

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Orange Pad and Product

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4 small dots of product

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Speed setting at 6.0

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During operation

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Some Car Wax applied by hand

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End Result just with the Swirl remover and orange pad

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[TrackAire]

Tito,

You mentioned cleaning the pad after every panel...how are you cleaning it? Rinsing it out, using a brush, etc?

Thanks for the detailed input.

Cheers,
George

 

[Tito Tw]

Hello George, Thank you,

Depending on the product(S) that will dictate how often you should clean them.

Our Foam pads should last in between 15 - 20 uses if caring of the pads is utilized.

How do I care for foam pads you may ask?

Periodically clean foam pads with a nylon bristle brush to remove polish build-up.

If build-up is heavy, rinse foam pad in a sink with water and mid soap.

Ring out excess water and polish.Air dry and never put in dryer

I hope this helps

 

[Nader]

Wow great write up. I appreciate that. It is obvious that your swirl remover has an abrasive agent in it. How can I be sure to get the right coverage? What is the normal amount of time to spend on a panel or an area? Also is it true that Clay removes wax? I just thought it removed the contaminates stuck on top of the paint surface?

My two cents if I may…..

It’s great that you will tackle this project as a winter project, since it’s a project and the winter usually lasts a while. This will allow you to work at a slow pace by panels. You have purchased the tool, the porter cable, while there’s other brands of machines on the market I’m sure that you will find the results very rewarding.

As the book said,”Theres many ways to skin a cat” so I’m taking the liberty to provide some input and steps that have worked for me in the past.

Some of the most common ways to induce swirl marks onto your surface:

1- Automatic Car washes
2- Wrong type of Microfiber towel
3- Wrong type of wax product.
4- Wrong type of pads
5- Wrong type of machine
6- Harsh polishing compounds
7- Not keeping your wash mitt or sponge properly rinsed.
8- Wiping down a dusty or dirty car with a dry towel.
9- Towels and applicators containing polyester threads.
10- A dirty chamois or a chamois that has not been properly maintained
11- Using a car cover when the car or the cover is not clean.
12- Wrong type of shampoo

The first thing will be to wash the car, since this is going to be a project, I suggest we start from ground zero, removing all of the previous wax from the surface. It’s extremely important to do this since there’s many ways to do so, via clay bar or similar product, there are companies that sell a product just to remove the car wax or the conventional way that so many people praise, which the product manufacture is against doing so the dishwashing wonder soap product.

Once we have dried the vehicle our next step is to evaluate the condition of the surface we are going to work with. If the vehicle is outside with direct sun light you should be able to see that some areas are worse than others and if the vehicle is inside the garage you may need the aid of additional lights to pinpoint the more severe areas. In either way, once you have located them, take a small piece of “painters tape” cut a small piece and place on the affected area, this will help as a guide of the areas that will need more attention.

Sample of swirl marks under the direct sun light.

You must be registered for see images attach

Sample under the lights

You must be registered for see images attach

Next step will be to wipe the entire surface with Isopropyl alcohol (IPA) a mix of 50/50 alcohol/water mixture to remove waxes and oils prior to start our work.

Next we want to tape delicate areas, things like emblems, plastic trim etc, the purpose for doing this is to avoid any contact between the pad and that surface which can damage the pad the surface or both. I like to use 1 inch and 2 inch painters blue tape.

Sample of taping.

You must be registered for see images attach

Next we need to figure out what pad (s) we will use. Since we will be working with the Porter Cable the most suitable pads will be foam pads.

The most common colors in the industry are;

Yellow Foam Pad- Use for Heavy duty Compound
Orange Foam Pad- Use for Light duty compound
White Foam Pad- Use for Polish
Green Foam Pad- Use for Compound/Polish
Black Foam Pad- Use for machine Glaze
Blue Foam Pad- Use for Polish/Sealant

You must be registered for see images attach

Next we will need the product of your choice, depending on the condition and severity of the swirl marks more than one product may be needed, most of the time you can start with a good quality Swirl Remover and from there step up to a compound if needed.

Few samples of what I have been able to accomplish with foam pads and Swirl remover, one of the most important steps is the pad selection, as an example if you start with an orange foam pad and you don’t see good results then try with a yellow foam pad, it may take you a few steps to find the correct combination but don’t get frustrated.

Before

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After

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Before

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After

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From here we can start the process

You must be registered for see images attach

Swirl Remover works best when applied with a polisher. Polish with a light cutting pad on your Porter Cable 7424 dual action polisher. Start at a speed of 5 and use moderate pressure to go over a 2 x 2 sq. ft. area. Work up and down, then side to side to ensure optimum coverage. Buff using a Microfiber Towel.

