Which headers to buy?

IEATVETS

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OK people, I need some help. I do not know which headers to buy. I currently have stock headers with high flow cats and mufflers. I plan on keeping both of these items on the car due to the fact it is a side exhaust car and I really don't want anymore interior noise. Give me some input so I can make a decision as to which headers I should buy. What kind of gains should I expect to see from headers? As always, thanx! :D
 

STUGOTS

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B&B are they way to go I did ALL this research about 3 weeks ago and all the top guys agree B&B hands down, I just bought a set from 99R/t (Mike) I believe he has another set for a really great price you may wanna pm him.

gains should be around 25 - 40 RWHP
 

zen garage

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About two months ago, I installed high flow cats and borlas mufflers on my GTS with side exhaust. The drone and resonance was to say the least, annoying. About two weeks ago, I added coated B&B's to that combination, and couldnt be happier. No more drone or resonance, and the sound is amazing. The car feels like it has really openend up. Winter is here, and I cant take it to the dyno, but the b&b's definitely added some hp.
 

Tom86ZT

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I say Belanger. Great sound. One of the best flowing headers (actually all the aftermarkets are decent). All probably comes down to price.
 

Bandit3

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Belangers are on my old 95-- added about 50 rwhp and I think it was 63 ft lbs rwtorque. They were expensive, but for me it was money well spent. I also have no cats and three inch pipes. The sound is loud loud loud-- but I love it! John
 

STUGOTS

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Belangers are poor quailty as far as material,I heard thy will not last as long as say B&B.
 

Simms

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Obviously, I'd go B&B for a GEN2. But I honestly have no experience with GEN1's.

Whatever you do, go with 1 3/4" headers if you plan on being S/C'd.
 

Detlef

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As long as you don't wrap the headers, which Lou Belanger advises against, the header should be fine. The gaskets may give out over time though.
 

Stiffler

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Belanger! I've had my Belanger exhaust on for over 3 years with NO problems. The headers are coated inside and out. With the miles my car see's 4k to 5k a year, the headers will last a long time. When they do need replacement I'll replace them...at least I have the sound I want.
 
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IEATVETS

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Looks like Belanger's are the way to go. What about the sound in the car? Again I will be running cats and mufflers. I am really looking at the noise issue thing. I listened to way to much loud music when I was younger and I am paying for it these days. Thanx guys for the input. :2tu:
 

STUGOTS

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maybe as far as gen 1 is concerned belanger IS the way to go I only researched gen 2 (thats what I have) and B&B is without a doubt the best for gen 2.
 

radta7

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maybe as far as gen 1 is concerned belanger IS the way to go I only researched gen 2 (thats what I have) and B&B is without a doubt the best for gen 2.

What did you like about the B&B's over Belangers???

I am also looking to do headers in the spring on mine. I have the 3 inch cats and 3 inch Corsa.

My car is loud with this set up. How much louder will it be with headers?
RD
 

PhoenixGTS

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Belangers are poor quailty as far as material,I heard thy will not last as long as say B&B.

Can I ask where you heard that from?
I can pretty much guarantee you that he heard that from someone who makes stainless headers. I think stainless is inferior to the aluminized steel that Belangers use for three main reasons:

1) 304 stainless is brittle, which means that during a long, harsh lifetime, it is very probably stainless headers will crack, whereas the aluminized is softer like mild steel which allows a tiny bit of flex and less cracking;

2) after the engine runs for five minutes uncoated stainless headers turn purple and look like crap, whereas ceramic coated headers look great for a long time. You say well then just coat your stainless headers. The problem is that ceramic coating sticks to the aluminized much better than it sticks to 304 stainless, so if you are going to go coated, you will be better off with aluminized; and

3) anecedotally, it appears that the aluminized runs much cooler than stainless, whether coated or not.

Another possible reason is sound. If you take a length of 304 stainless tube and hit it with a hammer is will ring like a bell, but if you hit the same size piece in aluminized it thuds. That might help with resonance problems.
 

STUGOTS

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Actually I have yet to install them, I am having them installed in spring.

Well what I liked about B&B over belanger is the fact that all the tuners I use on a regular basis say so and thats good enough for me.

BTW they are advised for 3 in cats/cat back because that is also what I have but I got B&B not corsa.
 

Casey

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Actually I have yet to install them, I am having them installed in spring.

