Who's the Baddest?

Viper TT/10

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

casey supertuner shootout viper style would be awesome to see. it would be great to see a 1/4 mile-1 lap time trial road course- one mile shootout. i doubt many tuners will participate since it might hurt them than help them.
 

Joseph Dell

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

"before you call bullsheet get the facts straight. "

The facts are that SVS has been building and tuning _that_ car for more years than anyone else.

But that doesn't change physics.

1500rwhp at 17lbs is not possible. I'm not trying to take away from their accomplishments... But that is balongna!

Anyone who believes it is on crack.

no matter how efficient a turbo system is, it isn't _that_ efficient.

---warning: engine / turbo theory alert---

Even if the car is making 750 rwhp naturally aspirated, and then it accepts 15lb of boost (1 atmosphere being 14.7) it would have a theoretical power output if 100% efficient of 1500hp. But systems are NOT 100% efficient. ever. and that car isn't 750rwhp naturally aspirated.

remember, 14.7psi = 1 atmosphere which is double what an N/A car makes.

empirical evidence on more efficient compressors shows that 1100rwhp is attainable at that boost level. but that is with the car on the edge and max efficiency... how are you going to make up for that 400rwhp differential?

---end theory alert---

enough of that... time to go hunt for eggs...

JD
 

big-n-italian

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

well if this doesnt sound like a sales pitch, i dont know what does.



<< Without question everyone in the Viper community is missing out by overlooking the baddest Viper builders in the world that have THE MOST credentials and THE LEAST press and marketing which would help them so much - SVS in West Chicago, Illinois!!! www.svspower.com

[******] and many others builders get all the glory with thier strong marketing and press machines but seriously dont come close to SVS's accomplishments and vehicles. This gets me sick and hopefully we can all spread the word if you look into them and agree as I do.

I have had a Viper GTS ACR Since 1999 and been lucky enough to live close to thier shop here in the western suburbs of Chicago to witness many of thier accomplishements.

The most recent example of this was thier entry and record breaking standing mile results in the Hot Rod Magazine Maxon Mile contest where they became the fastest production body vehicle EVER running an average of 218 mph over I believe an average taken from two runs! (Throw that at those Z06 forums)

http://www.svspower.com/images/upload/video_63_0.wmv

With the same car they also ran an 8.54 175mph quarter in the fall of 2005 before the weather got really bad here and they did not have this thing dialed in by any means with very weak starts on the few runs(3) they got in. I think they will break the Viper quarter record in 2006 easily once they tweak a few things and get a couple more runs. I also know these runs were not done on full boost by any means.

This same Car also broke the top Speed record in it's class at the Bonneville salt falts a while back running an average of 254mph.

What builder has achieved this with the same engine and car over such diverse tests of performance ??? They have changed transmissions and a few other odds and ends for best perfomance in each of these diverse contests but the bulk of the car has remained the same for years also proving it's reliability.

Ron Jr and I have had many talks on this issue of reliable horsepower over the years and yes it will cost you more to make reliable horsepower but they really know what they are doing and only believe in reliable HP.

To top things off, this year they have upgraded a few things in thier package and are now making 1725 rwhp vs the 1300 rwhp that they broke the 247mph record in Boneville with. They know if nothing breaks and they can run full boost 300mph is in this street drivable vehicle - WOW, WOW, WOW!!!

http://www.svspower.com/images/upload/video_54_0.wmv

Obviously this represents thier absolute top of the line package but believe it or not there is a young kid here in Lemont, Illinois that I know first hand is having SVS buildone of these beasts strictly for the street so these are not just race cars as many will try and persuade you so they dont look bad!!! (Everyone in Illinois better watch out for this MONSTER)

On top of these acomplishments Ron Jr ran another one of thier cars in road racing for a couple years some years back and basically kicked everthings a_ _!

These guys are the REAL DEAL across all ranges of performance not just quarter mile and you should check thier website out for all kinds of great videos, pics, parts and information.

If your ever thinking of any kind of package from small to extreme I would at least talk to these guys or your doing yourself an injustice.