Some general guideless

Prior to turning the polisher on, ensure that the buffing pad is in contact with the surface and Before lifting the machine from the surface make sure the machine is off.

With new pads I like to spray a mist of detailer into the pad

Choose your product to be in use.

You must be registered for see images attach

Apply 3 dime size dots to the pad surface (In this case I was working with larger areas so I used 3 quarter size dots.)

You must be registered for see images attach

Work on small sections at a time. We like to work on 2x2 areas
Overlap the passes you can use the product as a guideline
Move the machine across surface slow
Settings, I like to start at 4.0 and eventually get to 6.0, usually between 5.0 and 6.0 you will get good results, I work a lot with the setting at 5.0 and at times at 4.0 moving very slow.
You may want to run the electrical cord through your shoulder if you are standing up to avoid any contact with the surface.
Have plenty of quality micro fiber towels available.

You must be registered for see images attach

Place one hand on the top of the machine and hold the pad flat to the surface and apply firm downward pressure 15 to 20 pounds of pressure.

You must be registered for see images attach

Wipe product residue with a Microfiber towel. Fold the towel in 4-ways with aims to always have a clean side.

Clean you pad as you go, I like to clean mine after each panel. Depending on the product you have, you may have todo it more often as some products produce more dust build up than others.

You may need to repeat the steps depending on the condition of the surface, if all that fails then there’s a need to step to a more aggressive compound.

Sample of black cars that we have been able to do with the above describe procedure.

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You must be registered for see images attach

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I hope this helps,and remember,it’s NOT the Arrow, it’s the Indian that makes the successful catch.

 

[sirhc76]

Autopia - Autopia Home

Several companies use the same re branded product with different fragrances in them. I can tell you first hand that pinnacle works well, I have used both Menzerna and pinnacle to remove fine swirls on several cars. Read the boards with an understanding that all products are flavor of the month. Someone with a little "board cred" posts on product XYZ and everyone is then buying it. I switched to Clearkote products during one of these trends and have been happy with all their products thus far. Also keep in mind that certain products lend to better finishes on specific colors. I have used Clearkote on a black Z06 and it looked decent, would of preferred more depth.

I would go easy if you start with an orange pad and have never used a PC. You can burn CC with them using a PC, been there done that. I do not ring out my pads, the backing will separate from the foam, again been there done that. You should wash, rinse sling it dry then mount the pad back to the PC and spin dry it letting it sit face down on a clean MF towel to finish drying. Throw any pad that ever touches the ground into the trash. I demote sponges and MF towels that touch the ground to undercarriage duty.

As mentioned Best way to not see marring and swirls is to prevent them. I'm not a big fan of rinse less washing although it seems to be the trend. I use the hyped multi bucket method and make sure the lower half of the car is never washed using the same buckets or sponges as the hood doors and roof. My micro fiber towels are washed alone and air dried. I wash the car using short straight strokes, rinsing the sponge often. I air dry the car with a leaf blower leaving and follow up with quick detailer on a MF towel that has been sprayed with QD. I never touch my paint with a dry MF towel even after it was just washed. I never touch my paint with anything when it has dust on it. Keep a good coat of wax and or sealer on the paint which.

These are all my opinions and like arseholes everyone has one. The first few pics in this album were from when I first bought my GTS. You can see the finish that the prior owner had established and the areas that an orange pad and Pinnacle worked. The last few were after my spring detail this year.

Spring Detail pictures by sirhc76 - Photobucket

 

[Simms]

Awesome write up Tito! Thanks!

 

[Tito Tw]

I'd like to add a few things

Clay bar
Clay is a mixture of clay base and various mild abrasives. Clay along with a clay lubricant is used to remove paint contamination. Spray wax, window cleaner or water can work as a clay lubricant. Road grime, tar, bugs, rust, tree sap and even paint over spray can be removed with a clay bar.

Clay bars differ in color and density but what is most important is the type and amount of abrasive particles they contain. All clay bars will be labeled from "mild" to "strong" abrasive quality. Claying does not remove the clear coat of the paint but can cause marring or dullness if used incorrectly. When using a clay bar sufficient lubrication must be present to avoid scratching the paint.

Just so you know we have a similar product to clay.

It takes a few passes of clay to feel the difference on the surface of the paint. To evaluate the effectiveness of claying dry the area and assess the paint and the bar. The paint should become slick to touch. The clay bar used should be turning gray. If the clay bar is dropped it must be discarded. The clay bar should be folded over frequently to expose clean surface. Claying does not replace polishing. It is a process that should be used before polishing compound is used.

One huge misconception is that all of them are the same they are not,period.

Regarding the time per panel it depends on surface and the condition, sorry I don't have a specific time.

How can I be sure to get the right coverage?

