SCT Questions

Discussion in 'Gen II' started by SYNFULL, Apr 22, 2010.

  1. SYNFULL

    SYNFULL Viper Owner

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    I am very interested in the sct and have some questions if anyone can answer.
    I have a vec 3 with Roe s/c 8.5 lbs- Belanger headers, no cats, roe heads, 1.7 T&D, RT exhaust, w/m injection, innovative wide band.

    Car dynoed at 639.
    I would like to car to run better in midrange and it is very rich there. I would also like to get rid of the check engine light for the rear cats.
    There isn't a lot of info out there for using the tuning software. Can I send in some of my vec 3 logs and get a tune on the sct made up from that.
    I was thinking I would flash with the tune from the sct and then continue using the vecs 3 for logging and closed loop tuning.

    Thanks
    Gary
     
  2. plumcrazy

    plumcrazy Viper Owner

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    call daniel lesser at viper specialty
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Enthusiast

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    That is pretty much what I am doing. I am using the SCT to take care of some part throttle drivability issues and check engine lights but still using the VEC2 for WOT tuning at least for now.

    The SCT software is not easy to use. Recommend you use someone like Daniel or DC Performance. DC was able to work from my vague description over the phone to fix most of my issues.
     
  4. SYNFULL

    SYNFULL Viper Owner

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    That's what I was thinking Ken. I'm really not interested in learning how to tune with the sct software. The vec was and is hard enough for me.
    Thanks
     
  5. SquadX

    SquadX Enthusiast

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    im looking to do the same but with a flashed PCM (current) and then the SCT. Dan and DC Perf. said it can be done. I like the fact that I can just upload a tune from the SCT instead of having ship my entire PCM out.
     
  6. Joseph Dell

    Joseph Dell Enthusiast

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    With the SCT, even if you get the most basic system, Dan Lesser (who I got mine from) can email you new tunes. So it isn't a ship-back situation. Highly recommend Dan, btw...
     
  7. Jack B

    Jack B Enthusiast

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    This software is not difficult it is very similar to HPTuners (GM/Ford) and LS Edit, both of those have been around for 15 years. You are merely trying to achieve an ideal a/f ratio in both open and closed loop.

    We will all have different mods and priorities, therefore, different needs, with that in mind here are some of the changes that were made to my 97. There are a whole bunch of minor changes that can be made, the following are the basics:

    1. Raised idle to 750 rpm - Idle folder, changed 60 degree C cell to 750.

    2. For the drag strip I changed the high speed fan parameters so that the low speed temp is maintained at 180 - environment folder.

    3 To get the a/f correct for mods at partial throttle (driveability) you have to modify the "Fuel Table with EGR and No EGR" This is the key to starting the tune. This also affects wot operation.

    a. You start this part of the tune by turning off the LTFT. (Turn it back on when you are done). This is done is in the "Adaptive Learning" folder by changing the on/off switches. This now forces the car (in closed loop) to only use the STFT. I also changed the closed loop upper limit to extend the rpm range in closed loop.

    b. You can now use the Palmer Engineering OBD software to build tables of STFT versus rpm and load.

    c. You then take the Palmer table data and modify the appropriate cells in the "on/off EGR Fuel tables" in SCT.

    d. If you have changed injectors you should already have changed the above table to approximate your increase in injector size. This is done prior to modifying the table relative to tuning with the Palmer software. In other words it is a two part process, changes due to your injectors and then changes from your road tune. There are also other parameters that must be changed due to injectors. Theyare fuel related and have an impact but are less significant.

    When you use the Palmer table logging software all you have to do is drive the car for about 30 minutes at different rpm/load combinations. This will generate a table log of your STFT, in affect the changes you must make.


    4. Once you get your STFT's close to +/-7.5% (that is arbitrary) you now start refining the tune. If you have major mods you will be shocked on how far out the STFT's are.

    A. I then moved to the Fuel Table/Power Enrichment Multipliers - this is basically a WOT modifier to achieve the correct a/f. I like 12.5 NA and 11.0 on the bottle under WOT, however, each to his own.

