Trade a Gen 3 for a Gen 4

mousetom78

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I want 600HP. I want a coupe this time. Is it worth it? I have 03 Red Convertible with 21k miles.

I found couple gen 4 for 59k-62k on ebay. Is it worth it to sell my gen 3 for a gen 4? It will cost me 20-25k cost difference between car.
 

ViperGeorge

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Yes. It is. I have both a Gen 3 and a Gen 4. My Gen 3 is supercharged though and it is wicked fast. But I like the idea of 600 HP and a factory warranty.
 
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mousetom78

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I like the idea of 600HP and factory warranty. It just seems to be gen 4 dyno about 80 rwhp more than gen 3 on average. It takes a fair amount of modications for gen 3 to run even with gen 4.
 

AbsolutHank

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You can get a Paxton on your 03 installed for 9-10K. Coilovers for 3-5K. Then you'll have a car that out performs and outhandles the 08. I'm not saying you should, but it's a cheaper alternative and get a better all around car, in some peoples eyes anyways.
 

ViperGeorge

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You can get a Paxton on your 03 installed for 9-10K. Coilovers for 3-5K. Then you'll have a car that out performs and outhandles the 08. I'm not saying you should, but it's a cheaper alternative and get a better all around car, in some peoples eyes anyways.

I have both, a Gen 3 supercharged and a Gen 4. The Gen 3 is faster but once it heat soaks, the Gen 4 would eat it up. Then again modded cars are tougher to keep running. The factory has engineers that build stuff that lasts because they don't want warranty claims. Aftermarket companies like Paxton don't have the same level of resource.

Go with a Gen 4. On the other hand if you really want a well sorted Gen 3 with a Paxton, let me know.
 

RTTTTed

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Mousetom said he wants a coupe.

Maybe he'd be interested in an 2000 ACR? More rwhp than a Gen 4 with just the Paxton, It's a coupe, Koni racing shocks, chromed lightweight wheels, upgraded brakes, Venom spoiler upgraded axles ... and when yout want the fastest car on the block, turn on the Nitrous. GTS beauty and the Nitrous cures heatsoak instantly. Looking for some "fast company" at the Race the Base Top Speed Challenge next year.

World's Fastest Ferrari ($2,000,000) is rated at 850rwhp. Fastest recorded time (by Lidar) was a highly modified 900rwhp FGT on Nitrous. 800rwhp TT Z06 was equal to the Ferrari Enzo (some dispute about the Lidar timing being slow for a few cars). Maybe Jason will bring his GTS up with a tank of race gas?

Any quick Gen 3s wanna come play?

Ted


That's some reasons I have a couple Gen 2s
 

Twister

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Those 2008's are very tempting..I love my yellow gen3 vert...and with 475 rwhp (about 540 HP at the engine) she is far from slow. But their is no denying that the 600 Hp. Vipers are pretty much the top of the hill..It has already been proven that same day testing a non ACR gen4 Viper can beat a ZR1 in a few categories..If anything makeing them both pretty equal..

Once my nsx and viper are sold you will see me in one of these 2008 coupes..probally SSG....But I wont take a dime under 40K for my 2003 srt10 with 34K miles....No way no how...It's bright yellow with the 2008 hood and still has warrannty plus modifications as well as safety items like the roll bar and back up camera all hooked up to a Kenwood screen...

So if it takes me 3 years to finally get a price that I DEEM FAIR for my car then until then I will be driveing it...

I would never sell my 03 quickly at 3X thousand so I could quickly buy a 2008 at 5X thousand...
 

dipapa

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If you just want 600hp and satisfied with that just do headers, hi flo cats, intake, a larger TB and a good custom tune SCT.Aftermarket mufflers if you like loud. That's only $5k

You still won't get the higher redline or top end power of a gen4 but it will be close.

That's a big price difference.

You will be very surprised with powerband having a good tune.
 

Chrissss

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If you are just talking hp, stay with the gen3 and do the mods including a paxton. In the end the car will be faster than the gen4. There are however other reasons to go with the gen4.
 

dragon rider

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I've contemplated making the change to a Gen 4. 600 hp would be great. I make 490 now to the tires. 20- 25K for 40 more rwhp just does make sense to me for what I use the car for. If I were a competitive road course guy, I would have already made the switch. I'm going a different route. 30k will put a nice Gen 2 addition in my garage in the future. .
 

