RMS WAS NOT INVOLVED IN ANY SCAM

[BadVenm]

Scott,

It's clear that Belanger backed out on you. It's poor that he did.

But what is really sh!tty is why he did it. Pressure from another vendor who has been named by 2BADD 4U as being Jon B at Parts Rack. If Jon B would have handled it more professionally than just threatening Lou B to drop his line if Lou B didn't squash you, then you would still be golden with Belanger.

Jon B should just have been smart enough to get Belanger to sell him headers on the same price structure Belanger offered you.

If Belanger was smart he would have hung up on the 3 way call and told Jon B to call back by himself and Lou B could have set up a price break for Parts Rack like RMS had, or maybe even a 15 or 20 set price break that was geared for a bigger distrubitor, then he could have offered a killer price like you were going to do.

I'm not a retail guy, and Vipermad may educate me tonight with his forth coming posts about retail, and I'm sure he can, because I haven't read retail for dummies, which I am, but I would assume there is no law that says if I manufacture something I must give all distributors the same price. If a guy buys 1 unit a year vs. a guy that buys 100 units a year, I'm sure I would give the 100 unit buyer a break. But if the 1 unit a year guy called and said I can sell 10 units right now with a little better price, and I gave that to him.... I would most likley have e-mailed, or faxed my other vendors and said I'm making a special run for the next 20 or 30 units I have a special price of *** please let me know how many you want. If distributor ABC never called to order, then later when he called and b!tched, I'd just say, I e-mailed you and I faxed you but you never replied, sorry you missed out. But that's just me and how I would do it.

 

[Gerald]

Sounds like someone we all know. LOL!!!!
If all this is true, I will never buy a Belanger header again....

G

 

[Mike Brunton]

I do retail and sell to distributors and dealers. It's *always* a game of who can pay the least, and you guys would not believe the bickering and infighting among the dealers. I get calls from A who wants me to stop selling to B, then B says A is violating their contract, etc, etc. It goes on and on.

I can't blame JonB for trying to protect his interests. he's a businessman, maybe an agressive one, but that's his choice - he's just taking care of business.

It sounds like Belanger is the wet noodle in this situation who caved quicker than a jellyfish underfoot. It seems RMS worked out a price with Lou. Lou probably knew he shouldn't be offering that kind of price, but he did it behind the backs of his other resellers and told the guys to keep it hush-hush. The other resellers found out, and (can't blame them) called him up to ask ***. At which point Mr. Jellyfish backed out of his commitment, denied knowledge of the whole thing, and allowed two folks to be dragged through the mud as scammers.

That really *****.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Not sure but there may be a legal question here. As I recall from my long ago forgotten MBA, the Sherman anti-trust act had specific clauses regarding the fixation of prices. That plus it sounds like a verbal contract was not fulfilled as a result. Seems like enough legal fodder for some action.

 

[Hirohawa]

This is terrible how Scott and his company RMS got dragged through the mud for this BS.
Also Viper23 is just a nice guy that tried to do everyone a favor, I was to be #8 on his GP so I am kinda PO'd at the way this turned out.

It's bad enough that we have to worry about the likes of JH now we have to worry about the "honest" vendor/tuners as well.

Maybe I am naive but this has never happened on the CorvetteForum with the Vendor/Tuners. I hope this will be an isolated incident here.

Thanks to Scott @ RMS and Viper23 for trying to give us this great deal!

Glad the truth came out here, thanks to all who exposed the situation. This Forum is great!

Thanks

 

[VIPERCANE]

I guess no Belanger headers for my next Viper. Terrible situation that both Viper23 and RMS were put thru. Jon B, not even a single comment...............hmmmmmmmmmmm?????

 

[Mopar Steve]

The "fixation" of prices, or commonly known as price fixing is in a gray area at retail. Manufacturers and wholesalers can not dictate the retail price, only a suggested retail price. This price is often the "fantasy" high price to be discounted from. These suppliers can, maintain a MAP price. MAP, an acronym for Minimum Advertised Price, can be enforced by a supplier. While a retailer can sell a product for whatever price they like they cannot Advertise the product below an advertised price. This policy maintains a fair and level playing field for those with a large retail store to support their customers and to provide quality service, versus those with a web site, no expenses and no customer service. A retailer that advertises his product below a minimum advertised price can be subject to termination as a dealer.

