Paxton Automotive: Road to Destruction

2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

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My battle with Paxton Automotive's poorly designed super charger offering for the Gen II Viper, has been a long road. I have finally recovered some of my money back, from the products obvious inability to perform as advertised. The following is a note I sent to my bank to recover the funds spent on Paxton Automotive's Super Charger kit for Gen II Viper:

"I purchased a Paxton Super Charger Kit for my 2002 Dodge Viper (Car) on December 16, 2003 after discussing with Sales associate Kelly Herring from Paxton Automotive Corporation my cars configuration and Paxton's Super Charger offering for my vehicle type. The merchandise arrived on the December 26, 2003. I installed said merchandise per the instruction manual December 26-28, 2003 on my 2002 Dodge Viper. On December 29, 2003 I took the vehicle and newly installed Super Charger kit to Dynometer Testing Facility to accurately and scientifically check my Vehicles operation with said kit installed. The readings done on my vehicle by the test machine indicated that Paxton delivered on the increase in power, but failed to deliver "safe, reliable operation" solution they promised in their advertisement. The engine was being run with dangerously low amounts of fuel (poor Air to Fuel ratio) given the amount of power it was producing. I contacted Paxton regarding this situation, and was assured that a simple fix was in order. Kelly Herring directed me to change the recalibration of my fuel management system, with their supplied recalibration kit. I followed the directions that came with the kit and made the necessary recalibration. Then on 1/17/2004, I once again had my car retested to make sure this recalibration was the solution to the problem. Upon the first test, it was readily apparent the recalibration did little to rectify the situation. I contacted Paxton Automotive Corporation on January 20, 2003 and once again spoke to Kelly Herring regarding my issue. This time Kelly was far less helpful then his previously lacking support had been. I was told that everything was fine and if I needed further insight into this products use and safety that I should contact Mike Adams, a reseller of Paxton Supercharging Kits. Due to the lack of support from Paxton Automotive regarding my concerns, inability to resolve my issue, poor reliability of said product, and eventual damage of my engine from their Super Charger kit, I spoke to Jamie Rabago, Paxton Automotive Corporations Service Manager, in an attempt to receive restitution for defective product. After two weeks of discussions I was told that Paxton Automotive could not assist me, and was not liable for the failure of their product.

In summary, I was promised a "Paxton's new Dodge Viper system is the ultimate for the street in a smog legal bolt-on package" and "Complete fuel system upgrade includes dual high-flow fuel pumps, fuel control unit, fuel lines and wiring harness for safe, reliable operation" Paxton Failed to deliver on the "safe, reliable operation." Due to the Paxton Automotive Super Charger kit's damage to my engine, I have been forced to obtain alternate means of transportation as my engine is being rebuilt/car is getting fixed. All of which Paxton is forcing me to carry the complete burden of the cost and inconvenience."


My bank researched this issue, which lasted almost 4 months, but eventually the decision was found to be in my favor, my bank charged back to Paxton for the product and I returned it to Paxton Automotive. While I have fully recovered the cost of the products purchase, no restitution was made for the damage sustained to my engine or the loss of use of my vehicle directly related to this product. I expect none at this point, but I think it’s critical that I finally come forward as to the details of the situation, so that others can make an informed purchase. I might get flamed here, or beat up by the Paxton reps on here, or even Paxton directly, but in the end if I save 1 person from making an uninformed decision about buying their Viper product, then it will have been worth it.

Jon
 

pullshard

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I feel for you. As you may know, I have posted about paxton as well. I too have a paxton car. The car's engine blew as well, but not when I owned the car. I brought the car to valaya racing. Ted May could not believe the Cob-Job of a fuel system paxton provided. He ripped it all out, installed a different pump, lines, headers-which should also be a part of the kit due to heat and breathing issues a super charger has, and a Vec II. I have yet to put the car on a dyno, but that is close to happening. The car is faster, and no longer surges when getting on the gas which was due to the fuel pumps kicking in. I'm not sure if this car will still last, I really do not trust it because of all the issues with paxtons kit.
I hope your rebuild goes well.
 

FE 065

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Amazing. Glad you recovered some of your money back...
 

01sapphireGTS

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Paxton is only in the automotive industry as a sideline, effort. They made air exchangers, and ventillation for buildings and submarines and then looked into moving air on cars much later. I met the owner's son several times while working at Summit Racing. You're right about the fuel system, most all performance vehicles need a better than "kit" upgrade, because the stock system is usually to small to start with, so then the upgrade is actually what should have come stock...
 

jrkermode

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Jon,

I think you need to provide more detail on what happened between Paxton referring you to Mike Adams and your engine blowing.