I recently took delivery of a 2006 First Edition SRT-10 Coupe and as much as I would love one of thier crazy packages it's too much for me at this point so I am having them put an intercooled supercharger package on my car along with the Race Logic traction control, comp coupe oil pan, headers, exhaust, Quaife and a few other goodies that will make my summer a blast. >>





hmmm, lets look at the facts:

1. you havent even had work done by SVS yet, yet you want us to believe they are somehow builder "gods"?

2. you also live in Chicago.

3. your experiences with other builders is never mentioned, so we can assume there is none.

4. if someone questions your opinion, you are asked that we email you in private and keep it off of these forums.

5. you dont dare mention any of the accomplishments or give credit to any of the other people or builders out there.

6. when asked about viper exhaust, your response is: "Go with SVS they are the best Viper tuners anywhere and they are well worth their price if you want it installed well."

7. when asked about transmissions, your response is: "I'd call Ron Jr. at SVS in West Chicago to talk about beefing this all up and then you will be much happier being able to beat on that beast the way it should have been designed from the factory."

8. and if your opinion is questioned at all, you resort to name calling, insults, and we are told to "shut the f-up", which i am sure i also will be told to do after you read this.

9. looking back, almost EVERY ONE of your (10) posts mentions SVS.

dont get me wrong, no doubt SVS are one of the best builders out there. but i have to agreee with joe and plum on this one - This is the thread where you get paid by SVS to comment on how cool they are, right?

:rolleyes:


EVEN YOU, HAS TO ADMIT, THIS LOOKS A BIT "ODD".


send me one of your, i mean "their" sales brochures, and i may reconsider questioning SVS's "godly" status. ;)
 

Crazy1

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

TO: Joseph Dell (Any relation to Micheal ? - Apple Rules, multi OS is the future! Just kidding as I do use and like Dell PC's as well)

Before you continue to divert people away from the original purpose of the thread as I just did above think before you write. There is nothing more wasteful than a monkey pounding away meaningless at a keyboard posting monkey notes! (Also see my response to your SMART reply in srt forums where I was trying to let members of all Gen Vipers into this thread and you couldnt help yourself in making a SMART remark to my post there as well.)

Since your so good with the calculations, know what SVS's car makes natuarally aspirated, know all the other parameters that go into the equations that are reality in an automobile and so on - how many turbo cars have YOU built ? How many have you broken the world record in the standing mile, broke the record in your class running 247 mph at the salt flats ? Maybe you have run in the 8's at the strip ?

No? Hmmm!

This is my point EXACTLY to people like you - DONT dilute the REAL purpose of the thread by trying to make it smell with your side discussions on REALITY. Regardless of if they make 1699.999999 rwhp or not - THESE GUYS ARE THE BADDEST IMHO and if you want to put doubt in any minds and divert from the real purpose of the thread it will not just pass with me.

I believe in what I see with my own eyes. Watch the videos of the Dyno runs and dyno sheet or are those ILM generated special effects ?

SO WHO IS THE BADDEST BUILDER IN YOUR OPINION AS WE NEVER GOT THAT UNIMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION ?
 

Crazy1

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Big n Italian,

Whew! Here I go again, you have to love Red Bull as I just cant stop drinking this stuff and it makes you crazy.

I will take it down a notch just for you since you sound a little elderly and it's probably hard to follow if I go too fast.

You are yet another proud member in the I dont have anyhting to say club, I want to avoid the question of the thread in that I dont know who my favorite buildier is and thus I will waste more peoples time talking nonsense.

SO lets address your facts:

1. you havent even had work done by SVS yet, yet you want us to believe they are somehow builder "gods"?

>> I have had plenty of work done by SVS on my own 1999 ACR and now have put my 2006 First Edition in thier hands for some major work. I also have 5 close friends with Vipers that have had supercharger and turbo systems done by them over the years. If you would have read a little more you would not have overlooked this instead of writting your own imaginary story. No one said they were "Gods" so please dont make things up especially about god on Easter.

2. you also live in Chicago.

Sure do and feel lucky to be close to a great builder. (BTW - I have also heard great things from others about Heffner, Woodhouse and others but I cant comment other than what I have read which still does not seem to match the accomplishments of SVS. This is JUST MY OPINION - can you get that through your skull!

