Ronvpr
Viper Owner
Thanks. Money well spent.
Thinking about a Paxton, what are the requirements??
- Thread starter Fadi
- Start date
Kenneth Krieger
Viper Owner
I did my own Paxton install. The directions for the most part are great! I had a couple of questions and the Paxton "help line" was right on the money. I have a moderate amount of mechanical experience, and the greatest difficulty for me was braking loose the crank damper hold down bolt. They are torqued to 250lbs from the factory and was a bear to handle. Bought a 3/4" drive torque wrench and with another guy putting all he could onto the brakes while I'm working hard at the torque wrench, it finally broke loose. Pinning the crank was also a pain, but with patience got it done. THEN having to crank the damper bolt back down to 250lbs was the same senario altogether with a buddy in the car ******* the brakes while the bolt was torqued back to 250lbs. It was a GREAT sense of accomplishment!
If you have a GOOD working knowledge of mechanics, the correct tools, and you go by the directions, and check them off after each section, you will be able to do this job yourself. The company says between 30 and 35 hours to finish! If I did another unit I could probably do it in 20 hours. The first too me exactly 33 hours......A LOT OF TIME, AND A LOT OF WORK!!! There have been absolutely NO ISSUES to date, and with Belanger headers, high flow cats, belanger exhaust, and a DC tune....710 hp with 724lb ft of torque. It's really fast and fortunately very reliable.
If you have a GOOD working knowledge of mechanics, the correct tools, and you go by the directions, and check them off after each section, you will be able to do this job yourself. The company says between 30 and 35 hours to finish! If I did another unit I could probably do it in 20 hours. The first too me exactly 33 hours......A LOT OF TIME, AND A LOT OF WORK!!! There have been absolutely NO ISSUES to date, and with Belanger headers, high flow cats, belanger exhaust, and a DC tune....710 hp with 724lb ft of torque. It's really fast and fortunately very reliable.
I've got a Roe supercharger. It's a 6 hr instal!
What I think is the biggest advantage of the Roe is that it adds power to the entire engine output, not just after 3500rpm. Adding a Roe supercharger is like installing a 1,000 cubic inch motor without the bad gas mileage. Unfortunately, it means that even with only 600rwhp you can't let anyone drive it because it'll make 644rwtq after 2,000rpm like my 98 GTS did.
However, the Paxton is safer as it runs less power than a stocker under 3,000rpm. Easier to control and not too many traction issues. You can let inexperienced drivers drive your car.
Ted
What I think is the biggest advantage of the Roe is that it adds power to the entire engine output, not just after 3500rpm. Adding a Roe supercharger is like installing a 1,000 cubic inch motor without the bad gas mileage. Unfortunately, it means that even with only 600rwhp you can't let anyone drive it because it'll make 644rwtq after 2,000rpm like my 98 GTS did.
However, the Paxton is safer as it runs less power than a stocker under 3,000rpm. Easier to control and not too many traction issues. You can let inexperienced drivers drive your car.
Ted
ILLSMOQ
Enthusiast
that's all good except for the fact that there isn't a roe available for the gen III yet. I don't understand your statement about paxton making less power than a stocker below 3000 rpm....at 2500 rpm my car made 25 rwhp more with the paxton than it did without.
also why would you let an inexperianced driver drive any kind of Viper
Roe Racing Performance Parts
Seems that you're right, except for the SRT10 pu.
Since the Paxton is belt driven it works with rpm and turbine/compressor speed. If it doesn't make boost until 3500rpm it does cost hp to turn the compressor - that's what I meant by loses hp at lower rpms. It is a restiction in the intake system and a powerloss until it makes boost beyond what the factory engine uses. Sorry I didn't explain it better. The boost would also depend on which pulley you're using as well. The Paxton is hp at higher rpms while the Roe makes HUGE bottom end power as well as top end.
Unfortunately(?) I have 4 kids and they all had to drive my Viper - at least once. Oh, and the wife isn't a race car driver either. My car went 10.5@139mph with M. Pilots - too fast for 99% of people to drive safely.
Took my cousin for a ride up to only 100mph and thought he was having a heart attack while I was on the throttle. For a BB Chevelle guy I was surprised at his reaction.
Ted
Seems that you're right, except for the SRT10 pu.
Since the Paxton is belt driven it works with rpm and turbine/compressor speed. If it doesn't make boost until 3500rpm it does cost hp to turn the compressor - that's what I meant by loses hp at lower rpms. It is a restiction in the intake system and a powerloss until it makes boost beyond what the factory engine uses. Sorry I didn't explain it better. The boost would also depend on which pulley you're using as well. The Paxton is hp at higher rpms while the Roe makes HUGE bottom end power as well as top end.