    B.You should now have an ideal a/f ratio during closed and open loop, however, if you have a hesitation or stumble you might have to go the the AE Fuel folder and adjust some values within that folder to fix the hesitation. If Fuel EGR was done correctly you probably won't have to make many modifications here.

    5. One of the last changes should be to the timing, this is done in the "Spark When Warm", Spark with EGR" and Spark with no EGR. Each to his own in defining the ideal values.

    IMHO unless you have aftermarket widebands don't bother with the software. One last item, once you get the STFT deviations in the Palmer software, if you pay attention to the total pulsewidth, your cell changes will result in exactly what your target is. In other words it does not take many tuning session to get the a/f correct. I used a spreadsheet that directly imported the Palmer values - this made the changes exact.

    The above outline is not complete nor is it the only route through the software - as was indicated when in doubt, Dan can walk you through this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
  8. BAD68GTO

    BAD68GTO Enthusiast

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    I just bought the SCT from Dan and received it. I also purchased the software but I am sending it back. if you REAd and again I advise ANYONE buying the software to READ the license agreement you are allowing them to physically come onto your property to do inspections of your books and such. It is the MOST EGREGIOUS EULA I have ever seen and I have extensive classes in business law-it is simply crazy. I am declining the agreement and sending the software back and cannot stress enough for people to read it carefully. Hell, I have done $500K deal and never saw the nonsense in this little software agreement and I myself own copyrighted software that I sell.

    I love to tune and still learning, but on the intermendiate level at this point in my life wiht my VEC. I have used Dan @ Viper Specialty before and been happy, so probably only need a good base and all will be good as I am done modding my GEN II. Car drives good, has great power, but just want a little better driving and hope to correct an ongoing idle issue, so doing that and the injectors I purchased from Viper Speciality to do a final tune. Anyhow, happy to get this but just wanted to have folks read the agreement is all before they blindly signed it.....
     
  9. SYNFULL

    SYNFULL Viper Owner

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    I just wanted to thank Jack for the detailed write up. I know it's a little late but thanks!
     
  10. Black Moon

    Black Moon Viper Owner

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    My input is late as well but is an endorsement of Dan at VSP. I bought the SCT from him and he sent me a tune that woke up my gen3. It felt like I dropped in a gen4. Couldn't be happier. I just put on a Paxton and bigger injectors so he's working on that tune now. Great work and very reasonable.
     
  11. EllowViper

    EllowViper Viper Owner

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    Just got my SCT and Pro-Racer software. So far so good. Into the various tables and scalers in the stock tune. Not too terrible to navigate and somewhat intuitive. I did run into one huccup with the idle speed. When I try to change it from the stock load...say 704 to 896 RPMs when warm @ 60C (like Jack decribes above), I get a field error stating the max value is 255. Can't seem to get that figured out. And once you change the stock idle value, you can't change it back (states 255 is the max value). So I'm stuck trying to sort through that right now.
     
  12. SYNFULL

    SYNFULL Viper Owner

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    Good Luck- Let us know how you make out.
     
  13. EllowViper

    EllowViper Viper Owner

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    Was able to change the idle values using the "+" and "-" buttons in the software. Never could just put the idle value in the data field without getting the 255 max value error. Messing with other variables and using the VEC right now for injector scaling and WOT tuning. GOing to try and scale the stock values for the larger injectors and 2 bar map and see what that does. Goal is to get the VEC out of the system since it still seems to be acting up when hot. I was surpised not to find tables with MAP voltage values and TPS voltage values.
     
  14. Jack B

    Jack B Enthusiast

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    Elaborate, the rpm is a direct numeric change.
     