As described, it's not clear whether the equipment was defective or if the installation of the job requires a "trained professional" to properly tune it.
 

Ulysses

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Sounds pretty clear to me that the "kit" as it stands, is not a reliable "bolt on" or "diy" kit. More must be done beyond what is supplied to ensure a safe/reliable solution.
 

VIPER D

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I feel for for you guys but its like using nos. Some people use it for years with no problems and some blow up in days. I ordered a paxton for my srt and fully understand that the kit is a good base. I chose a shop that does turbos and blowers and understand the i might have to beef up the fuel system. I have a vec2 and will use that just like mike adams. No big hp kits come w/o head aches.

But to just install and start driving without dyno/ afr tuning????? hummmmm risky

vd..

Oh by the way my nos system is no joke and was dyno tuned. Without the afr # 's under load (mustang dyno only) who knows what dammage I could of done.


also I bet you used a dyno jet and not a mustang dyno right?

if so that could be one problem right there. Wich has nothing to do with paxton.

The spit tech is very hard to tune.
 

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[rambling thoughts] To me, it looks like ANY supercharger requires a signifigant amount of tuning, by those with the skill, tools and equipment, patience and know-how to set it up right. And if thats true, then it is a little misleading to advertise it as a DIY kit, to be installed by the average Joe. But we want these kits, right? We don't want everything to be a dealer-only sale, with a price to match. So the challenge for the "enthusiast" becomes learning everything we can about s/c'rs, fuel flow, software parameters, etc, so we can buy a reasonably priced kit, and successfully install it ourselves. Whether that is possible with the Paxton kit, I don't know. Jon would know a lot more about that than I would, since I have never tried to get their pile of parts to work right, and Jon has.

I'm thinking that if I install the Paxton or the Roe, I will need to have it tuned by one of the professional tuners. But they might not as helpful and willing to sort it out, if the material sale is not through them, which is understandable. No one wants to sort out someone else's mistakes, and have thier shop's reputation "signed" to the finished product, if they don't have full control over the process. [/rambling thoughts]
 
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2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

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PullsHard,
You and I are not the only ones having problems with their "kit." It truly is a poorly put together kit, that the ONLY real solution is to have a tuner add a fuel system, and/or tune the piggy back computer to adjust your fuel system (which is not explained or recommended in the kits instructions). So the kit is NOT A DIYer. Everyone that speaks highly of it, had it done by a tuner. Which is fine, but DONT market the product as a DIY, if its not really out of the box ready as such.

FE 065,
Thanks, appeciate it.

01sapphireGTS,
Interesting insight, but regardless of their past, they are definetly missing the mark right now, on customer support and DIY Offering for Gen II Viper.

jrkermode,
I'll answer most any question, as long as it doesnt involve including someone that has done me NO WRONG, and doesnt want to be discussed in this.
1. My Kit was not defective, any more so than any other GEN II DIY kit Paxton offers.
2. Mike Adams had absolutely nothing to do with my engine blowning, he only tried to assist me in understanding where I needed to upgrade the DIY kit, to actually perform as advertised, and how to potentially save myself from detonation (which didnt work).

Miles B,
The motor ran lean, burned up 3 spark plugs, and part of that material from the burned up spark plugs, scored the head and cyclinder walls, and also created a low compression in 1 of the cyclinders. I have photos of the plugs, that I took with a friends camera and left on his computer, he says he will email them to me in the next day or two.

Ulysses,
You hit the nail on the head.

Vipder D,
Please reread my post. You seemed to have missed the point. It is a DIY kit, therefor, I am not required to take it to ANYONE to have it tuned, or to have it installed, the instructions do not say word ONE about taking it to anyone. It gives you step by step instructions on what you need to do. I am glad your happy with your paxton product, but unless you installed it, your not really talking about apples to apples, especially since I am talking about the Gen II kit and your talking GenIII. One last thing, so let me get this straight, I used the wrong dyno?, because the dyno jet that used said I was LEAN was wrong ? A mustang Dyno would have fixed everything ? Sorry, way off on this one, I did NO tuning to the car, I simply put it on a dyno, found out it was lean. Both dyno's could have told me that. I THINK you are talking about tuning, read their web site, no talks about tuning being needed, or explained at all. This is a bolt on kit (supposedly).

