Removing cats???

[Janni]

With the high flow cat options available, and with the disasterous effects of pouring nasty crapola into the air we breathe, do we really need to be doing this for 2 or 3 horsepower?

I realize this may not be the most "Viper PC" statement out there, but just because we have fast cars doesn't mean we can be, or have to be, bad stewards of the earth... Our cars run very clean with cats and easily pass emissions with hi flo cats. So why lower ourselves into the class of the 1982 Ford Grenada with a cracked windshield and missing exhaust system while doing a small part to trash the planet???

Please think an extra few minutes before you decide to remove your cats. The planet will thank you.

Flame Suit on... (Environmentally friendly flame suit, but a flame suit, nonetheless...)

 

[BurnR8]

ummm..ya....8 MPG really saves the planet too...

Ralph Nader just picked up his ACR this morning...but he is going to keep his cats in....

though a well intentioned post....the credibility factor is shot until you start driving a Hybrid and wearing **** clothes...

save the planet dude

 

[Janni]

I never said we don't burn a lot of fossil fuels, what I did say is that we don't need to be churning out hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides IN ADDITION to all the fuel we consume....

It is my understanding that about 10-20% of the vehicles out there contribute to 90% of the emissions related pollution - mostly because of inadequate exhuast systems. Taking off the cats seems environmentally assaultive on a comparatively "clean" vehicle.

That's all...

 

[BurnR8]

I c your point...yet...the irony is that on a % basis....0% of 0 is still zero....if you drove a hybrid you would be a great deal more environmentally friendly than driving a viper the same distance....WITH cats...without cats is just further insult to the same irony....

the thought of having the environment in mind at all when purchasing a Viper is similar to ordering a "diet coke" with your Big Mac and fries....it may sound good when you say it...but just gets lost in all the fat and cholesterol....

BTW- I have no CATS, still pass the state mandated emissions, and my car does less damage to the Ozone than a herd of cows on a hot day in the middle of summer after a good graze....

 

[BlackACR]

I like being called (class of the 1982 Ford Grenada with a cracked windshield and missing exhaust system while doing a small part to trash the planet???) I have no cats on my car and, it still passes emissions no problem, Most cars will pass with no cats if they are tuned right. Sounds like the tree hugging blame game to me. Its nice how people assume things with out all the facts...............

 

[USAF BAD ASP]

All the major pollutants the government tracks are DOWN dramatically since the 1960's..

Two major reports published this year show the polar ice cap is getting THICKER at a rate that alarmed scientists. One study was financed by a 'green' group and when the head scientist found out the results, he said "these weren't the results we were looking for to advance our cause"

The earth has natural up and down temp cycles.. these bleeding heart liberals who cry foul every time they think we're going to cook on earth makes me laugh!

PS, studies have shown that one major volcano eruption can put more pollutants in the air than all the cars in the US could do in 50 years. Chew on that...

 

[Janni]

Less pollution = good.

More pollution = bad.

Glad things are getting better. DOes that mean we stop trying - especially when we have "Ozone Awareness Days" and health advisories every summer?

Cats reduce pollution.

No cats create more pollution. (relatively speaking for the same car...)

Hi flo cats help make additional HP without the negative pollution impacts.

Oh never mind..... I'll just go hug a tree.

 

[Elite1]

That 10-20% of cars ptting out 90% of the pollution is because those 10-20% of cars are 15-20 year black smoke chuggers. The cars that get a pass on emmissions because of granfather clauses ect. The fact is out new cars are such a small % of the pollution in comparison. The govt. wizard that be have made emission standards that resemble the tax rates... the more money you make the greater the percentage the govt takes to redistribute. Same thing with emmissions, ...the newer your car is the more demanding on emmisions to that all the old cars can keep on polluting at 5X my car.

 

[Kevin ACR]

BurnR8,

You are too funny!

Cats, we don't need no stinkin cats.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
BTW- I have no CATS, still pass the state mandated emissions, and my car does less damage to the Ozone than a herd of cows on a hot day in the middle of summer after a good graze....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

All those studies and reports are always slanted towards the point they want to make. I never pay any mind to them. For every report there could be another one stating just the opposite. I only believe what I see with my own two eyes.