Well what I liked about B&B over belanger is the fact that all the tuners I use on a regular basis say so and thats good enough for me.

BTW they are advised for 3 in cats/cat back because that is also what I have but I got B&B not corsa.

What you said was the Belangers are made of poor quality, and won't last as long as the B&B.? Which is far from factual.
I do know some tuners sell B&B, so I would expect them to tell you to purchase them, but I would not expect them to say Belangers are POOR quality, etc.

The quality of my Belangers are GREAT, sounds great, look great, fit great, w/o heat issues and are handling 735+rwhp without any problems.

Hopefully, your B&Bs work out as well for you as my Belangers have worked out for me! :D
 

JWVIPER

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First off if you want direct bolt on with no mods at all for a Gen I there isn't much choice, B&B are not direct bolt on, they can be modded but even Sean Roe suggested not to do that. Eldebrock bolts on and mopar high pef and belanger, the Belangers are the clear winner and wake up a GEN I big time.

Going on in Jan with Sean ROe GEN I high flow cats and muffs.
 
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IEATVETS

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Belanger it is, thanx for all of the input guys. I don't know what I would do without all of you. Now to call around, check out prices and get these puppies ordered! :headbang:
 

V 10 MAFIA

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Belangers are poor quailty as far as material,I heard thy will not last as long as say B&B.
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Who the hell told you this? Belanger quality is superior when it comes to reliability, fit, HP gain and sound.
 

Doc.

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3 years on my Belangers and I love them. I run Random Tech high flow cats with a Corsa cat back and I love the sound. Best of all, no drone. When I bought mine Jon B told me that they run cooler than the SS headers.

Doc
 

V 10 MAFIA

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JW I say we put a set of Belangers on the ML 350. Wake it up for the whole family to enjoy.
 

HOdbleFman

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Would someone that is claiming that belangers run cooler than other stainless headers explain their reasoning behind their claim. Also, when doing so, make sure you are comparing ceramic coated stainless headers to the belangers. This is my thought on the subject:

By coating both, the emmissivity constants should be about equal for both types of headers, therefore at equal temperatures both headers should emit about the same amount of radiation. If you want to take into account the conduction of energy through the tube walls, then the stainless would actually allow less heat to reach the surface of the header in a transient analysis. Stainless has a lower coefficient of thermal conductivity than mild steel and a much lower thermal conductivity than aluminum. If you wanted to calculate the thermal conductivity (or conversly the thermal resistivity) of the aluminized steel, you would take into account the thermal conductivity of both materials, mild steel and aluminum, in series as you would two resistors in an electric circuit. This number (thermal conductivity) will be much higher than the stainless thermal conductivity therefore allowing more heat energy to reach the surface of the aluminized header than the stainless header. So if more energy reaches the surface of the header, then the emissivity of the material also increases, therefore transferring more heat to the engine compartment. Now, I know the ceramic coating on either material definitely reduces the amount of radiation energy emitted to the surrounding components, but since emissivity is dependent on surface temperature, the material with the highest surface temperature, aluminized steel, is going to give off more energy to the engine bay. Oh and 304 SS has about 3 times the tensile strength of mild steel at 1000 F. Someone chime in if I have made a mistake, an incorrect assumption, or if I'm just plain wrong on something. It's been awhile since I had this in school.
 

Fast Freddy

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some headers utilize different guages of steel which make a big difference in quality, reliability, heat transfer, accoustics, etc. most headers are of 16 guage thickness but i have seen them in 14 guage and 18 guage. 18 guage headers are the most durable and will last the longest and resist deformation the best. obviously 14 guage headers are the lightest but they are very susesptible to damage. i feel that 16 guage is the best compromise for all things considered.
 

HOdbleFman

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some headers utilize different guages of steel which make a big difference in quality, reliability, heat transfer, accoustics, etc. most headers are of 16 guage thickness but i have seen them in 14 guage and 18 guage. 18 guage headers are the most durable and will last the longest and resist deformation the best. obviously 14 guage headers are the lightest but they are very susesptible to damage. i feel that 16 guage is the best compromise for all things considered.

That's a very good point, Freddy. I guess I am assuming both sets of headers are made from the same guage tubing.
 

STUGOTS

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I think Freddy and WVmach made the 2 BEST points I have ever heard out of one of these "best headers" threads.

Thanks guys
 
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