Ray W

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Bought the Gen IV and kept my Supercharged Gen III just in case. The Gen III is now gone and the only thing I miss is the convertible top.
 

Twister

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What else is their besides the power differance?....they both seem to handle and brake the same?i realize that the gen4s have faster lap times...but give a gen 3 100 more rwhp and it will have faster lap times to
 

lilgookiemonsta

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From what I remember reading, it has a stronger drivetrain and better gearing then the GEN3's. Say what you will but I prefer the wire throttle and dino technology :p
 

Ray W

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It is the power difference + a factory and/or extended warranty available on a non-modded car. Though the supercharged car had a higher peak hp the Gen IV has more power available lower and sooner in the powerband.
 
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mousetom78

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I am bone stock at 440 rwhp. I have K&N intake kit on it only. I can sell my gen 3 for 38-40k and pick up a Gen 4 for 20k more. Well, I want more power. Gen 4 dyno 520 rwhp on average so it is 80 rwhp more than my current viper. It will take some money to mod more gen 3 to run with a gen 4.
 

RTTTTed

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Probably higher priced now, but $13,000 would buy you a Roe TT installed in your car with a base of 650rwhp. Turn it up until you're happy or the motor busts.

Sean has a base and then after a few mods the same kit gets an adjustable boost controller.

The Gen 4s do come with a much better transmission and rear axle (posi). Better exahust on the 010s, better hoods, better wheels, etc etc.
 

Paul Hawker

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I owned an 03. Loved the car. Drove for a while stock, and then installed a Paxton to enhance the experience.

I now drive a mildly modded 09 and find the differences to be very worthwhile.

With the Paxton I could easily over drive the chassis and tires. Much fun, but also right on the edge.

The 09 is a much more balanced package. The engine immediately gets your attention. It idles smoothly and feels very refined, but when you get to 4,000 RPM it really gets after it. The drive train handles the power much better than with the paxton.

The extra hp over stock is balanced with a stronger and smoother shifting tranny. The rear end has a superior limited slip mechanism. The suspension is tweaked to take better use of the stickier rubber with the run flats now gone.

Revised hood louvers remove air from the engine compartment better, and no longer flow hot engine air into the drivers compartment. The exhaust sills run much cooler, and the cross over has been eliminated to reduce interior heat and noise. The air conditioner feels at least twice as powerful.

So many little (and some not so little) thing have been enhanced to create an all round better driving car.

The gen IV is a much more developed car. A little faster. A little smoother. A little stronger. A little more refined...but still all the Viper DNA
 

bigdeep1

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Paul Hawker, that is the best argument I have seen thus far.

It seems the biggest argument in favor of the Gen 4s vs a boosted Gen3, is that most people like that the 08s can boast the power while still having warranty. The OP is largely referring to buying a used snake, so warranty may not even be an issue. I do agree that reliability would be a concern. Would anyone be willing to guess what the percent reliability would be of a Supercharged Gen3 vs a bolt-on Gen4 (ie. only 80% as reliable)??

I must admit that I do think that having some sort of forced induction does add some cool points and bragging rights....especially on a 8+ liter V10. For that silly reason, I always said that my next weekend car would be Supercharged or Turbo boosted. Again, I DO recognize that reliability is an important concern. Than again, we don't buy Vipers for reliability.
 
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Ray W

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Stock Paxton systems on GEN III's are extremely reliable if done by qualified mechanics. I had 9K trouble free miles on my 2004. So you won't have to worry about that. You probably can't get an extended warranty on it though.

With a 2008 GEN IV you can get an extended warranty through 2015.
 

RTTTTed

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Hmmm, I've got 52,000miles on my Roe supercharged GTS. 2 clutches, Titanium halfshafts after 'popping' the stocker at the strip and that'w probably what caused my 800hp twisted axle. Never broken down so the Gen 2 is superreliable with the Roe supercharger and big power.

My ACR has 26,000mi and it has a Paxton supercharger. Car has had a Nitrous shot or two during it's life and that was at 802rwhp/750rwtq. It runs perfect and also got 800hp axles so it's never had a problem - also super reliable.