Unfortunately(?) I have 4 kids and they all had to drive my Viper - at least once. Oh, and the wife isn't a race car driver either. My car went 10.5@139mph with M. Pilots - too fast for 99% of people to drive safely.
Took my cousin for a ride up to only 100mph and thought he was having a heart attack while I was on the throttle. For a BB Chevelle guy I was surprised at his reaction.
Ted
i disagree with this .. Mine made more horsepower below 3500 rpm after the paxton install also... the motor doesn't fight as much to breath.. causing the motor to gain horse not lose it...
Do you have a paxton setup or are you just guesstimating?
joe
Do you have a paxton setup or are you just guesstimating?
joe
ILLSMOQ
Enthusiast
Thanks Ted, I know I'm right.
No need to appologize for not explaining it better...you are going to have a difficult time helping us to understand "wrong" .
The stock paxton set up will make 1 psi by 1500 rpm, almost 2.5 psi by 2500 rpm. In my case (stock paxton 8lb set up) my car is approaching 5 pounds by 3500 rpm. The Paxton will make boost off idle just not as much as the Roe blower will make.
To me the explosive power of the Roe blower is more attractive than the peak numbers the Paxton will make...however with no Roe blower available for Gen III yet, it's kinda stupid to even bring it into the discussion.
We have done about 50 of these installs with good resuts. There are some other upgrades and custom tuning that makes the system even better. Feel free to call us.
DC Performance
310-841-6996
DC Performance
310-841-6996
Kenneth Krieger
Viper Owner
I have to jump back in here and say a little about both S/c's.....I had a 94 with a ROE and I loved it.......immediate HP and torque when you hit the throttle at any RPM......in my Gen III I DON'T WANT THAT IMMEDIATE TORQUE! There is SO MUCH more torque and accompanied wheel spin with the Paxton on my GenIII even at 2,200 rpm, (than there was with my Gen 1) it would be impossible with a Roe to control at all......it's virtually impossible to control all the wheel spin with the Paxton all the way through 1st and 2nd gear......the torque and the HARD PULL of the Paxton is fantastic! I can't give you a comparison of a Gen 2 with either supercharger.......but I love the Paxton......and I get BETTER fuel mileage with the Paxton on the Gen III than I ever did with the Roe on my Gen 1. Open road.....80mph in 4th gear got 19mpg which I thought was great......NOW what?
Don't get me wrong - I love TT's and superchargers! I'm definitely a modifications guy. I don't have a Paxton, I've got a 10# Roe and love it. I guess I just reacted to all the threads that seemed to say Paxton was 'better' because it can make bigger numbers on the dyno.
Last VCA rally, out of 13 Vipers 6 were supercharged - all Paxtons except mine. They were running from 500-670+rwhp while I had 720 rwhp.
I had a 8# pulley on my 98GTS and it had NO traction with Gen III wheels and tires on it. With that car I figured that 600rwhp was the limit for controll at lower engine speeds. Was I surprised when I bought my '01 with 18" Pilots! Twice the traction even thought I had an extra 120rwhp. 'Run flats' have no traction and wheel hop consistantly. The GenIII's may have more torque, but they have nowhere near the traction of the GenII's.
I'm glad you guys are giving me some numbers on the Paxtons so that I can use that knowledge. I looked at a 1000rwhp GTS before I bought my '01 because I decided that the 720rwhp was faster because of the Roe, even thought the traction is 'iffy' under 70mph (the 600rwhp with 'runflats' had no traction under 100mph).
My Roe car runs down the highway in 6th gear (the speed doesn't seem to matter much 50-75mph) and gets 20mpg/us. It drives, passes and does hills with no downshifting from 1300rpm<. It's an amazing car and works perfect for me. I live 200miles from the nearest city and do a bit of 'spirited' highway driving. I put 9,000mi. on my 98 in about a month then put 9,000mi. on my '01 in two months. 18,000mi. this summer!
I'm saying that the Roe works for me best. I realize that for many people the Paxton will work better. My opinion is that the Roe works better for driving.
And my experience is that the Michelin 'runflats' caused me to crash my 98 in the rain and didn;t have enough traction for anything much past stock hp. The 'runflats' were also double the price and didn't seem to last as long as the 18". I did love the looks of the 10spoke wheels though.