Vic,
Very good rambling thoughts. But it points to the reality, its not a DIY kit, thats all. Notice I am saying nothing about wether the kit can produce excellent results in a tuners hands, it can. But it cant do it as just a bolt on kit, a fuel system is required, and at a bare minimum TUNING.

Jon
 

Miles B

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Selling it as a DIY install, they should ensure it runs well rich if not tuned professionally. There is no excuse for selling a product that without professional tuning will damage an engine, and saying you do not need the professional tuning. That is a recipe for disaster.

I believe many here have installed the Roe kit without having it professionally tuned?
 

2MANYTOYS

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This is the reason I took mine to a professional tuner who completely changes the kit to a custom setup including his own custom fuel system. You know the old saying Rich is Right and Lean is Mean.

Probably need to differientiate between the "kit" paxton sells as opposed to the actual blower "novi 2000". Most Tuners use the Novi 2000 with their custom fuel systems, fans, etc... and don't have these problems. All DIY kits need to be tuned. The initial Roe setup I had was a nightmare in the beginning trying to get it to run properly. After the initial install I couldn't run a mile without throwing codes and finally after changing the wiring harness and having Macedo come an dyno tune it. It ran better but seemed to always have a miss throughout the rpm range and became cold natured. I don't think any of the kits are perfect but the extra power is worth it to me.
 
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2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

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Miles B,
I'm with you on that one, regarding running rich. The Roe setup has apparently had a few challenges as noted by 2ManyToys, but I think at least Roe stands behind his product and is willing to help a customer any way he can. I could be wrong, but I know so far his customer service reputation is much better then Paxton’s on this board.

2ManyToys,
I believe when people have problems they should voice them. Too many people keep a "keep it quiet" approach when dealing with a less then stellar product, which unfortunately, hurts the future consumers who buy the product and don’t know it isn’t as bullet proof as advertised.

Buckeye Viper,
Why not a praise and disgruntled forum? If someone is doing something right, lets give them their due acknowledgement, if they are doing something wrong, well they get their acknowledgement also.

Jon
 

Casey

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Jon, good post! And thanks for letting us here know about the way Paxton treated you, as well as your experience with their DIY kit!
***** to hear it caused damage to your engine!
Good luck getting the rest of your money back.

Don't give up on you SC plans due to their misrepresentation. Heffner isn't too far away! :2tu:
 
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2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

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Thanks Casey, I am not against SC Vipers, as they make amazing power. Just seems there really isnt a very good offereing from Paxton for the DIYer on a Gen II Viper. I would be carefull if they are offering such a Kit for Gen III, let others prove it, before too many people lose their money and their motors on a potentially inadequate product.

Jon
 

forced

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I will not flame Jon on this post. I do want to say that this is only his side of the story. After dealing with Jon for a long time now, I know that no matter what I say here, he will always kick sand in Paxton's face.

Andy,
As for the VOI in Texas, I am sorry you were disappointed. We only had one representative there with both vehicles. If you actually talked with Micah there, I am sure you would not feel this way.

If anybody has any questions or issues about the Paxton Viper system, you can email me directly at [email protected] or Micah at [email protected]
 

pullshard

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If it was me and I had a choice, I would go with roe. I have bought only a few items from sean, but I have emailed him numerous times regaurding other issues with my car. Sean has emailed back every time with his input and great advice. Now that my friends is not good but great customer service. I can't say enough good things about sean and becky.
 

2MANYTOYS

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Miles B,
I'm with you on that one, regarding running rich. The Roe setup has apparently had a few challenges as noted by 2ManyToys, but I think at least Roe stands behind his product and is willing to help a customer any way he can. I could be wrong, but I know so far his customer service reputation is much better then Paxton’s on this board.

2ManyToys,
I believe when people have problems they should voice them. Too many people keep a "keep it quiet" approach when dealing with a less then stellar product, which unfortunately, hurts the future consumers who buy the product and don’t know it isn’t as bullet proof as advertised.

Buckeye Viper,
Why not a praise and disgruntled forum? If someone is doing something right, lets give them their due acknowledgement, if they are doing something wrong, well they get their acknowledgement also.

Jon


Agreed!

I can't speak for the Paxton DIY kit both look difficult for me as I'm no mechanic. That's why I chose UGR to do my setup. Do you still have those Stoptechs?
 
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2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

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I will not flame Jon on this post. I do want to say that this is only his side of the story. After dealing with Jon for a long time now, I know that no matter what I say here, he will always kick sand in Paxton's face.

Andy,
As for the VOI in Texas, I am sorry you were disappointed. We only had one representative there with both vehicles. If you actually talked with Micah there, I am sure you would not feel this way.