  15. EllowViper

    EllowViper Viper Owner

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    One would think so. When I try to just change the RPM from the stock value of 704 to 800 for instance, I get an error code that states the maximum value for the field is 255...and it does not accept the change. That indicates to me that an octal value is being converted at some point into RPM. If I put 100 in the little value window in the upper right corner of the software and then hit the +/- buttons, it will "scroll" through some strange values...like 325, 1850, 1021, 930, 850, etcetera. Almost like a random list of available values. At this point, I selected 850 when it popped up and went with that. This happened in a few other areas of the software as well. It won't accept a manually entered value but will scroll through some generated values if you put a number in the little window and hit the +/- button. Really weird...almost like the values are being generated or based on some internal computational table that I can't see. Other than that workaround, seems to be working out OK. Haven't cracked the code on physically scaling the injector tables for larger injectors and am using my VEC to still do that.
     
  16. MTGTS

    MTGTS Viper Owner

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    I just had Larry Macedo Macedo retune my car with the SCT. He picked up 15hp and 10tq over the tune that it came with from the tuner I purchased it from. I suggest getting it tuned by someone that knows what they are doing while it's on a dyno. You can get close with email tunes, but if you want it perfect I would suggest you get on a dyno.
     
  17. EllowViper

    EllowViper Viper Owner

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    Did Larry move into a another new shop? I stopped in during January to chit chat, but I had heard recently that he moved again...maybe just down the alley a bit. I know his "land lord" was a real *****. He stopped in during my visit and was giving Larry grief.
     
  18. MTGTS

    MTGTS Viper Owner

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    He is moving to another shop. He is in the process @ the moment
     
  19. EllowViper

    EllowViper Viper Owner

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    Good to know. I feel bad for Larry. Lots of crap this past year or so that has been a real distraction. Economy hit him pretty hard too. Still though, he still has the time to tell sroties and showcase some of his shop projects. Fuelman's TT GTS was just about done in Jan. I assume its out of there by now.
     
  20. MTGTS

    MTGTS Viper Owner

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    It wasn't @ the old shop, I would guess it's done as well.
     
  21. ucfCIVIL31

    ucfCIVIL31 Viper Owner

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    Larry has fully moved into his new shop, I was there this weekend. The address can be found on his website. It's not more than 10 mins from the up shop up Ronald Regan just north of SR 434.
     
  22. SRT101969

    SRT101969 VCA Member - International

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    "c. You then take the Palmer table data and modify the appropriate cells in the "on/off EGR Fuel tables" in SCT"

    OK, trying to do my first cutom tune. How do you know when STATUS EGR is ON/OFF in order to modify cells?
    As far as I collected info, modify cells USING WIDEBAND AS DATALOGGER in this order:
    1. With engine at idle.
    2. Crusing, light throttle.
    3. Moderate throttle.
    4. WOT, from 1500 to 6000rpms 3rd gear (if AFR above 12.5 stop!).

    So again, How do I know which EGR OFF or ON cells to modify in each of above 4 scenarios?:dunno:


     
  23. DaJerseyViper

    DaJerseyViper Enthusiast

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    Did your software come with any help files related to Chrylser/Dodge tuning? Mine came with nothing but Ford Tuning help files..There are a ton of things I want to know about the software before I even attempt to tune it myself. The software looks a bit confusing at first...
     
  24. DaJerseyViper

    DaJerseyViper Enthusiast

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    Nothing huh?
     
  25. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

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    The number of people out there who truly understand this software can be counted on your hands. Most of them, are in the Viper tuning business. Unfortunately, giving away SCT tuning instructions does little more than handing out free knowledge which they had to pay for with their time and money to develop and learn. It also opens the door for other tuners to start copying their work and/or learn the software without having invested anything at the expense of the original tuner. Ask me how I know. I will NEVER again help another tuner directly on such things, supply .MTF files, or publicly post details beyond the plainly obvious. It sucks, but you are walking no different of a path than I did back 6 or 7 years ago. Call it a right of passage.

    Its one thing when the market is common and obvious with tons of manufacturer help. Its another thing when you have spent more time than you can imagine to develop a knowledge base that nobody else has. Its a form of intellectual property, and probably the most overlooked asset in this business. It doesnt matter how fancy your shop is, how good your tools are, or how much you can sell a customer on something if you dont have the brain power and knowledge base to back it up. Also a big reason why some of the best builds out there do not come out of the big fancy shops.

