"Smartglass" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

[jwwiii]

\"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Hello;

The "smartglass" is cool and normally works well. Somewhat frequently, I close the door, and the window glass thwacks against the rubber water gasket and the top! I'm afraid it could actually break the glass if it is a cold day.

Now, I figure the "Smartglass" motor/servo thing has some sort of a "cycle" it goes through; meaning something like if you depress the door handle, the glass lowers in a blink to allow the door to open without vacuum in the cockpit. What I don't know, is if I am somehow causing it to malfunction when I close the door? I assume the "smartglass" stays DOWN, expecting you to close the door after opening it. Maybe, if the door "handle" is pushed in unintentionally, it raises back up, and... thwak!

This has happened fairly frequently, and I am wondering if the malfunction is triggered by an attempt to close the door (which must be closed fast enough to be really closed) and I find it didn't close the whole way... so I close the door again.

The new SRT is still "tight" in the air-seal department, and it may loosen up and allow the door to close easier. If any of you have experienced this and can explain what may be my problem, it would be appreciated. The door fits very well, and the seal is excellent; it is just that the window seems to have reverted to it's "up" position when it should still be "down" to allow me to close the door without pressure lock.

Sorry if this description is confusing, as I read the manual closely.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Wow. Thought I was the only one. I have a similar problem where the glass sometimes whacks the hard plastic front windshield pillar. The window isn't smart enough to pull down far enought to clear the pillar. I think it will someday break the glass, so been closing the door by slightly dropping the window, more than the smart glass will allow.

It seems there should be some sort of adjustment, but don't want to remove the door panel to inspect, because they never go back the same way with the same damaged fasteners.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Well, while my headlight alignment isn't as pretty as Frank's, the windows seem to work flawlessly. Having done numerous "demos" with the car, it has yet to have a problem on either side (knocking on wood). Cool feature!

Chris

 

[jwwiii]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Frank and Chris;

THANKS FO LETTING ME KNOW I'M NOT DOING SOMETHING WRONG!

Yes Frank, my window hits the window "pillar". Thanks for reminding me of how to describe it. I feel also that it WILL break the window on a cold day if I forget to MANUALLY open the window. I have also discovered that that is the answer until I get it to the dealership to get some adjustments made (if any?).

I think this topic is worth keeping at the top of the site list, as others may not have read this yet.

Do you guys think that there is a "timed period" programmed into the "smartglass" system that only keeps the glass "down" for a short period,ie (get out of the car and close the door quickly)? My first experience with this problem occured WHEN I WAS DETAILING THE SRT, so I had the door open as I Zaino'ed the sills, cleaned windows, dusted the dash, etc; then, all done, closed door, and THWAK! It's not THAT loud, but I sure noticed that the window was OUTSIDE the weather stripping and didn't get to seal. Maybe I have an "electrically Challenged" Smart Glass circuit.

How do we find any "Technical Service Bullitins" on this issue? I have not even had the SRT in for an oil change yet, and everything else has so far been PERFECT, with ONE OTHER EXCEPTION:

The little body colored triangular trim panel right behind the Black louvers (the panel DIRECTLY in front of the doors) are kind of loosely fit, and rattle at the lightest tap. I discovered this while polishing the SRT. They seem like they might be almost a "push to fit" panel? Perhaps a little "light duty" (not too gluey) silicone applied to the back of the panel (when removed) would stop the rattle and still be easily removeable. BOTH of the panels on my SRT do this. I THINK I can hear it when I go over some train-tracks slowly with the window down. PLEASE check yours out by tapping them and tell me if your Vipers panels rattle like mine, OK?

I LOVE this SRT, and I wouldn't go back to the older GEN Vipers after getting 505 miles behind the wheel so far (no offense intended to others at all!)

Help keep this topic alive until we get more reports in from others.

Thanks!

Jim

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Yep. Same thing with the side panels. They are loose, but there is a slight spring tension to them which may help a little.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

I also checked out my side panels and they are loose, but ONLY at the bottom. Feels almost like they are attached at top and spring-loaded at the bottom (the tension Frank mentioned). Haven't heard any rattles. Oh, and as long as we are talking about "problems" (might be a good time to rename this thread and cross-reference stuff like this), here are the others I have experienced:

1. Water in the driver's side reverse light. LOTS of water in the reverse light. While I did my own "fix" with some silicone sealant (and it seems to be working fine), my dealer (Woodhouse) and DC were all over this when reported. I have a replacement housing in hand to replace it myself or have it done when Woodhouse's Viper Tech (Rick Maxwell) is in town this week.

2. A rattle. There, I said it. It was a fairly large rattle that was driving me nuts, yet my passengers were of no help in trying to help diagnose it (no interest, as they were too excited by the drive itself). Put the top down on Saturday for our first real "*******" drive and I figured it out in 1/2 a block: The inside screw on the passenger visor was loose. Very loose. Grabbed by Torx driver and tightened it up. Rattle all gone!

3. Another rattle. Dang it. This one much smaller and really only heard by me (passengers say they can't hear it). Discovered it yesterday, the day after I fixed the big rattle on the visor. I am 90% sure it is coming from the latch mechanism on the roof, as it is gone when the top is down. Am grateful it is not coming from the dash, as those can be a nightmare.