I have no idea what happened here. This is just a little information on price fixing an collusion between retailers and suppliers.

 

[patgilm]

I'm glad I already have headers or I would be even more upset. I don't really care about retailers and dealers or what is normal in that side of the business. What really p!sses me off is the way a certain retailer handled the situation by making RMS and Viper23 look like crooks for his own personal gain with a quote similar to "well I sell these headers close to $100 of this price, please call me now to purchase please as everyone else here is lying and I had another member on three-way with Lou to prove it".

 

[Torquemonster]

Sounds like someone we all know. LOL!!!!
If all this is true, I will never buy a Belanger header again....

G

reckon you'll pick up another 10th or 2 Gerald when you upgrade those tri y's to a nice set of equal length 5 into 1's

 

[Torquemonster]

Well since Belanger has now dropped me as a dealer..I'll post this up. Any manufacturer offering the kind of dealer support he DIDN't offer to me..I'd rather not be involved with anyway. What's funny is that the letter reads request for for authorized dealership...I already WAS!

I'll say it now in light of these events. Lou Belanger is the one who let me the dealer down and caused everone to yell SCAM. Then he sat there and let my name be drug in the dirt. I guess this is how he washes his hands of it. Thanks Belanger!

____________________________________
401 W. Lone Cactus Dr., Ste. # 6
Phoenix, AZ 85027
623-582-5900 or 877-423-7878
Fax: 623-582-7932
e-mail: [email protected]




March 12, 2004


In light of recent events, Belanger Headers, Inc. denies your request for authorized dealership status for Viper headers and exhaust products at the current time.

Perhaps some time in the future authorized dealer status will be more appropriate.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Scott - email me - I will give you contacts for far better headers for modified engines. I will also be doing something at some point that will ensure you get some business out of this mess that otherwise would have gone to those who screwed you. In the end you will be better off from this mess not worse off.

Hope you stick around - you've been absolutely tops in the way you have handled this.

 

[Gerald]

Sounds like someone we all know. LOL!!!!
If all this is true, I will never buy a Belanger header again....

G

reckon you'll pick up another 10th or 2 Gerald when you upgrade those tri y's to a nice set of equal length 5 into 1's

Perhaps, but I think I could pick up about another .3 to .5 with a 1.5 60' instead of 1.9x to 2.2.. Whuddya think?

 

[Mike Adams]

I too sell Random Tech, Corsa, B&B, and Belanger. I will tell you some of these companies have called me if they feel I quote some one too low. One company refuse to sell me their new low price cat back to protect someones pricing. In Canada this is illegal and call price fixing.

If everyone is really interested in a good price on headers feel free to call me. I will tell you up front I will bill in Canadian dollars at the approximate exchange rate. I pay 1.9% for visa and mastercard fees and $30 to wire the money to B&B. Email if you are really serious about getting either some 1 3/4 headers or Some of B&B tri-y headers designed by SVP ( who originally authorized belanger to build the headers I believe) and I will talk to Mark to see what kind of deal we can work out.

 

[JonB]

If Belanger was offering a lower price to another distributor, I don't have a problem with JonB calling them on it. It would irritate me too if I was a distributor.

EXACTLY !!! I've been scolded by Corsa, StopTech, and Others. Even Belanger! That is why I dont post anything but published prices here or web-publish my VCA/lowest package prices. You have to call.


I've been away to THUNDERHILL as a sponsor with Brian Angen Memorial and Viper Days events... I am sorry for my slow reply.

I've been helping Viper owners since 1993, and the unscripted, spontaneous conference call offer for BADDDave was just a continuation of that. Period. No subterfuge, no soap opera, just me, trying to help and get to the bottom of a too-good-offer, on behalf of a customer. Period.

[ Would'nt someone trying to undermine simply do it in private? I was honestly trying to help BBADDave see reality... ]

TOTAL RECAP: A past customer asks me if I could beat $1480 on BELANGER headers. I truthfully stated NO WAY, That is below my cost. (Truth) I was in disbelief...still am. He says a "buy 10 get a lower price" deal is on the site from an UNKNOWN SELLER ! So I am skeptical and very curious, and thankful for the alert. I offer a conference call to determine legitimacy. (Remember - $1500 was not low enuf for him, he wanted me to beat THAT !!!!)

