Stability Control and my 2009 SRT crash

Cop Magnet

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Invalid license (suspended, revoked, expired, canceled, denied) 20,596 All of those would be legitimate troublemakers. Except maybe the expired ones. Expired but the holder was not responsible enough to renew.
No known license 10,228 Illegal aliens, underage drivers, felons, anarchists?
unknown license status 7,632 Same as above
 

NukedGTS

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Very simple solution here. You LIFT on the throttle when you lose traction. Rookies in high hp cars seem to forget that traction is a function of throttle, especially when they are involved in a race. Takes quite a bit of seat time in a sliding vehicle to know if you can pull it back straight again. I've seen dozens of guys crash their cars at the racetrack simply because they failed to lift the throttle once the tires broke loose.

Thousands of cars with traction control still wreck. It is the excessive power of the Viper that gets away from some people, not the lack of traction control. Unless it was wet or icy, this tends to be driver error.

EVERY accident is driver error. Being rainy or icy doesn't mean the driver gets a free pass, they must adjust driving speeds, etc to accomodate the conditions accordingly. Referring to these same issues as "Rookie" issues doesn't do the subject justice. I see accidents every NASCAR race I watch . . . . rookies? Lack of "Seat time"?
 

Janni

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Would you prefer we used the phrase "ran out of talent"? ;)

You can certainly have a mechanical failure that would cause an accident and it would not be classed as driver error, IMO.
 

mTech2

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You need to be balanced and very smooth with the throttle. If you keep on the gas when the tires break loose it will walk the car around. The flip side is if you completely let off the gas in a turn you will unsettle the car and snap the back around. It is a very fine balance and best learned on the track.
 

mTech2

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Here's the fallacy in your argument: NONE of the mechanical "nannies" you mentioned try to drive the car for you. ESC and T/C do EXACTLY that; you have a computer and sensors trying to decide what you MEANT to do (as opposed to what you actually DID DO), then attempt to do it FOR you. Power steering, power brakes, and so on provide additional mechanical leverage to the driver; computerized nannies (and yes, that includes paddle shifters) attempt to take the driver out of the equation. The operative word is attempt, because unless the thing is so intrusive that it overrides everything you do, it simply can't do that; make a bad enough mistake, and the thing can't help you.

If you doubt this, try the following experiment: take a C6 Z-06 Vette to a large, wet parking lot. Leave the T/C off and AH on (the mode which most Vette drivers use in the wet). Get to about 20 mph in 2nd, and stomp the throttle. When the slide starts, counter steer into it (the AH will catch it, but NOT immediately), then go against your instincts and act like a panicked novice: over-correct hard the other way, and stab the brake. (Be sure to leave some room for the AH to catch up: you'll need it!). You will find, that despite the nanny, you just made a little bobble into a much bigger problem.

Right about now, you're going to say, "No one would actually do that on the road!". Well, you or I wouldn't; we'd make one smooth correction and that would be that; but if you believe nobody would (or has), go take a look at the vid over in the "Nannys won't save you" thread, and observe a Vette driver with questionable skills doing exactly what I just described, on the road at a higher speed. The moral: the nanny will ( at least sometimes) make a reasonably skilled driver who works with it look better; it will NOT, however, necessarily help a less competent driver who uses poor judgment, or panics, and thus fools it, or goes past its capabilities.

BTW, ESC, and T/C don't "make you faster; at best, they give you enough false confidence to TRY to be faster. Paddle shifters are arguably faster on the track-for an expert driver who can manage the car at its absolute limits. Below that level, shift speed has less effect on lap times than other factors; that is, unless we are talking about an utter novice who can't drive a stick (in which case he lacks the other skills needed to be fast anyway). On the road, well, if you're driving that fast on a public road, you're doing something you shouldn't in the first place!

On the other hand, this technology does promise one thing; eventually it will let the regulators literally drive for you, by remote control; not much fun, but hey, its the latest and best, and we'll all be safe....in a gilded cage! Coming soon to an overprotective, risk-averse, litigation-happy, and totally emasculated society near you! Ain't "progress" grand?:crazy2::mad:

This all seems like somewhat of a pointless argument because it all depends on the type of driving you are doing with the car. What is the problem with stability control if you can turn it off?

If I am on the track the last thing I would want is stability control. If you aren't driving right on the edge, then there is room to go faster. If I don't spin out every now and again then I am not pushing the car hard enough. I also prefer that my race cars don't have power steering and brakes.

However on the street it is a totally different matter. The last thing I want to do is to be going backwards at 100MPH, watching the dust cloud go by as I wonder what hard object I am going to slam into. I like power steering on my street car so I can get in and out of parking spots. Power brakes are also nice because I am never trying to calculate the latest possible point to start my braking zone. I also wouldn't view stability control kicking on in a street environment. I don't wouldn't view it as ruining my fun but rather keeping my insurance premium low. It might be a little annoying but I likely shouldn't be pushing the car that ******* the street in the first place.
 
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