If you work on small areas you can monitor the progress, white painted surfaces are a little harder to follow.

sirhc76

We have to value everyones opinions and respect them a system that my work for one person may not work for some else.

Read the boards with an understanding that all products are flavor of the month. Someone with a little "board cred" posts on product XYZ and everyone is then buying it.

You made my day with that! very true, if you don't fit on that "Elite Group" don't worry no one will mention your products "IF" they do,they're any good any ways.


About the pads

What separates us from others is that we don’t just lay sheets of foam with Velcro and die cut them,our foam pads has recessed backs to protect and eliminate any accidents a technician can do while buffing.

Our new innovative foam pad design is safer and faster. The new design is a recessed back flexible ring permanently glued on the Velcro side so the backing plate is centered on the pad every time. You can center the plate one just one hand in seconds and the center ring prevents the backing plate from cutting threw the foam pad and making contact with the paint. Another benefit of the center ring is that when you have a true centered pad on the polisher the final finish is even and the technician will have less fatigue in their arms.

The face of the center ring pads will have a hexagon cut design which will allow for the chemicals to be distributed better while buffing and keep the heat down as well.

Ring provides instant one hand centering
Ring prevents backing plate cut threw
Ring system is fully washable.

Sample of them

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Thank you for allow me to participate in your thread.

 

[PDCjonny]

Nice job Tito very informative.

 

[PDCjonny]

Autopia - Autopia Home
I would go easy if you start with an orange pad and have never used a PC. You can burn CC with them using a PC, been there done that.

No way.
You can stand on that PC for an hour and you will not burn the paint with an PC orbital sander. The design and orbital pattern prevent exactly that, otherwise every dumbasss that bought one would ruin their paint.

I assume you mean with a rotary sander. The inherent safety built into the orbital sander is also one of it's drawbacks, you will NOT remove any serious scratches or imperfections in the clear with an orbital. Surface scratches yes, but no deep imperfections. Only a rotary will cut into the clear with the right pads and compound and that can be dangerous if you are not proficent as it is possible to burn the paint.

 

[Tito Tw]

Maybe we should take the time to clear this up

Neutral panel, same amount of product, LEFT side will be Porter Cable- Right side Rotary tool

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Porter Cable -orange pad speed setting 6.00 2 minutes

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Rotary Speed setting 6.0 2 minutes

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I hope this helps.

 

[Flying Viper]

What is the difference between dual action and rotary?

I will probably get this come springtime.

XMT Light Swirl Remover Complete Kit by Pinnacle: For dual action and rotary polishers.

 

[FLATOUT]

I use 3 different machines depending on the severity of the swirls.

I use a Flex light weight Rotary
Flex DA
Porter Cable DA

The majority of my correction is done with the Flex DA, gets a ton more done than the Porter cable in less time.

I use Menzerna products for swirl removal as well. I use Menzerna SIP with a LC Orange pad, or purple pad for the stubborn stuff, followed by MIP on an Orange pad, and then Final Finish, or Nano on a white pad on the Rotary to help Jewel the finish.

Hope this helps.

Andy Wheeler

 

[eucharistos]

Some of the most common ways to induce swirl marks onto your surface:

1- Automatic Car washes
2- Wrong type of Microfiber towel
3- Wrong type of wax product.
4- Wrong type of pads
5- Wrong type of machine
6- Harsh polishing compounds
7- Not keeping your wash mitt or sponge properly rinsed.
8- Wiping down a dusty or dirty car with a dry towel.
9- Towels and applicators containing polyester threads.
10- A dirty chamois or a chamois that has not been properly maintained
11- Using a car cover when the car or the cover is not clean.
12- Wrong type of shampoo

thanks for much good info

some examples, explanation of the red please

 

[GBS]

I use 3 different machines depending on the severity of the swirls.

I use a Flex light weight Rotary
Flex DA
Porter Cable DA

The majority of my correction is done with the Flex DA, gets a ton more done than the Porter cable in less time.

I use Menzerna products for swirl removal as well. I use Menzerna SIP with a LC Orange pad, or purple pad for the stubborn stuff, followed by MIP on an Orange pad, and then Final Finish, or Nano on a white pad on the Rotary to help Jewel the finish.

Hope this helps.

Andy Wheeler

Andy,

I would have to agree with your assessment of the Porter Cable. The Porter Cable will remove swirls using a cutting pad and polish it just takes a lot more time and doesn't do the greatest job. I would estimate I can polish a car twice as fast using my Flex DA and about three times as fast using my Metabo rotary. Not only does the Flex DA or any rotary do the job much faster than the Porter Cable DA I feel they also seem to jewel the paint better. There are a lot of abrasive polishes on the market that will remove swirls when used with a cutting pad and polisher. A lot of them don't work that great with a weak polisher like the Porter Cable.