If anybody has any questions or issues about the Paxton Viper system, you can email me directly at [email protected]">[email protected]</a> or Micah at <a href="mailto:[email protected]

Forced/Steve,
There is no reason to Flame me, and I think you are being a little excessive about "kicking sand in Paxton's face." I tried to get you guys to own up to the problem, but you didnt want to, only offered baidaids to both the problem and my loss. The best I can hope for is that you guys will revisit your products current state, and make the appropriate changes, to make sure you put an end to this type of outcome for unsuspecting customers. Thanks for letting me and others do your R&D, hopefully our financial loss was enough to better the product for others.

Jon
 

STUGOTS

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See I was going to get the paxton (at one point) because the Roe replaces the intake and I have always wanted a chrome intake but after I called paxton and they told me I can run 16 psi on a stock viper I kinda decided to not go with them.

Jon what psi were you running?
 

Larry Macedo

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Interesting read...I'm sorry to hear a few have had problems, but we've had great success with the Paxton product to date. We're in the middle of adding more boost to one of our cars that currently makes 805rwhp and 780rwtq @ 12psi. Our client drove the car for 2 weeks and absolutely loves his Viper. I'll post the dyno results and PICS of the car when we complete the project.
 

JDR

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forced/Steve:

I sent three e-mails to [email protected] in late 2003 and early 2004... not even ONE response back from Paxton.

I asked about tested A/F ratios, installation details, and other specific data on the product - no response.

When it was mentioned on this board some time ago that Paxton could have "issues", it seamed possible - a few suggested A/F problems, but details were not discussed...

Being I had previously posted that Paxton was completely unresponsive to any of technical inquiries, I'm not surprised to see Jon's post as a DIY'r getting the shaft.
 

VIPER D

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See I was going to get the paxton (at one point) because the Roe replaces the intake and I have always wanted a chrome intake but after I called paxton and they told me I can run 16 psi on a stock viper I kinda decided to not go with them.

Jon what psi were you running?



Who did you speak to there?

vd..
 
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2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

2002_Viper_GTS_ACR

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See I was going to get the paxton (at one point) because the Roe replaces the intake and I have always wanted a chrome intake but after I called paxton and they told me I can run 16 psi on a stock viper I kinda decided to not go with them.

Jon what psi were you running?


I was running the stock set up, which was 7.0-7.2 psi.


Interesting read...I'm sorry to hear a few have had problems, but we've had great success with the Paxton product to date. We're in the middle of adding more boost to one of our cars that currently makes 805rwhp and 780rwtq @ 12psi. Our client drove the car for 2 weeks and absolutely loves his Viper. I'll post the dyno results and PICS of the car when we complete the project.

Larry, glad you are having great sucess with the kit, however, your a tuner, and I am speaking SOLELY about the Paxton DIY kit they are claiming is a "Do it yourself kit". I am pretty sure Paxton isnt recommending people take the DIY kit of theirs and run 800+ hp with it, as they have trouble getting a solid and safe 600hp as the kit stands now in stock form. BTW, Didnt Under Ground racing already pull off like 900+ hp ? So im not sure what your doing, other then advertising here, as that 800hp number was bested at least 6 months ago by Underground Racing. I wish you continued success with your installs



Jon
 

Larry Macedo

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Hello Jon,
I didn't post that to insinuate we were making more power than anyone, just posting the facts, Sir. This car started out it's life as a [******] Venom 650R and we added a Paxton S/C because that is what our client wanted. We have 2 smaller pulley changes we can make and that is what we plan to do, make as much power as we can safely. Thank you for opening my eyes to the fact others have made more power than we have in the past with more boost!
 

SilverBlueGTS

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Sorry for the problems you have had. So it would seem that the moral of this sad story is that this kit is basicly good but its not a DIY kit. As other tuners have said, the kit with their own special tuning and fuel systems works well. You really have to wonder how can Paxton make a good kit but not have their fuel system sorted out. Paxton should just do what the other tuners are doing and be done with it. It does not seem all that hard to figure out.
 

Daniel Cragin/DC Performance Inc

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We have installed about 20 of these systems with no problem.
The system works well with most modifications to the exhaust (except cat removal). With additional engine modifications a fuel system upgrade is required (injectors etc). If you want big hp (700-900rwhp) then a fuel system specific application is required. I am interested in what happened to your particular vehicle and think Paxton wants to keep customers happy. Let us know the details related to the particular failure. Maybe we can help others.
 
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