Yes, I bought a Viper because it's reliable. A vette I would expect less reliability even if it was stock.

Ted
 

Hamrhead

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I traded my '06 Coupe for an '08 Coupe, because at the time, I got a great deal.

Then my local dealership totalled my new 108 mile '08, so their insurance company cut me a big check and I bought another '08 Coupe, and had a nice chunk of $$$ leftover.

There are only 2 downsides (maybe 3?) I can think of.

1) Throttle-by-wire *****. Sorry, don't care what others say. It just doesn't feel as good as a throttle cable. Period. Though, you can get a feel for it after a while and learn to work with it. Not totally crap, but certainly not as good as a cable. I do have the Mopar PCM which helps some, but still doesn't completely eliminate the hesitation.

2) If you love the gobs of low-end power that the Viper has always had, you may miss it in a Gen4. At least until ~3,800 rpm. Then you'll forget about it.:D No big deal.

Maybe #3) The Nav Radio is not that great. Not sure what the problem is here, but my '06 had the basic stereo w/ Satellite and I think it sounded better and was louder? I would've preferred that radio over the Nav unit in the '08, but it isn't available. I have no use for Nav in this car, but I do like having the Satellite. Very minor complaint anymore since I got my Roe H/F Cats and Corsa - Now I'd rather listen to the exhaust.:2tu:
 

Viper X

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Have a Gen II, 2 Gen III's and 1 Gen IV

1 - The "drive by wire" on the Gen IV will take some getting accustomed to. This really should have been better and is still a weak point even with the Mopar Race Controller.

2 - Low end torque of the Gen IV is better with mods, but weak by comparison to the Gen II and Gen III until over 4k rpm.

3 - Gen IV cooling system isn't as effective as the Gen III's but better than the Gen II's.

4 - On a road course, the Gen III is pretty close to the Gen IV. Drag strip is another story.

Dan
 

Twister

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Thats what I was thinking...

I saw all the rags had the 2006 viper and 2006 Z06 i head to head comparisons to be pretty close on a road course...They were about the same with the Viper a tenth behind or a tenth ahead..Worst case I think I once saw the Z06 almost a second ahead...

While at the drag strip the gen3 would run a 12.1 at 121 and the z06 would run a 11.8 at 125

So then i saw all the gen4 verses Z06 comparisons...The Gen4 seemed to be 2 seconds ahead on most head to head road courses and while the Z06 was still burning out 11.8 at 125 at the 1/4 mile the gen4 viper was doing 11.7 at 127...

telling me that on average the gen4 was 6 mph faster than the gen3 wich is huge...But at 2 seconds faaster than the Z06 on the lap times while the 2006 gen3 was a tenth or 2 faster at some road course than the Z06 makes me think that they both handle great and have great brakes but the gen4's extra power is whats sealing the deal...Not neccesarily any handling improvements???????

Am i wrong..Is their a big differance in the suspension like a gen2 to a gen 3?
 

bigdeep1

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Am i wrong..Is their a big differance in the suspension like a gen2 to a gen 3?

I am sure you may know this already, but the improved lap times can be attributed to:

(1) GKN ViscoLok speed-sensing limited-slip differential

(2) The addition of Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires

(3) Revised suspension (springs, anti-roll bars, and shock valving)

To answer your question:

IMO, the differences probably were not as extreme going from the Gen 2 to the Gen 3, because the chassis remained the same going from Gen 3 to Gen 4.
 

alpha85

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I sold my 05 and got a 08 for the same reason. I got a good deal on a 08 in the low 60's with under 3k miles. I increased my overall debt by 20 to 25k but the payment is about the same. I did Belangers, Mopar PCM and exhaust. It dynoed over 600rwhp. It is faster and a better car.
 

