Nitrous Express 100-300hp shot, $750?...

[Sean Roe]

Hi All,

This past week I received a dealer information packet (unsolicited) from Nitrous Express, www.nitrousexpress.com .
Being a road racer, I don't have much experience with nitrous use, but their kit for the Viper sounds interesting.

It's a "wet" system that gets fuel from the pressure test port to mix with the nitrous when it's on. The kit looks pretty complete and retail is only $769. That's a far cry under some of the other Viper specific nitrous kits out there for $1900.

Anybody have positive or negative experience with this particular kit? I know that Tom at BTR, www.btrviper.com , says in his nitrous/ propane literature that the fuel can puddle in the intake manifold. They "fog" fuel and nitrous with nozzles installed ito the intake smooth tubes. If you shut the nitrous off and ran the motor a few more moments, wouldn't any possible "extra" fuel that may be left in the manifold vaporize? I talked to their techs about it and they say that they don't draw much fuel from the stock fuel rail. It would be easy to do a dyno run with the nitrous on while monitoring fuel pressure and air/fuel ratio to make sure everything was ok.

I'm considering signing up with them and trying one out. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[9 seconds]

I saw some wet NX systems this weekend running low 10's. That NX kit, I believe, does not have a bottle warmer or a 15# bottle.

 

[Tom Welch]

Sean,

It is the design of the intake itself that lends to fuel puddling. Take a look back at the "crossram" design intakes that chrysler has been using since the early days of the Hemi and Max wedge.....look familiar? Many of them have had the same problem, all it takes is a leaky injector. I used to put blow off valves on my crossrams and rat roaster intakes to help with this problem as those ole intakes were several thousand dollars(now they have cast replicas).

Another thing to consider is that you are going to rob fuel from your injectors and give it to the nitrous system. Peter and Paul. A gasoline wet system might work should a better source of fuel delivery be discovered. If anyone can find it, you are that person.

Personaly, i like the safety factor of high octane, detonation eliminating propane and its ease of installation, along with all the other great features worthy of a car like the viper.

Does the NX kit have a 15lb bottle with high flow valve and gauge?, Bottle heater? electronic activation?, extra fuel enrichment?, wiring harness? solenoids rated to 500 hp? Add on the above items for a more realistic price comparison...and guess what....your still stuck with low octane gasoline that the engine itself will need when hit with an extra 200 hp.

Just my $ .02......Believe me, if it could be done cheaper Id be doing it!

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[9 seconds]

Jeff,
I have the BTR system an ran 10.96 @ 132. I have K&N's, tubes, a Borla cat-back, and stock Pilots. Where were you? Parked in the back 40 I guess. I can't believe they booked an autocross and drag racing the same day. I recorded the best numbers from some of the faster guys and sent them to Prashant. The Houston club had one 9 second car and five 10 second cars. See you in Dallas in a couple of weeks.

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

Sean -
The kit you are referring to is somewhat of a complete system....

We have compiled years of experience utilizing nitrous oxide for Viper and non Viper installations.

The NX system is a very good one and can be used quite safely utilizing the lower horsepower levels.

The puddling you are referring to is not as much a factor at engine shutdown as would be during operation.

Excessive fuel present in the intake can be ignited unexpectedly by certain conditions that may be present from pre-throttle body nitrous applications.

One of just a few causes are from Direct Ignition commonly known as DIS.
Most DIS units are of the inductive discharge type. They use a double ended, isolated coil which fires one cylinder on the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke simultaneously. This is referred to as a waste spark strategy. The excessive raw fuel puddled in the exhaust ports can be ignited during the exhaust stroke. This factor would be more enhanced with a more aggressive cam. Higher lift and more duration cams allow valves to stay open longer commonly know as "valve over lap." The problem with this can cause the puddled fuel to be drawn from the intake manifold by the downward stroke of the piston during the exhaust stroke, keeping in mind DIS fires the coils during the exhaust stroke too. The excessive fuel drawn into the cylinder on the exhaust stoke can be ignited creating a dreaded "back fire."

