I think I should add that Reds are the new APPLICATION for the Viper, they are not "actually" the new greens... totally different formulations all around.
NOT pleased with EBC red's...after 500 miles.
- Thread starter Newport Viper
- Start date
good post, thanks
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
X-Metal,
You are quite welcome,
Robbie
You are quite welcome,
Robbie
Actually, Robbie is incorrect in his postings.
-The Red pads are Kevlar/Ceramic, not the Yellow Pads.
-The Yellow Pads are Aramid.
-The Yellow Pads do NOT have cold friction issues, and work perfectly fine on the street.
-The Red pads are Kevlar/Ceramic, not the Yellow Pads.
-The Yellow Pads are Aramid.
-The Yellow Pads do NOT have cold friction issues, and work perfectly fine on the street.
Not entirely...
Kevlar *is* an Aramid fiber, but it is just a trademarked name for a particular type, there are many other types of aramid fibers (Para/meta aramids, etc)
Since EBC uses both Kevlar and Aramid in their descriptions as a separate entity, I would expect they are utilizing another fiber type in their Yellow pads, not the Kevlar variation used in combination with ceramic in the Red pads.
Saying Kevlar and aramid, and acting like they mean different things is like saying Campbells and soup and insinuating there is a difference. Campbells is a soup. But not all soup is made by Campbells. Kevlar is an aramid. All aramids are not made by Dupont. Though Dupont makes 3 basic types of Kevlar and the post above did not specify which is used. So it is impossible to understand why the brand name is used once and a the generic term in another place.
Without anything stating a difference I would assume they used the generic term in one place and the trade name in another and that is it. The way you stated it may tell the uninformed that one is aramid and the other isn't. Obviously both are and that would be an incorrect interpretation. That is all I was trying to say.
Without anything stating a difference I would assume they used the generic term in one place and the trade name in another and that is it. The way you stated it may tell the uninformed that one is aramid and the other isn't. Obviously both are and that would be an incorrect interpretation. That is all I was trying to say.
And all that I am trying to say is that there IS different types of Aramid fibers.
Since EBC uses both terms depending on the application, I would expect that they are using the Kevlar brand for one application, and another type in a different application- thus, different pad base compounds as a result. Kevlar is a Para-Aramid, they may very well be using a different aramid from the meta family or something else in the other pads.
All I am trying to say is that just because they have the same base compound name, doesnt mean they are the same thing- and it cannot be determined for certain that they are the same, so I am taking the default position that they are different compounds being used, and they listed it like that on purpose.
I am not trying to prove you wrong, we are both right- its just different ways of looking at what EBC listed and why. My original point was that Racer Robbie listed the Yellow pads as Kevlar- and there is no place on EBC's site that they indeed are, they are just in the aramid family. He also listed the yellow pads as having cold issues- they dont.
If I had said the Red pads were Aramid when they were indeed Kevlar (an aramid), I could see your point. But that only comes into play when climbing the molecular ladder backwards... Kevlar IS an aramid, but an aramid is not necessarily Kevlar.
Since EBC uses both terms depending on the application, I would expect that they are using the Kevlar brand for one application, and another type in a different application- thus, different pad base compounds as a result. Kevlar is a Para-Aramid, they may very well be using a different aramid from the meta family or something else in the other pads.
All I am trying to say is that just because they have the same base compound name, doesnt mean they are the same thing- and it cannot be determined for certain that they are the same, so I am taking the default position that they are different compounds being used, and they listed it like that on purpose.
I am not trying to prove you wrong, we are both right- its just different ways of looking at what EBC listed and why. My original point was that Racer Robbie listed the Yellow pads as Kevlar- and there is no place on EBC's site that they indeed are, they are just in the aramid family. He also listed the yellow pads as having cold issues- they dont.
If I had said the Red pads were Aramid when they were indeed Kevlar (an aramid), I could see your point. But that only comes into play when climbing the molecular ladder backwards... Kevlar IS an aramid, but an aramid is not necessarily Kevlar.
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Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
I am incorrect in what the material is now made of for EBC pads. They have changed their compounds and I have not updated my website which I will do as soon as possible. It is now true that RED Pads are made of Kevlar and that YELLOW Pads can now be used on the street.
Greenstuff - 2000 Series - Premium Street Pad
Premium street sport pad for cars up to 200bhp. General spirited street driving.Designed for premium street driving offering better brake effect up to 600°C (1100°F). EBC Greenstuff has a high initial brake effect and gives drivers confidence from first application of the brake pedal. There is no such thing as a NO DUST pad. The very nature of how a brake works requires that some dust be generated to avoid rotor vibration (shimmying). The EBC pad creates less dust and dust is more easily washed off than most. All pads create more dust as they are bedding in especially if rotors are worn. Nominal friction coefficient 0.55. For heavier faster cars and vehicles above 200bhp we strongly recommend Redstuff which DOES offer much less dust. http://www.ebcbrakes.com/greenstuffinfo.html
Redstuff Ceramic - 3000 Series - For Highly Tuned Cars and Fast Street
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] This material is a Kevlar® fibre based brake compound enhanced with ceramic particles. If you have previously tried EBC redstuff (pre-ceramic compound) this material is light years ahead. It lasts longer, it brakes better and is quieter. Being a hard wearing pad, bed-in times can be as long as 1000 miles and drivers must be patient until the pad takes up the shape of their disc (brake rotor).[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is a truly impressive fast road pad for repeated heavy braking. It emits far less dust than semi-metallic pads and has been proven to stop a passenger car/sedan/sport compact/hot hatch 13 metres quicker than OEM pads from 100mph/160kph. Features EBC Brake-In surface coating which conditions rotor surface and accelerates pad bed-in. Nominal friction coefficient 0.5 with approx. 50% dust reduction compared to other pads. http://www.ebcbrakes.com/redstuffinfo.html[/FONT]
Yellowstuff - 4000 "R" Series - Full Race Pad
Ultra high friction pads for race use but perfectly safe for street use (Formula 1846).
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Although a full race material and capable of high temperature use with very good wear life, this new formulation sets a new trend in race type brake pad compounds that can be used on the highway. The “bite” from cold is superb which is uncommon with race materials (normally requiring warm-up) and makes this a pad which can be safely used on both street and track. This new formulation has been used by numerous championship race and rally drivers and is truly a milestone in brake pad material development. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nominal friction coefficient 0.5 with zero rotor damage and similar dust to original pads.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.ebcbrakes.com/yellowstuffinfo.html[/FONT]
I hope this clears up any misconceptions,
Robbie
Robbie
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
Purdue_Boiler_Viper
Enthusiast
Hey Robbie or Dan,
Any chance you can tell us when the "reformulations" took place?
Thanks,
Pat
Any chance you can tell us when the "reformulations" took place?
Thanks,
Pat
wallbanger
Enthusiast
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yea robbie i bought my ebc reds from u in March , did i get the old ones or the new ones....
I got a set of the "new" greens (yuck) back in summer '05, so I would say 2 years ago... assuming they all changed at the same time.
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
I believe Final GTS is correct. There is no way to tell on the label but the ones I installed on my viper in 2005 were vastly different and better than the ones I put on back in early 2004.
Robbie
Robbie