I ALREADY BUY 10+ PRICING! We call Belangers point-blank, [without me calling in advance and simply staging a reply for Dave.] We called, cold turkey, and the story unfolded for Dave and I simultaneously in REAL TIME. No Setup. And later for Dr. Roof.

Lou sez: 'Belangers has no buy-10 deals; nor was one quoted or working with ANY vendor; Nor would any ever be!' Lou would anger several important distributors (not just Viper!) if he did business this way. I believe him! Only later, we heard the name of the alleged 'vendor' from BaddDave......not a vendor I had ever heard of, or any one else for that matter. [ Lou admits he has a low-ball drive-in-only install-deal for AZ-VCA members in Phoenix, and not even below $1500 !

My package price w/ cats is darn close, no possibility of a counterfeit, contingency prizes eligible, and a (HOEPFULLY) known and trusted manufacturer and vendor. NOT UNKNOWNS !!! Viper 123 was being an avid shopper. Not a scammer. So Viper123 was being naive, not dishonest. But Brand X allegedly told BaddDave to send V123 the money! IF Brand X was a legit distributor, why not take the money?????

"WHY SEND $50K TO A STRANGER FOR A NO-DEAL" was my total bewildered puzzlement. It Still is.

But as I posted, my price ended up being within about $100 of the 'too-good' offer anyway! And you could even speak to Belanger to confirm my product. Not so with brand-X, apparently.

I made V-123, and others, an offer. I admitted as much on this site! And a couple others took my "bird in the hand, headers in stock deal" which I WILL NOT POST...you have to call to get it. I also offered Dave a 1-time-offer my lowest/best. He still wanted LOWER like some power-shoppers will do.....and have a RIGHT to! He apparently found someone to beat it. (It is easy to pick my brain for 45+ minutes and shop-seek-search-find someone who will then beat PartsRack by $25. That's life. )

I had only heard of RMS 1 day prior! But "Scott" then calls me and says he IS a Belanger distributor, and has sold Belangers already! [Hmmmm: Can Scott tell us to whom he sold Belangers, proving Belanger wrong? ] This appears a blatant attempt to discredit Lou Belanger, who I do feel that know and trust 100%. Hmmmm: Why did Scott tell BaddDave to send V123 the money if Scott is legit??

There is no doubt that the Belanger Header is a tried and tested great product, well worth the $1795 current list price. (MSRP $2495.) Package prices Waaaay lower. And if you really have 10 guys, you can trust PartsRack, and we'll likley be within $100 of the too-good price anyway........even on single packages! Am I allowed to make 8% after credit card fees? CMON!!! Please?

There is no doubt that Lou is rightfully protective of his product value, as shown during the last 'header war' as others have mentioned.....

I am stunned that so much inuendo and suspicion could surround historic supporters like Belanger and PartsRack! I've been helping Viper owners since 1993, and the unscripted, spontaneous conference call offer for Dave was just a continuation of that! It sounded too good to be true..... it was ......end of story.

If this is simply price-driven and if you want uncoated B+Bs, we can do those from well under $1500!

Sorry for the long post, and I am very thankful that several of you recognize bashing for what it is..... I was just trying to help uncover a scam, which BOTH BaddDave and I thought we did, simultaneously !!!

 

[JonB]

(my quote)When I spoke to Lou Belanger on the phone, he told me in PLAIN English that he DOES NOT know of RMS and Scott, and has no dealings with him...And that RMS IS NOT a BELANGER DEALER...That phone call was also a 3 way "conference" call with Jon B from Parts rack Too! Call Jon B....(my quote)

.......now this is making sense...Jon B was hissy fitting, about the low ball prices..... ......I do remember the 3 way conversation( Me , Jon, and Lou B) very clearly, and Now I see what happened...jon was very persistant to make this 3 way conversation , I did not ask for it, ....Lou B, was accomodating jons request(in my presence)...and jon was acting like HE was the biggest and best Belanger dealer on the earth. So there you have it guys, our own vendor killed this deal to prosper himself... THE END

Dave, I am honestly too stressed and spontaneous (and probably dumb) a person to calculate this elaborate scheme in advance! You give me too much credit.