Ted
I had a 99 GTS with an 8 pound Roe. I have an 06 SRTC with a stock Paxton Woodhouse installation. A comparison of the two would not be apples to apples. The cars were/are different in many ways. With that said, the Paxton has been flawless for 9000 miles. The Roe took a mile to heat up the plugs before the engine smoothed out and this was after experimenting with the plugs, card changes, etc. The Roe's VEC II ( the VEC III may have cured this), could not accomadate to all weather conditions. The engine pinged on cold days even with a card change - and I am talking about South Florida cold weather - in the 40s and low 50s. The Roe did not continue to surge all the way to redline. The Paxton does continue. The Roe, with the VEC II, did not control a hyper rich condition in cylinder number 10. This required the number ten plug to be changed more freqently. There is/was no intercooler for the Roe. You have to use a water/**** substitute with a tank in the trunk that needs to be refilled if you want the effect of intercooling. The Roe got awful gas mileage - six or seven miles to the gallon around town. The Paxton gets 11 to 12. It is not the cost. It was stopping so frequently for gas that was a pain. The Roe looked fantastic siting on top of the engine. The Paxton is not nearly as dramatic. The stock Paxton kit meets environmental laws. The Roe kit requires high flow cats to work properly per Sean's web site. The stock Paxton kit does not require altered or high flow cats. The smell from the Roe set up with high flow cats, because of the richness required to run safely, was, at times, a bit much. There is no smell with the stock Paxton installation. The harmonics of the twin screws turning in the Roe can interfere with your AM radio reception even if you ground everything more than stock. It happened to mine and I never could get clear AM reception. The Roe torque came in as low as 1800 RPM but this is really irrelevant since through the proper use of the gas pedal and the right gear for the right moment, the Paxton can produce the same effect. I can break the rear end loose in my SRTC just as easily if I choose to do so but I generally do not since it is a mickey mouse waste of tires and gas. Any fool can do a burnout. It takes talent to maximize acceleration without loosing traction. I hope the foregoing is helpful.
Kenneth Krieger
Viper Owner
I have to chime in again........I replaced the "run craps" on my car with PS-2's.....much improved traction.......but still wheel spin through 1st and 2nd gear with little effort......drag radials solve SOME of the wheel spin problem, but that itself sets off all the other possible difficulties with half shafts etc.......I LOVE the Paxton set up which runs much cooler than the Roe (I had a Ron Davis racing radiator on the Gen 1 with twin fans and a 180 thermostat with the Roe. This summer in Phoenix (42 days of 110 or better! A RECORD!), With the Paxton NEVER ran above 205 and that was in stop and go with the A/C on! Took Lou Belanger for a ride one evening at 105 degrees and ran it HARD with absolutely no overheating issues......that would have never happened with the Roe......much more heat produced.......I AM NOT KNOCKING THE ROE.......it was great for performance, and Sean IS THE BEST......but the Paxton has great advantages over the twin screw......just my .02
There's advantages to both systems, that was my point.
I pointed out the Roe advantages, thanks for pointing out Paxton advantages.
PS. I had an oxygen sensor issue with my car. It started running fat and occaissionally gave me "lean" engine codes. Turns out the problem is the O2 sensor is toast. My 98 ran perfect with the Roe.
I've read on this site that temp problems are usually the stock mounting position of the sensor in the airbox. The Vec2 has no input on the temp - that's run by the stock PCM. The Vec allows adjustment to the fuel and timing according to boost. Does the Paxton come with a subcontroller? Fred spent a few thousand extra adding an AEM so he could control his tune with the Paxton. What does the Paxton come with?
Ted
I pointed out the Roe advantages, thanks for pointing out Paxton advantages.
PS. I had an oxygen sensor issue with my car. It started running fat and occaissionally gave me "lean" engine codes. Turns out the problem is the O2 sensor is toast. My 98 ran perfect with the Roe.
I've read on this site that temp problems are usually the stock mounting position of the sensor in the airbox. The Vec2 has no input on the temp - that's run by the stock PCM. The Vec allows adjustment to the fuel and timing according to boost. Does the Paxton come with a subcontroller? Fred spent a few thousand extra adding an AEM so he could control his tune with the Paxton. What does the Paxton come with?
Ted
The Paxton comes with a split second "subcontroller". The box is inside the car. The split second is adequate for the stock installation. The AEM is more for the monster applications. The AEM also takes far more knowledge to utilize correctly. I believe JD is our in residence owner guru on the AEM. The key to the reliability in using the stock Paxton system is to keep it stock except of course for minor things like a Corsa cat back exhaust. Once you go beyond the stock system, then things can start to happen that require tweeking, etc. My SRTC runs 743 HP peak flywheel HP. As I said above, it has been flawless for 9000 miles. My mods, all put on by Mark Jorgensen and his Viper techs at Woodhouse in four days, are: Paxton supercharger, swing arm oil pan, modified stock shifter, Corsa cat back, Eibach springs, Moton Sport shocks, lowered one half inch, corner balanced, tuned and dynoed. Whatever you decide. Safely enjoy it.