And that's it! Oh, I would change a couple things if I could, but nothing major:

1. Get that old blood-pressure bulb lumbar support adjustment back. A few passengers say there isn't much lower back support. I am okay with it.

2. That silly tethered gas cap: Lose the tether or put a small hook on the inside cover to hold it while you fill up. Otherwise it is like having a small plastic wrecking ball bashing against your paint at every gas station.

3. That stick shift! Mind you, I love George at MGW like a brother and bought everything he ever sold (although he ignores me pretty much these days ), but there is a reason that almost every Viper owner buys his shift knobs: The stock one is WAY too tall! I have yet to hear of anybody actually liking it, especially after they try a short shifter. Yet DC has been putting in that same shift knob since 1999 (check out the Competition Coupe for a better shifter design). The '99-'03 knob reminds me of the Odd Rod cards I collected as a kid:

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That's about it! Hopefully I will find that last rattle, put something to hold that tether on the gas door, and change that shifter. Of course, there might be a few cosmetic changes I would make (the car isn't perfect, no matter what you hear), but overall I am EXTREMELY happy with it!

Chris

 

[Lyn Turpin]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

I just picked up my new SRT-10 last week (#551) and I am having
the same problems with the windows. Sometimes, I must shut the
door three or four times to get it to close properly. I am
afraid I am going to break something. I am now rolling my window
down slightly and then rolling back up when getting in the car.
When getting out, I find I must push the door shut and hold it with
pressure to make sure it catches properly.

Very annoying.

Lyn Turpin

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Sounds like an adjustment issue. BMW has had this system for years (1998 Z3 coupe) , and I assume Mercedes (DC) has used it on some of their cars as well (can anyone confirm which years and models?) If the side glass or the door position is out of spec. then you can break the glass. It may be that DC was so concerned about water leaks and wind noise that they specified the window too high and the pre-load too tight. This would cause big problems. I hope they get this fixed soon, or quite a few SRT's may be driving with plastic side curtains.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

I just picked up my new SRT-10 last week (#551) and I am having
the same problems with the windows. Sometimes, I must shut the
door three or four times to get it to close properly. I am
afraid I am going to break something. I am now rolling my window
down slightly and then rolling back up when getting in the car.
When getting out, I find I must push the door shut and hold it with
pressure to make sure it catches properly.

It sounds to me like a normal car and not a problem with the windows per se. I think most of the cars are taking a little extra effort to close the doors because of the seals. On mine, I have to put some serious grunt into the driver's door to get it to latch (forget what my mom told me about slamming doors). The passenger door is no problem. I think Frank's is the opposite, in that the passenger door takes a pretty good shove to get closed properly when the windows are up.

The key for me is to check to make sure the window is indeed just a bit down, which in my case is the way it was done by design (I don't have to put it down manually). What I do is look at the open door and make sure that the window shows a little gap from the edge of the outside weather strip. Like this:

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This same gap translates to a much bigger gap up on top and at the A-pillar. My biggest concern would be if the window ever hit the A-pillar, as that is fixed and very hard. Most likely a window breaker. To date (knocking on wood), mine has never come even slightly close on either side. The window drops that 1/2 inch or so and stays dropped for the duration the door is open. I would also note that the car does seem to have a few timers on it (radio, lights, power, etc.), so I would not be shocked if there was a timer on the door glass if it is left open long enough. I may leave mine open for a little bit and see what happens.

Again, my driver's door takes a good slam to shut tight. Doesn't bother me in the least and I figure it just has a tighter seal. Having restored a couple cars before and put in brand-new moldings, they too were tough to close for a while until they were broken in a bit. I would just watch that glass and make sure it is clearing the A-pillar. Otherwise I think you have a new car with good seals that needs a good shove to close the doors. If it was the opposite (closed with a feather touch), I can only imagine the wind noise you would end up with. I will take that solid seal any day!

Chris

 

[jwwiii]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Hello again;

Yes, it seems as though I am not alone with the window thing.

I have been closely observing the window when I close the door, and have determined that: the "smartglass" is performing correctly about 50% of the attemped closings. Since the air pressure and seal is so GOOD, one MUST use a good amount of "swing speed" to get the door fully closed in one attempt.

The problem with making a "safe" close, is that it is near impossible to check beforehand if the "smartglass" has the window in the "down" or "ready to be closed position". It happens VERY fast! I focus on the window and it's upper right corner where it is going to meet the rubber seal on the folding top. It sure does go up in a flash... even on a thwacking close attempt where the window DID NOT make it under the seal. The front top (pointing towards windshield)is the part that seems to take the brunt of the blow.