3. your experiences with other builders is never mentioned, so we can assume there is none.

I have had many Vettes over the years and worked with a couple other builders like Lingenfelter in Indiana which were great, provided quality work but still not as good as SVS from MY VIEW. As far as the other big Viper builders, no - but does that mean that I dont have an opinion on the subject? Please!

4. if someone questions your opinion, you are asked that we email you in private and keep it off of these forums.

INCORRECT! Get the facts straight "big", I said if you are not going to answer the question of the thread as I DID - then dont drag me into a flame war to dilute this thread as you have just contributed so nicely and RATHER email me privately.

5. you dont dare mention any of the accomplishments or give credit to any of the other people or builders out there.

The question of the thread is who do you think is the BADDEST BUILDER, I said who and why and I get flamed. Why would I list others builders achievements if they pale in comparison or are not my choice for the "BADDEST BUILDER" ??? It did not say "BADDEST BUILDER's" it said "BUILDER" as in ONE!!!


6. when asked about viper exhaust, your response is: "Go with SVS they are the best Viper tuners anywhere and they are well worth their price if you want it installed well."

Again only stressing MY OPINION in a totally unrelated thread where a local Illinois guy wanted to have his exhaust installed right as I did with SVS on my 99 ACR. Even Woodhouse another reputible builder said go with SVS if your in Illinois as they know what they are doing.

7. when asked about transmissions, your response is: "I'd call Ron Jr. at SVS in West Chicago to talk about beefing this all up and then you will be much happier being able to beat on that beast the way it should have been designed from the factory."

I think your on to something Ben Franklin ! As I said probably a good 50 times now I like the work SVS provides and they did this work for me after I broke 3 factory transmissions, two rear ends and several half shafts because I drive extremely hard ALL the time.

8. and if your opinion is questioned at all, you resort to name calling, insults, and we are told to "shut the f-up", which i am sure i also will be told to do after you read this.

That's because this thread is not suppose to be about any individuals opinion, it' suppose to be YOUR vote for the BADDEST BUILDER and if your going to try and say my opinion doesnt count I will slap the piss out of you.

9. looking back, almost EVERY ONE of your (10) posts mentions SVS.

Yes, you are correct once again - I am on a mission to change the world and you caught on to my sinster plan! If I like someone and one of my passions is Vipers I cant help but to write about it and it dont smell like [******] like your comments.

dont get me wrong, no doubt SVS are one of the best builders out there. but i have to agreee with joe and plum on this one - This is the thread where you get paid by SVS to comment on how cool they are, right?

No payments here, just good will of a long time customer - we leave the corruption to the other guys - I bet you know what I mean ?
 

big-n-italian

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

<< I will take it down a notch just for you since you sound a little elderly ... >>

exactly the childish response i expected.

before you continue posting your verbal diareah, you may want to read up on the posting policies of this forum in which i believe you are currently in violation of before you get yourself warned or banned.



you know, on second thought, do us all a favor and keep posting the way you have been. :2tu:
 

hemibeep

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Seems this thread got a little off topic,
I thought Dan was just asking a general question on opinion of who is "the baddest"...

"baddest" is achieved with three factors:
1. ca$h
2. skills/knowledge.
3. ca$h

Since I don't have the luxury of #1 and #3, I am building my car using #2. Slow process, and have a long way to go, but I am doing my OWN work.....and that makes my car the "baddest" in my book.
 

2MANYTOYS

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Baddest might also require a proven system that has been on the street for a decent amount of time, has a large number of systems out that have proven to be reliable.

