Roe's cats vs. Random Tech's

Sean Roe

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The material is ceramic.
I've used a blow torch to try and make it burn.
Contaminants in it from leaking exhaust could smolder, but not the material itself.
 

IEATVETS

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I am one of the "few" that had problems with the RT cat-back and nobody warrantied my system when I was having problems. Sure, I was offered some compensation but not 100% of the purchase price because since it was installed, it was used and didn't fall within the warranty or some crap like that. How do you know if something such as an exhaust system is working properly without installing it? Long story short, took off the RT system, put on a much better cat-back exhaust, ate the 1K that I spent for the RT and will never buy from the 2 parties involved. I will spend a little more and deal with people who actually respect my business and stand behind the products they sell 100%. Rant over.:mad:
 

Dimitrios

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i had both roe in my RT/10 and RT's in my SRT. when the roes in my RT went Sean replaced them without a problem. when my RTs went twice (bracket problem) in my SRT JOn B and RT replaced them .
 

JonB

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..... JonB: Does metallic substrate vs. ceramic make a difference in this case? In fact, what is the difference between these two types of material for cats? As I understood it, ceramic cats are best suite for non-S.C. applications and help produce a more mellow exhaust note whereas the metallic substrate are meant for serious HP and produce a more pronounced exhaust note.....

You are correct, and please see KenH post as well for dual S/C experience.

The ONLY way you can prematurely fail a cat is to overheat it, and the primary culprit is "TOO MUCH FUEL." As Usual, Sean is CORRECT that the ceramic WONT BURN: Fuel contaminents burn, due to rich tuning...etc

RANDOM TECHNOLOGY MAKES OUR CATS, with substrate 'coated' to a higher standard of substrate 'wash' specific to RT for VIPER... Fact. They cost a BIT more, and are worth it.

Doug Levin used exclusively ceramics on his S/C applications til about 2002, when metal-cell came available. Lots of S/C cars run ceramics with no problems. I cannot speak for other brands, but Random Tech manufactures ours: 3" Metal cats flow 617 CFM each; Ceramics 426 cfm. 2.5" 382 cfm. (we call this mid-flow) Random Tech 5-year warranty.
RANDOM TECH honors the RARE, RARE warranty claim, facilitated by PartsRack as needed. Its so RARE...its almost not worth mentioning
 
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IEATVETS

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You can go ahead and mention it Jon, you know the RARE, RARE warranty claim which I had but was only offered a partial refund towards another cat-back system, I believe it was Corsa. Hell, you refered me to RT and they did exactly what you did, called me a liar in no uncertain terms and told me to live with it. A warranty claim is a warranty claim and I got shafted plain and simple.
I have kept my mouth shut for to long about this and people need to know what happens IF you have a claim against RT because contrary to what is posted about, RT DOES NOT HONOR THE RARE, RARE WARRANTY CLAIM!
 

JonB

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I am one of the "few" that had problems with the RT cat-back and nobody warrantied my system when I was having problems. Sure, I was offered some compensation but not 100% of the purchase price because since it was installed, it was used and didn't fall within the warranty or some crap like that. How do you know if something such as an exhaust system is working properly without installing it? Long story short, took off the RT system, put on a much better cat-back exhaust, ate the 1K that I spent for the RT and will never buy from the 2 parties involved. I will spend a little more and deal with people who actually respect my business and stand behind the products they sell 100%. Rant over.:mad:

RANT OVER ???

You can go ahead and mention it Jon, you know the RARE, RARE warranty claim which I had but was only offered a partial refund towards another cat-back system, I believe it was Corsa. Hell, you refered me to RT and they did exactly what you did, called me a liar in no uncertain terms and told me to live with it. A warranty claim is a warranty claim and I got shafted plain and simple. I have kept my mouth shut for to long about this and people need to know what happens IF you have a claim against RT because contrary to what is posted about, RT DOES NOT HONOR THE RARE, RARE WARRANTY CLAIM!

Duane: SINCE YOU ASKED: You insist in PM-ing individuals out of "revenge seeking" and bashing Random cats, and telling your 5% partial truths. Anyone who cares, could probably locate your alleged complaint that 'the new Random cat ran hotter than stock.' DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT?

Random told you 'the ONLY way your HF cat could be hot is some tuning issue or misfire or plug wire or coil or ??. There is NO WAY ONE CAT can run hotter.' More Facts available at Random Tech as well...ask for DAVE. DESPITE THIS:

You stated "I will admit that I don't know squat about exhaust systems or motors for that matter" and asked about a "Consumer Happiness Return policy" (Your exact words quoted exactly. ) PartsRack offered you a 90% refund-exchange on a CORSA, BELANGER or B+B! NINETY PERCENT for your USED SYSTEM, except for the 2 reducers you welded. Did I say 90% ?!? You call it a 'partial refund'..... I guess 90% IS Partial, after 3-4 mos !

