Viper codes pulled..... PLEASE HELP!!!

[two06vipers]

Ok I posted a week or so ago that my car is running HORRIBLE its a Gen 2 97 viper gts. The car runs much worse as it warms up. I think its the 02 sensors but I am not sure. The car does have the cats removed. Here are the codes

P1490
Manfacurer Contrl
Auxiliary emission
controls

P0172
System Too Rich
(Bank 1)


Could these be caused by bad plugs and bad 02 sensors? the car hesistates when you press on the gas its like it wont go anywhere.... it goes but you can floor it and it barely excellerates.....

any help appreciated!
thanks

 

[Bill B]

When my o2's failed that's how it ran. I checked the codes with the check engine light(52) and it was the o2's. I'm not sure what the emissions one is but I don't think it's the cats as the 97 didn't have downstream o2's. New plugs and sensors couldn't hurt.

 

[Gerald]

02's, very easy fix. Since your car is a 1997, it might be due for some new ones. Mine also doesn't have cats and I think for some reason shortens the life of the O2 sensors. Simply Unscrew them and Screw the new ones in and plug them back in. Most of the times it's the UPSTREAM O2's, just after the manifolds or headers. When the O2's go bad it gives the wrong readings to the car seeing the car too lean so it richens the air fuel and causes the car to run way rich. You'll also need new plugs as the ones you have in there are most likely already fouled up.

Pull some plugs on each side of the engine to verify your plugs are very dirty and black.

Gerald

 

[two06vipers]

Thanks guys..... so these codes are probably due to the 02's? I just dont want to spend 82.50 per 02 sensor to find out that it wasnt the o2's..........

thanks again!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

The P0172 is a generic "System rich" signal. New O2 will fix this.

The P1490 is a Chrysler-specific code that says "low speed fan relay circuit."

http://www.iequus.com/assets/manuals/3100E.pdf

 

[Gerald]

Yes, 02's. As I said earlier, head out to your garage now to confirm and pull a plug on each side of your car. An extremely dirty plug(s) on either side of the car will confirm a rich condition and O2 condition.

Hoped that helped

 

[J DAWG]

I always get 172 with my heads cam car(prior to vec2) because I wan't making the vacuum I needed. Have you checked your vacuum at idle and may wanna look for a leak somewhere.

 

[J DAWG]

172 is drivers side to rich as well. 175 is passenger side.


o2 sensors did not work for me, but we probably have 2 different situations.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

I have a brand new 02 from mopar if you are interested in it. I will sell it for 40% off list price.

 

[Jack B]

The 00172 means that the indicated bank is rich (as everyone has said), however, it was forced (by PCM) rich by a lean condition that the adaptives couldn't fix in a given time period. Try clearing the code. This could have been a temporary condition that triggered the code and you have not run enough cycles to purge the code.

The code is cleared by the pcm in one of two ways. There is a pure cycle counter (key on/off) or so many cycles at the same set of engine parameters (where fault occurred)without the fault reoccurring. Clear the code and see if it happens again. Find someone with the Ease software, it will tell you everything you need to know. Don't go buying anything till you know exactly what you are encountering, these cars have to many variables.

 

[Ulysses]

The 00172 means that the indicated bank is rich (as everyone has said), however, it was forced (by PCM) rich by a lean condition that the adaptives couldn't fix in a given time period.

Yup! I concur. Check for leaks in the intake system, leaks or cracks on the vacuum hoses. O2 sensors are a little harder to diagnose, but looking at the short term fuel trim should give you a clue.

Don't go buying anything till you know exactly what you are encountering

Completely agree.

 

[two06vipers]

I wouldnt know where to find leaks or what not in the system. So your saying that its possible its not the 02 sensors and its probably a vaccum leak of some kind? I guess ill have to take in to the shop as I have never worked on one of these ...... i have only owned it a couple of months. I was about to head out to get some new o2s at autozone......

 

[two06vipers]

Also if it matters.....
The car was running rough i mean the hesitating etc for about a week BEFORE the check engine light actually came on.

After the guy at autozone read the codes the check engine light is now off, however, the car is still running bad.

 

[Ulysses]

So your saying that its possible its not the 02 sensors and its probably a vaccum leak of some kind?

That is a possibility. O2s have a lifetime of around 50-60K miles, though it's not unheard of to have one fail much earlier. What we are saying is that you should at least do some diagnosis versus buying a part and hoping it fixes the problem. Get a hold of a shop manual and familiarize yourself with how all the sensors work.

Don't hesitate to dive in and work on these engines. They are relatively simple. Of course, if time is of the essence, then it's better to have a qualified, experienced mechanic take a look at it. If money is no object, then fire at will.

 

[two06vipers]

ILL GIVE IT A TRY
I just took the car out and it seems that the longer its running, the hotter it gets, the worse it drives!! is this characteristic of any of these issues?

 

[Ulysses]

When you say, "the longer its running, the hotter it gets," is your car getting more hot than normal driving temps? If that's what you are saying, and it over temps at idle, then that is a product of the code P1490, your low speed fan not working. As for driveability, you're already running rich in one bank, and the overheating could make it worse.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Does it drive better with the AC or defrost on? The AC would force the fan to high speed all the time and engine temp wouldn't rise.

 

[Gerald]

THe longer you drive it , the more the plugs get fouled from a bad 02 sensors. Have you taken at LEAST ONE PLUG OFF OF EACH SIDE TO CONFIRM?

Gerald

 

[two06vipers]

LOL I AM GOING TO TAKE THE PLUGS OFF NOW!!!!
WHAT I MEANT WAS THE CLOSER to 190 degrees that it gets the worse it runs..... car doesnt overheat..... just as it warms up to normal driving temps it runs worse.

 

[Gerald]

lol! pulling a plug or two on each side of the motor will tell you what's happening inside the engine... It'd be a good idea to take a look at the plugs..

G

 

[Ulysses]

THE CLOSER to 190 degrees that it gets the worse it runs

Probably OPEN loop versus CLOSED loop operation. OPEN loop uses predetermined PCM values to run the fuel system. As the operating temp reaches a predetermined value and other conditions are met, you enter the CLOSED loop mode with the calculated PCM values and things get worse.

 

[Jack B]

One more time - a scan tool should solve everything. It will pay for itself many times over and is a great learning tool. The Ease (call Sean Roe) software seems to be the best for cars. Look at the enhanced version.