Which in fact makes Heffner the KING. I'm sure he has the most systems on the street including the Most Videos out for sure(thanks to GaryJ! :eek: ), fastest Viper in the 1/4, Pump Gas Drags Winner, etc, etc. :headbang:

SVS is also the REAL DEAL. They mix it up in their racing outside of the 1/4. Which is more than Awesome for them and for the Viper Community. They've been around a long time also. :2tu:

Anyone up for a SuperTuner Shootout, Viper Style? We'd all love to see it, but the problem is that NOT too many guys want to drive these 2000hp Snakes down a 1/4 mile, let alone a Full Mile, and only one knucklehead has driven it past that in straight line competition. :nana:

Who's the Baddest?? :bonker:



Doesn't Underground Racing hold the fastest Turbo and S/C 1/4 mile times with a six speed? :D
 
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DanAuito

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Ahy Hemibeep, I'm just up the road from you here North of Tampa. I spoke with Larry Macedo the other day, I do believe he's your go to guy for any trouble along the way.

My first upgrade is going to be the Roe and Larry's gonna be that "go to guy!"

I hope you still have that 69 Road Runner, that and the 68 were my absolute favorites!
 

hemibeep

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Dan,
I've heard great things about Macedo. I have also dealt with Dave at Roe's. I think FL is very lucky with a lot of great tuners for the Viper.

And yes, still have the 69'runner.
Let us know when you pick up the car....also some Orlando and Lakeland VCA events coming soon if you are ready..
 
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DanAuito

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Headin down to Naples this weekend to pick it up. Then back home. Looking forward to starting to play around with it,tuning, tweeking and detailing. It's going to be beginning of June before I can come out to play. :~( I'll come down and see ya, the folks and all my buds are out your way.
 

Paolo Castellano

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

My DIY Viper TT has put down around 1100 RWHP on 12 PSI with some more tuning left on the table.

We are shooting to refine the tune and run some bigger power at the same boost level and then up the boost in the next couple of weeks.

My DIY Viper Twin Turbo system is the only one that allows one to run the same big turbos the fastest Vipers in the world are running(76GTS's).

76GTS's can fit on my system without cutting the frame.

My DIY also features the ability to run air filters on the turbos which is a big plus for street driving where some of the race cars cannot fit air filters on their 76 GTS's.

My system is the only one out there that is upgradeable from the entry level turbos all the way up to the 76 GTS's.

We are just a few dyno sessions away from some big #'s and a couple times away from running a solid # at the track.

The potential and design of my system is definitely worthy of consideration for anybody thinking about a Gen 2 Viper twin turbo.
 

Flawed

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I am doing my OWN work.....and that makes my car the "baddest" in my book.

You got that right. Anyone with money can go buy a package. It is the guy who can do it himself that puts him above the others sitting in the parking lot. I build every car I've owned. There is no one baddest. That is just silly. All the above mentioned are good for all sorts of reasons. That said, I'm building my own car again. ;)
 
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DanAuito

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I started this silly post and tend to agree! There is no one best, biggest and or baddest. It has brought out exactly that!
I think for that reason that the question was worth asking, many good builders have been brought up and many reasons for what everyone individually thinks constitutes the best.
I agree that the car you work on, drive and enjoy is the best!
Thanks to everyone who participated and made this thread as interesting as it is. I really appreciate all the posts gents and will not feel as though I have to build some 1000HP plus monster to feel good about going to the shows, meets and other events!

If it's yours: It's the best!
 

Cop Magnet

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

SVS does the least advertising? Every time they have a video, dyno number, or run a race, they "congratulate" themselves here!

Big, you missed one other point:

10)funny how the two biggest supporters for SVS have barely 50 posts combined...makes you wonder...
 

JGK95

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

SVS does the least advertising? Every time they have a video, dyno number, or run a race, they "congratulate" themselves here!

Big, you missed one other point:

10)funny how the two biggest supporters for SVS have barely 50 posts combined...makes you wonder...

Not so,

I think SVSi is a Million bucks Too and I've made more posts than both of them! Jr. and his crew are professional and Jr. is a More-than-Talented: Road Racer, Record Setter at Maxton and an All Around Humble and Great Guy. I just would'nt come off as abrasive as those two guys have!


Additionally,

I've seen Paolo Castellano's DIY TT in person, Extremely Close Up, and have no words to describe The Perfection that is his Twin Turbo Setup. Every bend has a reason and purpose. There's pictures in his gallery both here and at the Alley of Gary H's Yellow RT-10 that look both surgical and fantastic! I have learned lots from him and now understand "Its the Area under the Curve"

Gary Holloway's system on a previous bone stock car(with the exception of 1.7 T&D’s) made 648 RWHP and 744 RWTQ on 5.75 PSI.