We put our exchange offer in writing. We said in part: "Only the OE cat flex, and the $20 reducers need to be welded, allowing a 90% refund on the system. There is no reason you should have to cut the RT exhaust or the RT cats....just the OE cat....A 90% exchange refund for a used system........"

We later wrote: ""Duane, I usually let sleeping dogs lay, but have you decided anything on our exchange offer? [I have a system marked PENDING just in case you want to proceed......]""

You appeared happy, and You said:





In a message dated 9/24/2007 8:53:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Jon, Duane Mcgowan here, I bought the Randomtech exhaust from you and had problems with it. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I had to go out of town for a few days.
I may take you up on your offer to exchange the Randomtech cats/muffs for Corsa just let me know what you need me to do.
Talk to you soon. Duane Mcgowan
Duane, You then decided that your local WI guy who would sell you a 2.5" system (!?).
Then you wrote in part:





In a message dated 9/24/2007 10:38:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
Jon, ..No worries, I am not one to hold grudges nor would I smear your good name on the boards as others would surely do.... Duane Mcgowan ....
So, which is it Duane? I honestly feel our 90% offer after 3-4 MONTHS was fair. You continue to do 'what you do' with repeated bashing innuendo, and I just ask readers here to read my original post: I PREDICTED that a whiner would emerge, and I knew who it would likely be. Why? Because RANDOM TECH CAT PROBLEMS are EXTREMELY RARE and covered by warrantee for 5 years, I could PREDICT the Rare basher: YOU! If we had a lot of problems they would be splattered here, but instead 1-2 guys BASH AND BASH (and send untruthful *** to posters) for their own perceived revenge. More Proof: In my original post I volunteered that 2 SRt cats had bracket failures for ONE Customer. HE ALSO EMERGED AND POSTED, and confirmed our no-questions warrantee.

Finally, Duane: A member here posted a newbee question recently about the great value of the RT Cat-Back. Every post in reply was factual and was positive. But he was PMd by IEATVETS (you) with dire warnings!! He sent me your mail!! He had the intelligence to see that you had a 'private agenda' and asked about it. So we SHARED your email exchanges with him, and our warranty offer. So I THANK YOU for helping me close that sale.....and he is extremely happy with his RT CATS and CATBACK.

If anyone wants to test-drive a Random Tech exhaust for 3-4 mos, and trade it in at 90%, let me know if Im the one being the ****......You said above-top that I 'called you a liar'. Ill pay you $100 cash for that email. Id even be HAPPY to run all our emails past an impartial MEDIATOR, and confident at what they would see, and of my 100% truthfulness here.

Sorry for having to defend myself on this SAME GUY, YET AGAIN....
 
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plumcrazy

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personally i think ANY PM OR EMAIL should remain private between the two parties involved and never be quoted,passed around etc......

not enough privacy at times on the message boards
 

IEATVETS

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This is great, the truth finally comes out. 90% is not 100% in my mind. Yes, I did say those things, so what? People need to know what has happened and to buy with caution! I also don't need to smear your good name Jon, somehow you do that all by yourself with your attitude. It changes more than I change my underwear! I just get sick and tired of people not treating customers in the manner that they deserve. I don't know about you and your business but my customers come first, if they have a problem, I fix it with no questions. I came to you with a problem I had with something that I bought from you and I got the third degree. I want to apologize as well, it was Kevin(?) at RT that didn't believe me and basically called me a liar, not Jon. Sorry. Anyways, we will agree to disagree on this subject and will not get anywhere. Bottom line is this, your offer was not good enough for me and I should have been entitled to 100% which is what a warranty is. I am glad that you are still selling the less expense RT systems and that people are having good luck with it, I sure didn't.
 

ViperTony

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personally i think ANY PM OR EMAIL should remain private between the two parties involved and never be quoted,passed around etc......

not enough privacy at times on the message boards

Privacy is a scarce luxury these days it seems. PM's are just that, private. But emails are another story. Once an email leaves your computer its public so I guess never send anything in an email you don't want others to read. As far as tact and common sense, decency in not sharing those emails...I agree with you Plum.

But...I'm getting sick of reading this crap in the middle of good threads. We finally get going on a good technical discussion on cat components/design and have to read through this b.s. If anyone feels the need to remove a huge gnat from their ass with a vendor or customer do it in a new thread at the very least. Better yet, take it offline. This particular issue sounds like it would've been resolved with a phone call. Let's get back to the topic at hand.

TOPIC AT HAND: Cats. It was mentioned here earlier that the type of clamp makes a difference in securing cats properly and preventing leaks. I've been using strap clamps but I'm fairly certain I have leaks with them because they're not strong enough to actually tighten the cat inlet tight enough around exhaust pipe. I see carbon buildup around the clamp and smell exhaust fumes when getting on WOT so I suspect this may be my culprit. Before I decide to weld these joints, what are the proper clamps to use here? TORCA clamps? I'm using RT 3" ceramics cats coupled to a Belanger catback and headers.
 