There are several ways to combat this phenomenon and I will keep you abreast on these solutions.

We are working on so many great products that will enhance safety and power for nitrous applications. These products can be installed to current nitrous systems or while creating your own custom nitrous system.

A basic overview of our products soon to be available will be:
A rpm activation switch that will remove ignition timing depending on the selected chip. A fuel pressure controller that will increase fuel pressure on wet systems that utilize the factory fuel rail for fuel... This unit will not allow any significant drop in fuel pressure during nitrous activation.

We have so many more products available to you or any others that are considering/using nitrous oxide.

Best Regards,
Doug Levin

 

[LTHL VPR]

Sean-
I have done quite a bit of research and some testing on the kits out there. Here are some of my results, recommendations, and opinions:

1) N.O.S. kit- Dry system. In theory, this should work well. They offer a fuel enrichment box that taps into ECU sensors. I don't think they did sound R&D on the system, and this 'box' didn't work well at all on my 98 GTS. In fact, under dyno conditions the box did not start enriching the A/F mixture over stock until about 4800 rpms. Therefore, your A/F ration would peak at 14-15 before then. Not good. In addition, I would never use them again...poor customer service. They are also owned by Holley now. I think the total install time is about 8-10 hours


2)N.O.S/Propane system- Dry system. Should work better than plain NOS system. Seems to be much more expensive than NOS system and I bleive the primary differences are a propane tank and an extra line and some wiring. Someone I know recently installed it. Since it was not designed froma manufacturer as a kit for the Viper, install time seemed very long. Upon testing, A/F was higher than expected; thus even more dyno time was necessary in order to find a safe range. I know some custom brackets. etc had to be made, and at the end of the day the system seems to work good and they found a safe A/F ratio. Unfortunately, I think the install ran over 25hrs. In the end, the kit does work well. I don't know how safe I would feel with propane and nitrous in my trunk right next to the gas tank though. I would pray never to be rear ended.

3)Nitrous express kit- Wet system. Complete kit. I have heard from others on the board the install is easy; the least of the bunch at under 8hours. This kit is also the most inexpensive of the bunch; around $750 or so (I think the N.O.S. plain dry kit can be found at about $1000-$1100). For another $250 you get a heater, and a host of other safe goodies. The heater from NX is MUCh better than that from N.O.S. It is pressure sensitive and heats the bottle quickly. I had a number of problems with the heater from N.O.S. I have seen several dyno reports and the A/F ratio was safe and rich right out of the box. The curve did not seem to indicate that fuel was being robbed from the injectors. I believe the fuel pressure drops about 1-2psi for the first moment the system is turned on and then immediatley richens up thereafter. But even during that moment the A.F ratio only increase about .5, then drops to around 12.
Overall, I would lean towards this system. Seems to be the easiest to install, the least expensive, and seems to run in a safe range. Wayne Skiles I think has used this system for many thousands of miles and refills without problem. I have heard that on heavily modified engines (heads, cam, intake, etc..) the fuel delivery can become a problem, but with basic bolt-ons such as headers, exhuast, etc.. I haven't heard of one.

Hope this helps!

 

[9 seconds]

Try this site for more nitrous express info. http://www.nitrouswarehouse.com/fuel.htm
I spoke with John at an auto show. If you E-mail NX with Viper questions (like I did) they will tell you to ask Roy at TNT.

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Segal:
does anyone know the part # for the Nitrous Express kit?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Steve -
We are a NX dealer and would be happy to supply you with a system.
Or, you may contact me at the shop and I can get you the part number.

Regards,
Doug

 

[SEASNAKE]

I did some testing with this system. With the lowest jets (what they call 100HP), The fuel pressure dropped around .5 psi. With the 200 HP jets, the fuel pressure dropped around 2 psi to 52 and A/F ratios were in the 7 range. The bottle heater worked very well. I would recommend getting all the safety products you can. No system is completely foolproof and everything you do to keep yourself from making a stupid mistake is money well spent.