I simply asked you IF you'ld like to conference call Lou on my dime to see if there was indeed a legit offer in the works, before you and 30 possible guys send $1500 + shipping to a stranger. You had NOT told me the vendor name, not knowing it yourself, and you only found your notes DURING THE CALL! Remember? Please?

In total honesty, you and I SIMULTANEOUSLY thought we were discovering a scam! Right? Remember?

Confession: I did in fact ask Lou who his biggest Viper distributor is: yeah, I was bragging. I admit and apologize. But I am kinda proud of it.

 

[J DAWG]

Well hell. Looks like we haven't gotten anywhere. Everyone has their own story and none of them correspond with the other. All I know FOR SURE is Viper23 is OK and was just trying to help a few guys out.

I also know that I bought a set of Belanger headers and Corsa catback, NOT from Partsrack or RMS.

 

[cratica]

Sounds like it is just as described early on, some "pressure" was put on to cut the deal.

I know who I will stay away from for parts.

I bought some land in a small town outside of Austin in the hillcountry where there was one real estate office. The owner of that office came across as if he owned the town and nothing happens unless it goes through him. It became clear after talking to people around town and other realtors that this guy was trying his best to artificially inflate the price of real estate because he felt like he had "ownership" of the area and had a lot to gain by doing so. It's a game called "Monopoly".

We can't let that happen to our aftermarket Viper parts.

 

[Shelby3]

Let's say you're a Viper parts distributor who is buying headers wholesale for $1500 direct from the supplier. You then find out that the same supplier is selling them direct to the public for less than your wholesale price. In a case such as this, it's the supplier who is screwing his own distributor, not the distributor who is screwing the public. The distributor would have every right to call the supplier and want to know ***. I'm not saying that is what is happened in this case, but regardless I still don't see a case for jumping on JonB from anything I have read in this thread.

 

[JonB]

Let's say you're a Viper parts distributor who is buying headers wholesale for $1500 direct from the supplier. You then find out that the same supplier is selling them direct to the public for less than your wholesale price. In a case such as this, it's the supplier who is screwing his own distributor, not the distributor who is screwing the public. The distributor would have every right to call the supplier and want to know ***. I'm not saying that is what is happened in this case, but regardless I still don't see a case for jumping on JonB from anything I have read in this thread.

Thanks much, but to repeat and clarify: I did NOT suspect Belanger was doing this. I believe after 40+ years of selling headers he never would have been so successful if he did. And Viper is a relaitively tiny world.

I believed that an ill-conceived group buy was naively misrepresented here, and baddave and others (60?!) were about to be misled. I NEVER knew the vendor name until baddave revealed it from his notes to Lou Belanger DURING my customer-service motivated conference call. I suggested that call to help Dave understand the offer was likley bogus. He agreed and participated eagerly.

Who else WOULD know the answer for sure but Belanger ?!?!? So I placed a spontaneous call, not pre-plannned or scripted. I was only trying to enthusiasticaly investigate to help (as those who know me likley understand.)

Only when dave then revealed to belanger a partial vendor name , and belanger denied a buy was planned / negotiated / agreed / or ever would be, DAVE logically thought "scam!" But both he and I simultaneously believed we had likely discovered one. Why then would an 'authorized' vendor ask dave to send the payment to another unnamed unknown in Hawaii, as dave stated here? More fish.

I HATE SCAMS and bait-switch offers, and have worked hard to help owners see and avoid them. I have testified in both State and Federal courts about them during my professional career. That is all I was doing as that call began and ended: Investigating. As the story later unfolded, it shows that naievete was likely to blame, not malice. (As I posted in my 1st reply on the matter.)

Now, "John Doe" types, other anonymous, clouded, un-named 'enthusiasts' and out-of-country unknown commentators are enjoying this unfair bashing. They prefer to support other unknowns to keep their excitement alive. Their exitement is in believing the unbelievable, but please consider: Both Belanger and PartsRack have always been honorable and honest, and up-front with Viper Owners. THAT is our pattern and M.O. It's just more soap-opera fun for the anonymous to say and taunt otherwise.