644Gary_Holloway_installation_2-28_2-med.JPG


644John_D_Amico_dyno_s_648_RWHP_744_RWTQ.jpg


Additionally, When Paolo's Blue Bomber 96 GTS hits the street...Look out!

Cheers,

Jay K.
 

futureacrowner

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

One thing i'd like to open a discussion on. Saying that any HP level "physically isn't possible" based on boost pressure does nothing but show inexperience. Pressure doesn't dictate HP, flow (as in #'s of air) does. It is absolutely possible to make 1500hp at 17pss. They are flowing just as much air as the 25psi guys, with less restriction.

Didn't paolos car make 1500rwtq on like 15psi? (I don't recall the actual number, but it was in that area)

Just cause some mask their inequalities with abundant pressure doesn't mean it's an absolute requirement.
 

Joseph Dell

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Ok futureACR. I'll bite. What efficiency of head (aka, how much cfm) must a head flow in order to support 1500rwhp at 17psi? sure, pressure is a measure of efficiency, and 10psi on a well flowing motor will make more power than 15psi on a poorly flowing motor. But back it up with some #'s? I'm skeptical of any viper motor flowing that much cfm because I _have_ run the numbers...

your turn!

JD
 

Svsi

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I agree with Jimmy Mclain 100%.

Joe the VE of the engine with the JM race cylinder heads is much higher than the GTSR CNC heads that we made 1725hp at the wheels with. The system that SVS has on the car the intercooler,turbos,cam,lifters,heads,block,dry sump system and the excellent tuning and time that is spent on perfecting this complete system has made this one of the most efficient turbo applications that has ever been done to the Viper V-10. Joe when you run consistent 55&60 degree chargeair temps on a 8500rpm engine that has the same 76 /96 a/r turbos that you are running,sit back and figure out the efficiency. If you doubt us now what are you going to say when it makes over 2000hp @ the wheels the next time we tune the car. I forgot to tell you that the JM cylinder heads flowed 70cfm more than the GTSR heads. If you had all the information you would be a believer. I gave you some very important facts for you to use. I would like to share with you that if Paulo continues to spend enough money with Mike LeFever at Mitech and not have as many problems getting to where SVS is now, he to will build his system very efficient. It only takes money and time. Mike knows how to build a very good Turbo system let him do it. All we are going to do is build them for our customers that can afford them and have the balls to beat our records go out and do it. And we will help them do it. SVS's goals are coming full circle this year and next.

Ron Sr
 

Joseph Dell

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I'm just an average guy here. but am i hearing you right that you are saying you made 1725 rwhp on 17psi?

:eek: wow. :nana:

Standard JM stryker heads flow [email protected]. the race ones are, what, [email protected]? help me with the math as i must be mis-calculating. if you want to take it off-line, i've got nothing to prove so i'm happy to do that. but i'm definitely curious.

JD
 

Svsi

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I dont see where I said SVS made 1725rwhp on 17lbs? I do think the next time that we tune it that we make 1700rwhp with 20lbs of boost.I will invite you up and if we dont SVS will pay your expense,what do you think of that Joe? When SVS does it you can pay for the tuning and come on this board and let everyone know [Who's the Baddest]
 

Paolo Castellano

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

One thing i'd like to open a discussion on. Saying that any HP level "physically isn't possible" based on boost pressure does nothing but show inexperience. Pressure doesn't dictate HP, flow (as in #'s of air) does. It is absolutely possible to make 1500hp at 17pss. They are flowing just as much air as the 25psi guys, with less restriction.

Didn't paolos car make 1500rwtq on like 15psi? (I don't recall the actual number, but it was in that area)

Just cause some mask their inequalities with abundant pressure doesn't mean it's an absolute requirement.

Futureacrowner, My car made 1509 RWTQ at 24PSI through an automatic transmission in overdrive on a Mustang dyno with a set of heads that flow a good 40 less CFM on the intake at .600 lift than a set of Greg Good heads. The valves had a bunch of shims instead of more accurate machining and sizing with a pair of 71 GTS's that are rated at about 200-250 less HP EACH(4-500 HP less in total) than the 76 GTS's being run by SVS.
 