My door appears to be aligned perfectly, so I figure that there must be a way to make sure the window is in the "ready to close" position. I have not tried this yet, but I think I might try opening the door and PRESSING THE DOOR RELEASE HANDLE, AND SEE IF THE WINDOW MOVES. I may use a white Crayon, and mark the glass at the bottom as a reference. MAYBE, I can determine if the "smartglass" has a "behavior" I can monitor to ENSURE a "safe close"! If this WORKS, I will post how to make sure NOT to break a window. I dread the thought of being at the gas station (or anywhere with folks watching) closing my door, and, EXPLODO WINDOW shatters in a rain of 1/4" pieces all over the place (hear the giggles and laughs from the guy in the Porsche filling up next to you) NOT!

If anybody has the "smartglass" programmed behavior figured out already, PLEASE tell us about it soon!

Maybe we should have a contest for the first owner to have the exploding window, and take up a collection (Joe House can be treasurer, and keeper of funds!).

Keep those reports coming in folks, and maybe a D/C guru will answer this for us!

Sorry my post is so long, but I think someone is going to break a window in short order; we DO need some answers on this phenomenon.

Jim

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

I have observed the behavior of both windows for the past two weeks, and the passenger definitely drops further than the drivers side. And, I find it VERY hard to see the driver side drop, because it has noticeably LESS drop. If I am VERY observant, I can see the driver side go up just a little after the door is closed.

For the last week, after leaving the car, I have been closing the driver side by pushing on the bottom of the glass. I believe that forces the top of the glass inward, thereby allowing the top to safely reach "home" before the smart part takes place. It hasn't failed since I have used that method. But, that won't work when inside the car, in which case, I must drop the window more than the smart part.

I'm going to limp by until they come out with a recall.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Daffy Duck's infinite wisdom -

A solution to every Viper owner's Smartglass problem:

It's called (drum roll please)..................................Leave The Top Down.

(I mean, it is designed to be a convertible, after all.)



I know, I know, it was right there all along.

Heh-heh-heh!

 

[CMG]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Same problem.

The glass works well on the passenger's door, but not on the driver's side. The force to close the passenger side door is normal. You must SLAM the driver's door.

 

[MiamiJeff]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Not sure of the purpose in their hardtops (or if their system has been perfected), but hasn't BMW been doing something like this for years?

I remember getting into a friend's M3 about four or five years ago and noticed it had a similar smart-glass system.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Again, my humble opinion in a very short post (for a change): The smart glass is fine, the door seals just require a harder shove on the door to close properly. While I am sure there may be a defect out there somewhere, I think the majority are just concerned about having to slam the doors shut. Me? I know that I am getting a tighter seal and that my windows don't touch the A-pillar (which would be my only worry if it was happening). PERFECT!

Chris

 

[8AVETTE]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

I am also having the same problem.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Yes, BMW has been doing this for years. As a quality specialist at the Spartanburg plant, I know that the adjustment is very important to get it right. The system operates on a signal from the door latch mechanism. As soon as it reads 'open', the glass should lower a specified distance or motor activation time. How much it lowers depends on the little electronic brain built into the latch. This can be adjusted. If what I hear is correct (I don't have my SRT yet) if the drivers side window isn't dropping enough, it means the time duration of the drop needs to be a few .001's of a second longer. Dodge (DC) may have a distance parameter, I'm not sure. Time makes more sense otherwise you would have to have little teeth on the track to know where the glass position was. That sounds way too high tech for a Viper. As far as the slam it cause it's new theory....I can't agree only because the whole purpose of smartglass is to make the door easy to close AND water/wind tight. If DC designed the latch to be adjustable, can we find out how? Anyone, Anyone, Bueller? If not, someone might try replacing the part and see what happens.

 

[nancyshanno]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

Fellow Viper Owners 2003 SRT/10 windows. The window motors are controlled by a body processor. This processor keeps track of outputs from each window motor. When the window motor stops travel and the processor does not see any movement for 100 ms it records those counts for memory. It also does the same thing when the window goes down. These are learned each time a window goes through a travel (from top to bottom). As the door is opened the glass drops approximately 1/2". When the door is closed the processor remembers the upper limit and closes the glass to the weatherstrip. This is done to provide a better seal against the elements. Any further questions call Woodhouse Dodge Rick Maxwell Viper technican 800-889-1893 or email [email protected]

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re:

Thanks Nancy! Wow, that is really a good way to do this! From what you said, the window is self adjusting. The only issue I see is a dead battery. How long to relearn the upper limit? One slam with a dead battery and crash!

 

[SpeedRacer]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

I have had the same problem. I noticed that if you get the door shut the first time, then you have less of a chance of it happening. But if you don't get it shut tight on the first try, it will happen almost every time you try again. I think what may be happening is that the window is starting to raise up just as the door is closing, but if you don't get it closed all the way it has already started to raise some and doesn't know to go back down again. I don't know if this is because it is also not all the way up, so it doesn't think it needs to come down at all.
I know this may not make sense, but I know that it is much more likely not to happen on the first try than on subsequent attempts. Hopefully, DC will have TSB soon.
I have tried the "relearning" thing and that doesn't help.
Lee

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Re: \"Smartglass\" weirdness on drivers side when closing door?

What I believe Nancy is saying, and you too --- the door learns to send the glass up and down as required. I have noticed that after the last time the glass went correctly, it has since done it every time. SO, it must be learning something. Hope it isn't forgetful.