PartsRack will continue to question any suspect "unbelievable" deals on behalf of our customers, and for our own industry knowledge and survival. Because too often on anonymous message boards like this, it is the unknown and incorrect leading the naive. And as a KNOWN entity, we will continue to alert our customers to be wary at times....as we did here.

 

[Shelby3]

Well since Belanger has now dropped me as a dealer..I'll post this up. Any manufacturer offering the kind of dealer support he DIDN't offer to me..I'd rather not be involved with anyway. What's funny is that the letter reads request for for authorized dealership...I already WAS!

I'll say it now in light of these events. Lou Belanger is the one who let me the dealer down and caused everone to yell SCAM. Then he sat there and let my name be drug in the dirt. I guess this is how he washes his hands of it. Thanks Belanger!

____________________________________
401 W. Lone Cactus Dr., Ste. # 6
Phoenix, AZ 85027
623-582-5900 or 877-423-7878
Fax: 623-582-7932
e-mail: [email protected]




March 12, 2004


In light of recent events, Belanger Headers, Inc. denies your request for authorized dealership status for Viper headers and exhaust products at the current time.

Perhaps some time in the future authorized dealer status will be more appropriate.

Thanks for your cooperation.

If you have been a Belanger header dealer in the past as you say, can you have anyone from this board who has purchased Belanger headers from you please post and affirm your claimed status?

 

[2BADD 4U]

Nice explanation, jon...but there still are people not fessing up...and probably never will....

From all the posts...possibilities...

It sounds "fishy" that RMS "changed" his "mistake" price from 1480 to 1795??????? ( on the vca site) Scot quoted me 1480.......on the phone. Scot also just told me that he JUST installed Belangers on a 2002 FE GTS....HMMMM whose Viper is that...could be valuable info!!! To verify originality...vs knock offs......why don't you check into it....that could tell the story

Lou Belanger , was catering to you (jon b ) on our 3 way phone call....... and the deal was terminated.......for fear of having to offer 1480 to ALL vendors.......

Rms WAS or WAS NOT ever a Belanger dealer, and was perhaps selling knock offs?????? RMS says HE IS a Belanger Dealer....AND Lou Belanger says HE IS NOT a Belanger dealer.

Who is lieing???????

Who cares at this point , I don't think that the VCA members will "ever" know the TRUTH....AND WE SHOULD!!!

CALL COLUMBO

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

I find that this has gone way too far, and I know that this all started by a note I sent Dave that this sounded suspicious. I felt uncomfortable ,as we have a very long standing relationship with Lou and I have never heard of him doing a group buy. He is strict about his Dealers and treats everyone the same - one of the reasons he has been in business 50+ years. I am the one who initially called Lou as I just thought it was suspicious, since we actually buy in bulk and we couldn't buy this cheap. I was worried about a friend/customer that this was not being done correctly, and with identity theft such a problem, his credit card number didn't need to be floating around. When Lou doesn't have a contract with the guy, it seems very weird to me, and I now believe the end result was nothing more than a naive businessman trying to get his name out, and figuring he could get Belanger to do him a deal with an order of 10 systems. I believe, and this is just my opinion, that this was an error made by someone who got aggressive without doing his homework. He learned his lesson, I am assuming , and attacks on Lou Belanger,Jon B, etc. are not relevant to the actual issue. All of this occurred because we as a community were looking out for a friend , when something looked to good to be true. With the problems in the past with Mohammed Mohammed, and a gentleman from North Carolina that scammed us and Andy in Washington, it is only natural for us to take care of our own. Hope this helps and clears the air.

Have a great day.

 

[JonB]

Nice explanation, jon...but there still are people not fessing up...and probably never will................. Scot also just told me that he JUST installed Belangers on a 2002 FE GTS....HMMMM whose Viper is that...could be valuable info!!! To verify originality...vs knock offs......why don't you check into it....that could tell the story

Dave, I only care that YOU and others know I was just trying to help and protect YOU first, and me in a peripheral way. I certainly don't intend to 'check into it' further!

But Belanger's denial of RMS aside, consider for yourself:

---I have many cancelled checks to PROVE to a neutral 3rd party that PartsRack is a Belanger dealer with hundreds of headers sold. Simple. Can others prove they are truly a distributor ?