Paolo Castellano

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Joe the VE of the engine with the JM race cylinder heads is much higher than the GTSR CNC heads that we made 1725hp at the wheels with. The system that SVS has on the car the intercooler,turbos,cam,lifters,heads,block,dry sump system and the excellent tuning and time that is spent on perfecting this complete system has made this one of the most efficient turbo applications that has ever been done to the Viper V-10. Joe when you run consistent 55&60 degree chargeair temps on a 8500rpm engine that has the same 76 /96 a/r turbos that you are running,sit back and figure out the efficiency.

<font color="blue">Ron I have no doubt the combination of the Engine build you have done supplemented with the JM cylinder heads combined with a 55 degree intake charge will make some decent power to say the least! </font>

If you doubt us now what are you going to say when it makes over 2000hp @ the wheels the next time we tune the car. I forgot to tell you that the JM cylinder heads flowed 70cfm more than the GTSR heads.

<font color="blue">Ron are you saying the JM cylinder heads flow 400 CFM at .600 lift?

I know they are a better design in every way than the GTS-R heads and are stronger and have better cooling capacity, but they do not flow 400 CFM according to Jeff Morys who designed and built these heads. </font>

If you had all the information you would be a believer. I gave you some very important facts for you to use. I would like to share with you that if Paulo continues to spend enough money with Mike LeFever at Mitech and not have as many problems getting to where SVS is now, he to will build his system very efficient. It only takes money and time.

<font color="blue"> Ron, Mike is building the motor and doing the tuning. He has been building turbo engines successfully for Bonneville for over 25 years.

He built the engine and turbo system for the first stock bodied production vehicle that went over 300 MPH at Bonneville.

I will certainly benefit from Mike's years of experience at Bonneville when the engine is finished and my car is ready to go. </font>

Mike knows how to build a very good Turbo system let him do it.

<font color="blue">Ron, I designed and built the original system on my car.

I spent every waking moment of my life after work until 3:00 or 4:00am and every weekend at least 16-18 hours Saturdays and Sundays for over 14 months to build a system more efficient than all the rest including yours(no offense).

Seeing your system on the engine stand was very motivating to say the least!

I set out to do something completely different than your design and accomplished the following:

My system has equal length headers within .6% of each other in length.

The turbo exhaust is nowhere near the pipe coming from the intercooler going into the throttle body.

My system has the capacity for dual 5" exhaust.

My turbos are mounted to the engine and there is flex built into the system in all planes of movement in regards to where the engine mounts flex and the frame/chassis is rigid.

The air intake for the turbos comes straight in through the front bumper.

The flow of exhaust gases into wastegate and back into the exhaust on my car is perfect.

By the time I called Mike, everything above was already completed.

I had help initially welding, but the design is all mine, Mike had nothing to do with the system that was on my car or the slightly upgraded version to fit turbos bigger than the ones that were on before.

With a Mike LeFevers, Mitech engine my system SHOULD be more efficient and more powerful than any Viper before it.

I have learned quite a lot by doing myself, I still have a lot to do and to learn just like everybody else out there.

I conceptualized, designed and fabricated just about the entire front mount DIY Viper TT system myself.

I build all the prototypes to the point whereby many of the jigs are made.

I have also built a single and twin setup for a Mustang.

The quality of my welds is getting to the point where it looks pretty good.

My fabricator still welds everything for anything I sell to my customers.</font>

All we are going to do is build them for our customers that can afford them and have the balls to beat our records go out and do it.And we will help them do it. SVS's goals are coming full circle this year and next.

<font color="blue">Ron, that seems like a nice goal!

I believe my DIY TT system is the capable of similar efficiency to your Stryker TT system with the proper motor, engine management, tuning. I should have some #'s to show we are going in the right direction in the very near future! :2tu: </font>
 

ZX12

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I agree with Jimmy Mclain 100%.