One thing I like about Menzerna polishes is their use diminishing abrasives in a number of their polishes. The micro abrasives breakdown into finer particles as you work the polish. This gives you an initial strong cut to make quick work of swirls and light scratches than it breaks down into finer particles to jewel the paint.

 

[sirhc76]

No way.
You can stand on that PC for an hour and you will not burn the paint with an PC orbital sander. The design and orbital pattern prevent exactly that, otherwise every dumbasss that bought one would ruin their paint.

I assume you mean with a rotary sander. The inherent safety built into the orbital sander is also one of it's drawbacks, you will NOT remove any serious scratches or imperfections in the clear with an orbital. Surface scratches yes, but no deep imperfections. Only a rotary will cut into the clear with the right pads and compound and that can be dangerous if you are not proficent as it is possible to burn the paint.

I presume you are stating 1st hand facts not word round the campfire. I invite you over to see my hood and the clear that is burnt in a place about 1'x1". Noob mistake using a 6.5in yellow pad and an aggressive compound via porter cable. I should re state burn CC, don't know about paint as I didn't get that far

I'm not debating rotary to ROB, not even in the same ball park. Rotary will straight strip paint down to the base material.

It would be safe to say that an ROB is a very useful tool in anyone's arsenal. I have stated this before. Please GOOGLE Kevin Brown Method if you don't think a PC can remove RIDS and swirls. I actually saved everyone the work.

Presidential Detailed: Can you say Kevin Brown Method? - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

Tito I do like the looks of your pads as I'm not happy with the fact that my LCC pads tend to separate from the Velcro backing. When I deplete my current stock Ill look into them.

 

[PDCjonny]

A lot of them don't work that great with a weak polisher like the Porter Cable.

That's my point. It's like comparing a home center product to a professional product. Yes, the PC will get out very superficial surface scratches in the clear with some effort, but you have to use a professional tool properly to realy attack a defect. I have a PC and it works ok for it's intended use, but NO comparison to a powerful rotary buffer.

The PC is for a weekend "hobbyist".

 

[impalassed]

Nader-
I've used the Griots products for years now. Great for us car enthusiasts types. The most challenging finish I had to work with using Griots polishes was on my Daily Driver Tahoe I purchased used with 87,000 on the clock. To give you an idea of what I had to start with the Tahoe had seen its fair share of winters in Pittsburgh and Chicago as well as a good dose of automatic car washes... need I say more! While the deep scratches were just too deep to remove, the swirl marks and 90% of the scratches were removed easily* using the Griots system. Since your Viper (nor mine) has not been tortured as my Tahoe, I'd venture to say its paint is not nearly as bad. Get the #3 polish and since its a black car the #4 as well, a couple of orange pads and give it a try (after a wash an clay bar treatment first). Suggest 2 passes with the #3 polish and one with #4. Follow up with the Best of Show as others have suggested here. I don't think you will be disappointed.

* I say easily for it was not hard to do but it was time consuming. I started with the #1 polish and it removed a lot of the deeper scratches as well as eliminating the medium and fine scratches. However it is a pretty harsh polish that left the surface "rough". Following up with the #2 polish removed the rough look. I followed up with #2 again for good measure and then the One-Step Sealant (formerly called called Paint Sealant). Its basically a wax and #3 polish in one bottle. 25 hours from wash to finish to give you an idea of the time involved.

 

[Nader]

Thanks. This was exactly the type of information I was looking for. Happy Thanksgiving.

Tom

Nader-
I've used the Griots products for years now. Great for us car enthusiasts types. The most challenging finish I had to work with using Griots polishes was on my Daily Driver Tahoe I purchased used with 87,000 on the clock. To give you an idea of what I had to start with the Tahoe had seen its fair share of winters in Pittsburgh and Chicago as well as a good dose of automatic car washes... need I say more! While the deep scratches were just too deep to remove, the swirl marks and 90% of the scratches were removed easily* using the Griots system. Since your Viper (nor mine) has not been tortured as my Tahoe, I'd venture to say its paint is not nearly as bad. Get the #3 polish and since its a black car the #4 as well, a couple of orange pads and give it a try (after a wash an clay bar treatment first). Suggest 2 passes with the #3 polish and one with #4. Follow up with the Best of Show as others have suggested here. I don't think you will be disappointed.

* I say easily for it was not hard to do but it was time consuming. I started with the #1 polish and it removed a lot of the deeper scratches as well as eliminating the medium and fine scratches. However it is a pretty harsh polish that left the surface "rough". Following up with the #2 polish removed the rough look. I followed up with #2 again for good measure and then the One-Step Sealant (formerly called called Paint Sealant). Its basically a wax and #3 polish in one bottle. 25 hours from wash to finish to give you an idea of the time involved.