I look at all the cars during rush hour and make a common sense guess at how many have the cats removed. Less than one percent.

I see smoke billowing from Trucks and Buses and Airplanes but I can’t see any coming from the cars surrounding me.

Growing up in a small steel town the 60s and 70s I remember how bad the smog was. Today you’d never even know there was a steel mill anywhere around.

30 years ago the most common method of suicide was falling asleep in the garage with the car running and the garage door closed. Today you’d just get a good night’s sleep.

If cars are a problem I aint seeing it. In fact, if we could cruise a reasonable speed to get to our destinations there would be fewer people taking those winged smog machines that REALLY pollute.

Mother Nature and the environment are much more resilient than we give them credit for. 30 years from now somebody will be complaining about hybrids polluting something. If people really wanted to help the environment they’d quit having so many kids.

Janni, are you just trying to stir things up? If so, thanks. TV *****.

 

[Mopar Steve]

This is the first year that I didn't "winterize" my toys. 'Cuda has been out, and I've driven the viper several days a month all winter! At this rate, in a couple years I can leave my boat in the water all winter.

God bless global warming!

 

[Ulysses]

CO: colorless HC: relative parts per million makes it pretty much invisible. O3(ozone): colorless. Chemical reaction amongst all 3, invisible to the naked eye.


Green House Theory: Still in debate, probably more evidence of Earth going through normal heating and cooling cycles than any global warming due to pollution.

Ozone Depletion: A real concern.

Cow Gas: Seen the report, wouldn't have wanted to be the person doing the testing.

 

[genXgts]

Kidless and catless, would that qualify for a wash?

my first smiley at viperclub, I'm so excited.....

Ryan

 

[Makara]

Call me a long haired Hollywood wacko, but I agree with the cat issue. My high flow cats cost a few hundred dollars and maaaaybe a few horsepower. I don't think that would hurt anyone here too much. What does 3-5 hp cost you in the quarter mile anyway? True, we do get really lousy mileage in these cars but isn't that reason enough to make the exhaust that we do spew out less poisonous?

 

[GTS Bruce]

Even if all Vipers ran catless their emissions would add up to zero percent of total polution.Its a non-issue. Bruce

 

[dancojax]

I certainly can't prove it, but I've seen in print from reasonably reliable sources that when the space shuttle takes off from Kennedy space center it produces more pulutants than all the cars and trucks in Florida do in one year.
BUT that does not mean that we should just disregard all of the "pullution controls" that we have developed.
My 1957 Chrysler Imperial got about 12 miles per gallon. My 1995 Cadillac gets about 19mpg. My Viper gets 25 on the road in 6th gear.---about 18 in 4th gear. This in progress.
Anyone who has paid attention to the earth while flying high above (IN an airplane, dummy, not while 'flying') can see that mankind has changed the face of the earth a WHOLE BUNCH in the last 200 years.
Personally I wonder what the future would be like if mankind was 2000 years behind where we are.
SO, DON'T PICK ON JANNI JUST BECAUSE SHE THINKS FURTHER (AND WITH MORE PERCEPTION) THAN YOU DO!!!!!

 

[BurnR8]

Thanks Dad! When does your Hybrid show up?

 

[Makara]

I can't remember what the SRBs burn but I know that the external tank is filled with oxygen and hydrogen. Shouldn't the exhaust be water vapor? Then again the SRBs probably spit out a lot of crap.

I know in LA that the smog is said to get better every year since emission controls were mandatory on new cars. In fact I have heard that most of the pollution that we have is from the very small percentage of cars that don't run cleanly. Just because you might have a really nice car or a fast car, how does that make it ok to multiply your pollutants many times over? Should everybody rip their cats off for a few more hp or does the fact that somebody paid $70,000 + for a car give them the right to spew out extra poisons?

 

[GTS Bruce]

Yes

 

[USAF BAD ASP]

those 'small percentage of cars that don't run cleanly' are the older cars and trucks spewing out far more than all our vipers could with no cats.

I am going to put hiflo's on mine soon. i won't run catless, but if someone wants to and it passes their states emission test, so be it. God gave us a world that can safely digest far more than what we give credit for. When groups claim there's a huge hole in the ozone layer and we're cooking, they get major government grant money!!!! No hole, No money.