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dave6666

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I'm going to have to agree with what has been said that clamps just cannot give you the 100% seal. Yes, better fitment and stronger clamps can reduce leakage, but it seems like to guarantee no leaks you have to weld.

With all of the sales deals going on here I'm fixing to take my GTS to side exhaust. Headers should arrive today, but the rest of the stuff to cram in the sills I have not ordered yet. Point is, when I see it all and start hanging it on the car, I'm gonna need to make a decision. Weld and make permanent, or clamp and have small leaks.

I have seen some claim that you wrap under the clamp with aluminum foil or muffler tape. I just keep the windows up...
 

Catwood

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Privacy is a scarce luxury these .....yada yada....stuff cut.... catback and headers.

Where's the rep button at this place.

I'd give you some...

I run stock except for headers and track my car. I have a deal pending on my car but if that doesn't happen I will most likely put on the 3" metal cats. I figure less restrictive flow is better. I'll also probably install a small set of mufflers (Lobak) behind them while it's apart. Everything is currently 3" so I'll keep it that way. The Belanger cat back and mufflers are getting real loud and it's getting to the point I should be wearing earplugs at the track to save what little hearing I have left.

I've blown out at least one of my cats. Not sure if it was due to the insulation, which I liked, the NVH of few miles I've done at the track or just plain worn out. But it's time to figure out a plan to replace.

Carl
 

All Blue ACR

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I have been following this thread as it is of particular interest to me right now as I have the sills off and debating the appropriate mod. Though the thread was sidetracked for awhile, the sidetrack shed light on comments in earlier threads that were hindering my final decision.
Jon, expect a call for an exhaust.
 

HI-NOS-Viper

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DC Performance and others that have probably installed close to 100 or more of these systems can you chime in here please? Again I have heard problems about the clamps and want clarification on this, not taking away from anyone else that has given input in this thread, I would like to hear from the installers that have done tons of these systems, and am sure DC performance has.
 

Dan Cragin

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I have had a lot of experience with aftermarket catalytic converters in the past. It seems there is a lot of controversy over what to use. There are many things to consider when choosing a catalyst. Power, emissions, longevity and heat seem to be the major concerns. Here is what I have found; your experience may be different.

POWER- The production converters on the Viper are made to last 7yrs or 100,000 miles by law. This is a rule the Federal Government has mandated for all car manufactures. Because of this, factory converters are big or numerous. The Gen 1-Gen 2 Viper use 2 large converters (about 20 inches long) and Gen 3 Viper uses 4 converters. Converters loose their effiecency over time, so for them to last 100,000 miles they need to be big. These large converters are a compromise when it comes to power. In my experience (The year matters) gains up to 15-20hp can be had by changing to high flow converters. On forced induction engines this can be as high as 60hp.

EMMISSIONS- Technically any car after 1995 has to have an OBD2 approved converter. None of the aftermarket converters are OBD 2 approved, so technically they are illegal. California is the worst for emissions woes, your car can pass emissions out the tailpipe but any performance part needs a CARB approval (an approval sticker). Without this you can fail the visual test. Other states are not as critical. Good for most is that many smog stations are Viper friendly and if your car runs clean, odds are they will pass it. Most Vipers will pass tailpipe emissions with high flow cats, but there are many exceptions. High flow converters tend to be smaller than the production type, they may reduce emissions well initially, but over time they will degrade and if could be touch and go a few years down the road. Cars with bigger cams combined with high flow converters can also fail a tailpipe emissions test.

LONGEVITY- I can only go from my experience here but what I have found is that the only converters that will last on a Viper are those with a metal grid core. This is what the factory, Random Tech and some other companies sell. Ceramic core converters just do not seem to last. The uneven firing pulses of the Viper engine break them apart. I have had to replace hundreds of ceramic cats over the years. Some may disagree with me on this, but it has been my experience.

HEAT- We all know that heat is an issue with the Viper. The large production converters put off an enormous amount of heat. The fact that the bodywork encapsulates the exhaust and the insulation radiates it into the body and foot wells of the car make it pretty toasty. We have designed vents and new insulation for the Viper to reduce this heat, but the addition of high flow cats helps dramatically. The fact that the cats are smaller means they radiate less heat and have more airflow around them.

In regards to Random Cats. I have had good results with their metal cats, I have only had a few issues over the years and they either replaced the part or redesigned it to be better.

Dan Cragin
DC Performance Inc
310-841-6996
www.dcperformance.com
 

dave6666

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Clamp leaks...

Well, while filling my new cooling system after the car had been sitting for 3 weeks, I would run it for a few minutes getting fluid moving and shut it off.

Run it some more and shut it off. Condensate drips? Well, back home, those are leaks.

Hmm.

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