---With permission, I could cite numerous happy clients that could 'prove' PartsRack to be a bonafide Belanger dealer. Can others prove it?

--- If I was already claiming to be a distributor prior, why would I post a new letter from Belanger DENYING my application to BECOME a distributor now?

You are correct Dave that Belanger may have been patting me on the back, but I certainly was NOT trying in any way to stop a deal. I was also trying to investigate as Bill did the same fish-story that Bill P heard from you! THERE WAS NO DEAL! I believe Belanger.

THANKS BILL P for your calm statement of facts.

 

[STUGOTS]

Well i do not own belanger headers (i have stock at the time actually)but i have made a few orders with Jon @ Parts-Rack and have been VERY satisfied. I mean there was 1 case (jon im sure you will remember this) when i was an idiot and orderd chrome a/c knobs on my 99 R/T and jon calls me up and says 'are you sure you want chrome on the 99 everythings satin finish' so i changed my order but i mean he diden't have to call hell most venders would not have called and took the money and set em but he took the time and he was right chrome would have looked terrible. My point is he has been one of the few vendors that are loyal to the viper owners why would he start messing that up now? Think about it viper owners are a VERY small comminity so why would he risk losing a few valued customers that woulden't make any sense. I don't know about the situation at hand in the least other then what i have read but as far as how Jon B did business with me its an A+ and i can only speak for myself

 

[JDR]

I wish I was in the market to get something for the viper today... I'd be buying it from PartsRack – they’ve always treated me and the people I know 100% RIGHT.

Paying a few dollars more is NOTHING, considering the free consulting from someone who knows! Heck, I'd pay $100 more on $1k+ product to know I was buying the RIGHT product.

AND… I know that means JonB isn’t going to raise his prices. As a businessman, he’ll always be in alignment with the current market – just like all the others who are really in the SPECIALITY Viper business.

If I want to pay less for mass-produced parts, I’d go by a ‘vette.

All this mud-slinging is a big joke... simple fact, as Bill said, something looked too good to be true, and it was - so what's the big surprise? Turning this in to a witch hunt has nothing more than low-class entertainment value.

As for the "how to run a business" comments, look up "Gross Profit" vs. "Net Profit", and stop getting the two confused! - Complaining about their gross profits, with no clue about the costs to develop, make, and sell these parts is sadly ignorant.

Lastly, "Ditto" on Stu's comments.

 

[Rollin4]

This is definitely a case for Columbo or Monk. There is sure alot of finger pointing going on. To Scott at RMS I believe I owe you an apology for going along when this post started, and I wish to extend that now.It seems like this was a deal to save some money for Viper owners that went wrong somewhere. Most of my dealings for Viper parts have been with Scott @ Elite,JonB @ PartsRack and Chuck @ Tator's Dodge. These individuals are true professionals when it comes to Viper's, and will take time to answer your questions about this and that. I WILL continue to spend my dollars at their business,and contact them first for what I need, because they have a proven track record in my book.If I get screwed over by someone that's it, no matter how good a deal it "is" or "was" they won't get my money again.I believe in dealing with people I can trust.

 

[STUGOTS]

All i wanna say is this i just placed another order with Jon B about 20 mins ago and i REALLY honestly cannot see this man involved in a scam in the least. I will put it to you all like this i have orderd mods and parts from quite a few vendors and i have to say the 2 ABSOLUTE BEST have got to be Parts rack and Roe racing by a landslide and chuck Tator who in my opinion is the man. Not at all to discredit any of the other vendors because there are some that i have never orderd from such as BTR and Westcoast in which i have heard many good thing about. The point is this is a guy who has served the viper community since before most of us even owned a damm viper and still has great prices so to discredit this man is bull sh*t but you know what even if people try to drag his good name through the mud, we loyal customers will still buy from him

 

[BadVenm]

Okay, it's been a couple of days since I've said anything on this topic, and I was pretty vocal about my displeasure in the behavior our vendor has been accused of.

My posts are not anonymous, nor am I hiding in any way. My name is in bold letters at the bottom of every post I make and that even takes someone to a website with photos of me and it even states where to find me. So when I make a post, I believe in what I'm saying. Other than that one time...that one time at band camp.....errr huh.....