 

[ewave]

If anyone is looking for an OEM of the hi-flow cats check out carsouds website:
http://www.car-sound.com/page5.htm

The type to use is the 94009. (3" in, 3" out, 3 way, no air.)

The cheapest place I found to buy them is:
http://www.bestautopartsonline.com/converters.htm

You have to call them up because they don't list the PN for their cats on their website. They cost less than $90 a piece!

 

[John H]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BurnR8:

the thought of having the environment in mind at all when purchasing a Viper is similar to ordering a "diet coke" with your Big Mac and fries....it may sound good when you say it...but just gets lost in all the fat and cholesterol....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That statement pretty much sums up and ends this entire rediculous thread. And LMAO @ BurnR8.

On the topic of "hi-flow" cats. Has any one of you ever done any emmisions testing on these? Do you just assume they don't pollute any worse than stock cats? Maybe something middleroad? That's hypocritic right there. Well, I have done some testing, albeit on a non-Viper. The high-flow cat in question was the Randon Technology brand. The first and the best rated. The car passed emmisions in stock trim/stock exhaust. The car failed miserably in modified form and Random Technology high flow cat. But hey it passed the visual test! With no cats, the car passed emmisions. With no cats and proper fuel tuning, the modified car had cleaner emmisions than the stock car. The theory on the high flow cat was that it didn't get hot enough to provide any catalyst function and wound up simply being a restiction. Proper maintenance and fuel tuning is by far a greater key to emmisions than any catalytic converter. Catalytic converters over 5 years in age have been shown to do more harm than good. Next time you get behind that barely running '84 Monte Carlo with the smoke screen billowing out the back that everyone is avoiding, ask him if he removed his cats for performance. Chances are they're still intact.

Not to start another debate, but EVs and hybrids cause more pollution (albeit different) than gas vehicles. Power for an EV doesn't come out of the sky, it comes from burning coal. No cats on the coal smokestacks last time I checked. The multiple non-recycleable lead-acid batteries that have a useful life of a year in EVs and hybrids have to be disposed of somewhere. It's a vicious cycle.

John H

 

[Makara]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John H:


Not to start another debate, but EVs and hybrids cause more pollution (albeit different) than gas vehicles. Power for an EV doesn't come out of the sky, it comes from burning coal. No cats on the coal smokestacks last time I checked. The multiple non-recycleable lead-acid batteries that have a useful life of a year in EVs and hybrids have to be disposed of somewhere. It's a vicious cycle.

John H


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was never crazy about peoples fascination with electric cars and the blind belief that electricity is clean power. Electricity can and may one day be clean but not today for a majority of this country. Electric cars are a great way of relocating an existing problem rather than actually solving it. The one benefit that I do see in electric cars is their inherent efficiency in city driving over their internal combustion counterparts.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Makara:

Electric cars are a great way of relocating an existing problem rather than actually solving it

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but there will ALWAYS be an existing problem. Even if we had solar powered vehicles the tree huggers would campaign against the use of the lubricants in it or the way it was built, etc. Special interest will always find something...

 

[HogWhisperer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John H:
The multiple non-recycleable lead-acid batteries that have a useful life of a year in EVs and hybrids have to be disposed of somewhere. It's a vicious cycle.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is actually a great point. Having had some experience with industrial Lead-Acid batteries, I can tell you that they are a nasty and extremely toxic material (lead and sulfuric acid). By the way, charging them produces hydrogen gas. That's nice! And as you said, disposing of them is a real problem.

That's it for me. Now I'm off to hunt some Spotted Owls...

 

[zoomie]

I found it interesting that when I showed up at the Maryland emissions test, they all pointed at me sitting in line and a supervisor came out. "Your car requires special overnight testing, you'll need to leave the keys". cracked me up! To which I said she would have my first-born first. They asked me to come around to the office, gave me a 2 year waiver, did not even look under the car, no tailpipe test, nor take my money, and good-bye. They did not wish to risk the vehicle on their dyno. Others here had said Md would not test. They seem to think there are not enough of us to matter significantly.
I do think it has helped. I remember brown clouds over Denver, etc.