    Lastly, I would assume that you did not purchase this Pro Racer Package from a Viper tuner, or you would be asking them these questions. If that is the case, you reap what you sow; you saved money at your own expense... a common problem in this market these days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  26. DaJerseyViper

    DaJerseyViper Enthusiast

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    I purchased it from a buddy who is an SCT tuner of Fords to simply be able to modify my own tunes as I go and not be at the whim of a tuner, I asked him if he wanted to try and tune my car and he expressed no real interest in learning the Chrysler stuff. I have nor ever had any intention of any type of business of my own, nor will I ever again venture into the aftermarket realm..I simply purchased the software cause I did not want to be at the mercy of a specialty shop with my own car, I wanted to be able to tweak as I go on my own. Call me stubborn, but I figured how hard could it be.

    Taking one look at the software, it is very hard to navigate. There is no explanation of what is what, why you modify it,what the value represents,ect,ect..I just dont like trial and error, I want to know the field I am modifying and why I am modifying it. I dont want someone else's MTF files, i just wanna know how to use the darn software to do what I want it to do.

    I called SCT and they tyhemselves have no clue how to use the software and don't have any manuals to go with it..How in the world do you publicly sell a product that you not only have no instruction manuals for, but your techs themselves have no clue how to use...That simply amazes me..
    If SCT had one ounce of support for this software it would not be as discouraging, I was told by them to search their forums, and you could imagine my dismay when I saw you were the only one posting on there and havent posted there in over 7 years..So I figured you either had no time to post on there, or something went south with your agreement with them.

    I dont know what you and Dave's beef with me is, I didnt come on the forums to take anything away form you guys and was nothing but respectful to you. I dont have a ton of money to be throwing at this car, Im just and average guy and gonna save a buck or two where I can if I have connections to do so. I was in the industry for a while and absolutely hate it and hate the egos and the games that are played between shops and customers. Im simply gonna return this software and throw a cat back exhaust on the car instead, its not worth the aggravation to me at this point..
     
  27. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

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    I didnt even realize it was you until I saw this reply. My reply to you is the same as it would have been to anyone else. It is what it is.

    The VA thing has nothing to do with you as a person- I am sure you are a nice guy. But you hopped into a thread, without even reading it, WAY late to the party, and then not only threw out topic after topic that was already covered, but insisted on arguing with people who know a great deal more about these cars than you do. Thats not how you make friends, especially on VA.
     
  28. DaJerseyViper

    DaJerseyViper Enthusiast

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    I was respectful with my inputs,and was called names by many. That forum seems to promote a hostile environment towards anyone new. I agree that you are far more knowledgeable than me and never questioned that aspect, but I have my opinions on what the issue was/is. I was simply trying to help and probably should have read the entire thread before commenting. Did you guys ever figure out the issue BTW?

    FWIW I am returning the software as SCT themselves admittedly know they can be of no assistance in giving me as a customer technical advice..Im simply gonna buy a basic mail order tune from someone, as I only plan on adding test pipes and possibly an exhaust. Who would you recommend besides you, as I kind of dont want to get involved with you because of the VA thread. Dave's response and general attitude, along with your alliance to him would prevent me from doing business with you, even if you have a superior product which you probably do. Im sure your a nice guy and have a great product, I just got a bad taste in my mouth from that thread and my treatment on VA by you and the boys..no offense meant..Im just a man of principal and have stubborn pride. I was thinking ROE racing? Any input?
     
  29. DaJerseyViper

    DaJerseyViper Enthusiast

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    And I figured something went south with you and SCT as you abruptly stopped working with them on the forums 7 years ago..
     
  30. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

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    Again, the problem was that you kept beating a very dead horse, well after you were asked to drop it. We were plenty respectful to you until you kept on, and on, and on. It is what it is, and yes, the VA is very hostile. That's actually the point. With regard to the problem, we know full well what it is, which you still refuse to accept. We have moved the sensors and eliminated the problem from causing a tuning issue at this point.

    With regard to not working with us, that is fine, but I will stay out of any referrals.
     

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