Jon B picked up the phone and called me about this topic and about my posts. Jon said he was upset with my posts, mostly because he felt I would have been in his top 10 list of people who would defend him in this type of a situation.

I've had a great relationship with Jon in the past. When I got my first RT-10 I spent over $25K with Jon B, maybe even $30K in a 1 month or 2 month time frame. We spoke often and e-mailed often. And I continue to purchase from Jon B including an order placed just before this topic came up.

I told Jon that him making a phone call to me meant a lot in my book, because so many people are willing to e-mail a nasty gram but don't have the guts to confront people face to face.

But I told Jon he needed to post a reply for himself, because his silence was killing him, IMO. I told him Lou B needed to post a reply as well, Jon said Lou B is not computer savvy and does not spend time reading and posting on websites. So I'm guessing we won't hear from Lou B.

I was very vocal on this topic because just a couple days before this came up, my best friend who is in competiton to some degree with Jon B, told me about a deal where Jon B "took him out of a sale" on exhaust items. So, when I read 2BADD 4U telling us he heard Jon B on the phone call with LouB and felt that he witnessed the deal get killed, I flew off the handle. However, my buddy will be the first to say that what happened to him is just business, that's life. He said he's sure he's done that same thing to Jon B.

Out of respect I should have called Jon B before my posts hit the air. But Jon, understand that when we were dealing with the quote from 2BADD 4U, you were nowhere to be found, no posts, nothing....what were we all to think? Silence was not golden in this case, it was deadly.

What does 2BADD 4U have to gain by saying he heard you pressure Lou B, or he could read between the lines in your call to Lou B? He says Lou B was clearly conforming to you in the call.

Yet you said something to me in our phone conversation that I agree with you on, why would you kill a deal with a witness? If that was your intention you would have done it quietly with no one to witness it and you would not been attached to it.

What Bill P posted has a ring of real common sence to it. That is something I can buy into.

I can also buy into the witch hunt theory. Once things went bad we were all looking to hang someone. The guy who never responded was easy to hang and it got pretty bad pretty quick.

I don't know RMS, Viper23, 2BADD 4U, or Lou B. But I have had a relationship with you, Jon, for a few years. You always took care of me and my needs, flawlessly. I can say, that when I read this the first time, I was in shock, I would have never suspected this kind of thing from you.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, fault, no fault, or just a good deed gone wildly wrong, I'm erasing all this mess from my brain and moving forward as if it never happened.

You will still get a call for quotes, hell, if your low I might even give you the business over my local buddy!

Don't mind that wondering eye next time we speak, that's just the eyes I've installed in the back of my head to keep an eye on you at all times!

 

[jimandela]

Guys,
just call Mike Adams he can hook ya up with B&B
case closed .. going forward....

 

[BadVenm]

I will keep this short.

Lou B just called me a little while ago. He detailed the time frame of everything that happened. Lou B is a class act. One thing I can tell you all is that Lou B would never be backed down by anyone.

Lou B did give credit to Scott at RMS for being an aggressive young business man. Lou said it reminded him of himself when he was young, but Scott at RMS just put the cart in front of the horse trying to put together a deal for all of us. Scott was not pulling a scam, he was just over aggressive, per Lou B.

Lou B thought that maybe Scott kept trying to get a deal together thinking he could talk Lou B into a deal after he got 10 buyers lined up.

Belanger headers for my Vipers, as always!

I'm done with this thread....I promise!

 

[Shelby3]

I will keep this short.

Lou B just called me a little while ago. He detailed the time frame of everything that happened. Lou B is a class act. One thing I can tell you all is that Lou B would never be backed down by anyone.

Lou B did give credit to Scott at RMS for being an aggressive young business man. Lou said it reminded him of himself when he was young, but Scott at RMS just put the cart in front of the horse trying to put together a deal for all of us. Scott was not pulling a scam, he was just over aggressive, per Lou B.

Lou B thought that maybe Scott kept trying to get a deal together thinking he could talk Lou B into a deal after he got 10 buyers lined up.

Belanger headers for my Vipers, as always!

I'm done with this thread....I promise!

Great! Now all that needs to happen is for Scott to come on the board and admit that Lou B and JonB weren't the bads guys in this one. He has still left it as though Lou B is a liar. Did I mention that I love my Belanger headers?