Doug,
Make it idiotproof and they'll make better idiots!

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

The standard viper kit Nitrous Express system part # is 20325. If anyone is looking for any I have all this in stock at great prices.We also have bottle warmers, blankets, and all misc. goods. Good stuff, as Jeff said I have done a lot with this system and have some great ideas on how to better it. email me direct and I will give more info. thanks

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

Hi SEASNAKE,
I wasn't sure about the 7 A/F ratio you are referring to. Are you using a DRB to read the ratio, or ?

BTW - Very nice car ... what color stripes are those?

 

[Newport Viper]

Can I have NOS bottle and small carry bag of golf clubs in my RT/10 trunk? I am serious.

 

[SEASNAKE]

The A/F ratios were from the Dyno, measured out of the exhaust. This was very rich.

 

[Sean Roe]

Well there certainly seems to be plenty of interest in these kits.
Ok Albert, Doug, etc., what prices are you advertising the kits at?
I'm thinking of becoming one of their warehouse distributors and doing some testing. Some dyno time with nitrous, a scan tool and our engine calibrator might be fun. Could make an interesting package

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[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SEASNAKE:
The A/F ratios were from the Dyno, measured out of the exhaust. This was very rich.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thx - Understood,
The dyno is one of the best ways to measure A/F.
We use a Lambda A/F meter that gives us full data acquisition and compare with EGTs to find our happy medium for our nitrous or force induction cars.

Shawn - We sell the complete NX system for $299.00

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. Actually, we like to sell a complete installed system.... I believe the system is only as good as the installation. It's really a good system and would be an asset to your catalogue.

Regards,
Doug

 

[Sean Roe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Supercharged Vipers:

Shawn - We sell the complete NX system for $299.00

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.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right on Dug!

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That's the way to take care of our fellow VCA'ers! No need for me to offer them when you can provide them at such a great price.
I'll call you today to buy one for myself.

 

[LTHL VPR]

Doug-
You sell the NX kit for ONLY $299?
How do you do it?
I'll take one!
How much do you sell the GEN-X option for?
Thanks!

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

HUH ? 299.00 Sign me up, We have been selling these below retail at 750.00 shipped. 299.00 is less than half of cost?

 

[SEASNAKE]

I do believe Doug was fibbing a little on that price. The cheapest I found for the DIY guy, was at the Nitrous Warehouse. The only down side is trying to get off the phone with John Stewart. The price was around $730 + another $300 for the GEN X kit.

I've seen a GTS with this system using the "150" jets run 11.0/130+ on stock tires. Very similar to other systems sold on this site, without putting a potentially explosive device in the trunk. A street car with propane in the trunk just gives me the *******.

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

AFR of 7:1? That's so rich, I'm surprised the car even made any power. Our dyno's lowest AFR value is 10:1, as anything below that needs to be fixed instantly to keep the car from fouling the plugs. Are you sure it was 7:1?

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean Roe:
Right on Dug!

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That's the way to take care of our fellow VCA'ers! No need for me to offer them when you can provide them at such a great price.
I'll call you today to buy one for myself.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry about the misspell Sean

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, no disrespect intended.

And of course when I said the nitrous system costs $299.00,
I was tuning it into a "spoof," sorta like a Viper engine costs $300.00 dollars, but the installation costs $13K.

Oh boy... I paid the price for that one.... We got a lot of email for it

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.
I never intended to mislead anyone, just meant to make a funny!

Regards,
Doug

 

[Sean Roe]

Doug,

Are you sure you can't sell them at your advertised price of $299? You know, when K-Mart has a typo in an ad that reads "diet soda $2.79 a case" when it should read "diet soda $3.29 a case", the store usually honors the advertised prices. Are you sssuuuurrreee you can't sell it at that price? Ok, where's the manager???!!!

Just kidding.

So, what's your real price?
I'm starting to look pretty hard at this dealer application and maybe even the master warehouse distributor level.

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