Twister

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Interesting on the subtle handling diffferances...i keep hearing about the lack of low end torque...ive beeen given a few spirited rides in c6z06s and the one thing I noticed is that they felt pretty slow/weak in the lower rpms compared to my viper....i understand that they are faster in the higher rpms than the gen3 viper...but you spend a whole lot more time in the low rpms driving around then wide open throttle..do the gen4s feel like the z06s ? If so I think I would prefer a 500 rwhp bolt on gen 3 for the low end torque.....of course do the same mods on the 2008 and low end torque or not 600 rwhp is what it is.....i think id really have to see heads up testing of a 2008 viper and 2006 viper on the track and in the 1/4 mile to truly appreciate them.....of course that never happens..to this day ive never even seen a good vid of a stock gen 2 against a stock gen 3
 

Viper X

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Interesting discussion.

Stock Gen III v Stock Gen IV, the Gen IV makes more peak hp, has better tires (vs the run flats) and revised springs and front sway bar.

Peak hp is good for bragging rights. How much time do any of us really spend at 6100 rpm on the street or on a road course?

A properly equipped Gen III coupe, i.e. Moton club sport suspension, track tires, a Gen IV front sway bar and some basic bolt ons and a Gen III will hang with a Gen IV with track tires and "bolt ons" on most tracks, i.e. it will be more of a driver's race.

The Gen IV will pull the Gen III on "rovals" or tracks with long straight sections and the Gen IV will win the drag race. Pulling out of a slow corner is the Gen IV's weakness, it just doesn't have the low end grunt.

Dan
 

RTTTTed

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Since you can't buy runcraps anymore the differences between the 1,2,3 and 4 Vipers are much less because of the PS2s. If you buy cheaper tires that changes. Once you get rid of the 17s, heavyweight 18s and upgrade your Gen 2 brakes to the lighweight 14" slotted brakes (what the new ACRs got) the cars get much closer in handling as before 2001 the brakes were the worst thing about the early Vipers and only getting .8 Gs of stopping.

The stock Cats are terrible and after they've been changed the performance and comfort levels go up in the older ones the most.

The older cars that get driven get better with the newer tires, wheels, brakes, exhaust and hp improvments. Good thing that those junk Gen 3 tires (that allowed the vette to come close) are obsoleted. Chuck told me that the /gen 1 tires were much worse than runcraps so thank god all Vipers that wear out their tires can't buy those old low traction junk tires anymore! My first GTS was a 600rwhp roe sc'd 98 GTS nearly stock except Gen 3 tires and wheels, exhaust, brakes, stereo and sc. Awesome car although I had a few scary experiences when I accidently lost control at high speeds due to NO traction. Those tires would spin at any speed in any 4 gears under 100mph. Wiped out car when the runcraps hydroplaned in deep puddles on the highway at 60mph and we spun out and head-on'd a Semi. New PS1s on my Sapphire 700+ GTS and it had some traction about 80mph! It did scare the sh*t our of me when I floored it at 40mph in 4th and it light up the tires and I lost control because there was no tracion. Then JonB convinced me to buy some PS2s, wow! I can usually get traction in second gear closer to the top.

With my brakes, power, Bluetooth stereo, VR1s with PS2s,and exhaust I think my car is equal and better than all Gens. Course I know the wife prefers the ACR because it is much 'tamer' and quieter. So not everyone would like my Gen 2. We're all different, but with the Gen 4 developed tires, the Gen 3 brakes, and Gen 2 (ACR) susp. improvments most older Vipers easily outperform the OLD tests. If the Gen 2 gets .4 sec on the drag strip and 20' shorter stopping from 14" brakes and PS2s the old tests are a joke.

As far as vettes go ... As reported in Viper Magazine and byn the Wash VCA the new ZR1 seems to have trouble making 540rwhp (not Bhp) on a dyno. So the BEST EVER vette is about equal to a Viper. Watching the standard Viper race the best ever (not a Z06) was disappointing as the vette only won because the driver of the Viper spun the tires a little too much. I've never seen a Gen 3 lose to a Z06. All the magazines and tv tests showed that the cheaper Z06 lost all the road track and drag strip races and what made the Z06 "compare better" was the cushy seats and the ESC and TC (computer drives for the BAD, inexperienced driver). TC and ESC make the car slower and safer. No Viper has a slower/worse performance (except ABS) system that puposely applies the brakes during acceleration tests.

The vettes NEED the TC for runcrap Goodyear traction problems. Of course the ZR1 did come equipped with Viper designed PS2s.

Ted
 

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