Joe the VE of the engine with the JM race cylinder heads is much higher than the GTSR CNC heads that we made 1725hp at the wheels with. The system that SVS has on the car the intercooler,turbos,cam,lifters,heads,block,dry sump system and the excellent tuning and time that is spent on perfecting this complete system has made this one of the most efficient turbo applications that has ever been done to the Viper V-10. Joe when you run consistent 55&amp;60 degree chargeair temps on a 8500rpm engine that has the same 76 /96 a/r turbos that you are running,sit back and figure out the efficiency. If you doubt us now what are you going to say when it makes over 2000hp @ the wheels the next time we tune the car. I forgot to tell you that the JM cylinder heads flowed 70cfm more than the GTSR heads. If you had all the information you would be a believer. I gave you some very important facts for you to use. I would like to share with you that if Paulo continues to spend enough money with Mike LeFever at Mitech and not have as many problems getting to where SVS is now, he to will build his system very efficient. It only takes money and time. Mike knows how to build a very good Turbo system let him do it. All we are going to do is build them for our customers that can afford them and have the balls to beat our records go out and do it. And we will help them do it. SVS's goals are coming full circle this year and next.

Ron Sr

What do you think is the theoretical usable upper horsepower limit of a Viper engine, running twin turbos and all the latest hi-tech management equipment? Is 3000 or even 4000 horsepower possible? Even at 2000 hp, that's approaching the power to weight ratio of military helicopter turboshaft engines! Imagine the Apache (or Cobra) gunship with a TT Viper engine! Of course the chopper engines are rated for combat/continuous duty with wide safety margins, but still impressive nonetheless...
 

futureacrowner

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Ok futureACR. I'll bite. What efficiency of head (aka, how much cfm) must a head flow in order to support 1500rwhp at 17psi? sure, pressure is a measure of efficiency, and 10psi on a well flowing motor will make more power than 15psi on a poorly flowing motor. But back it up with some #'s? I'm skeptical of any viper motor flowing that much cfm because I _have_ run the numbers...

your turn!

JD

I have an idea of what I would like to see in a set of heads, and hopefully that will come to be one day... Maybe sooner than later.

But remember it's not all about peak flow. Yes CFM is important, but you also need to take into account air velocity, low/mid lift flow, cross section area etc. The efficiency comes from how much air can be stuffed into the chamber in a full cycle, and the way in which it enters the cylinder to effect burn pattern .

You guys keep talking CFM, but at what vac? 25 or 28" ? Has anyone done a wet flow on these heads to see what they are really doing at that pressure, as well as higher/lower pressures?

If I had it my way a set of viper heads would be well over 400cfm/25" on the intake and toss the valve over .700" I'll leave the rest of you to ponder which direction to go with the port volume, chamber shape/volume etc. The JM heads are good, and by far the best available. But they were flawed from the start. The fact that they were designed to be used with a stock intake manifold and exhaust puts a huge limit on what you can do.

When people get serious about making power they will start looking at who is already doing it. Truthfully 3hp/ci at 2bar is nothing to get overly excited about.


As for the "theoretical limit" It's hard to say. The blocks have been holding up very well thus far. Going to a front and mid mount motor plate I think they will hold 2500hp. At some point people are going to start splitting blocks in half, or just lifting the heads due to the lack of side studs.
 

Crazy1

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

Great to see everyone exchanging information and pushing the Viper Nation forward rather than bashing.

For me there would be nothing better than making the Viper the absolute dominate platform for high performance records with the help of all these great builders. This will only help to build a reputation and increased value for all our Vipers much the way the Supra's did this in the 90's.

As much as I like Corvettes, Supras, Imports and just about any vehicle that moves fast for me there never has and likely will never be anything better than a Viper! It's an American brand, low volume, unique and exotic that with the help of all these great builders and spreading the word - can be the baddest 1/4 mile, 1 mile, Top speed, Road Racing vehicle on the planet. For me this is what makes the BADDEST VEHICLE (I think we all agree on this one). We all have this incredible platform to take it to any level our hearts desire whether Dodge does it for us or not and I for one am very thankful!

By the way, I also wanted to say with all the negative discussion that seemed to be started over my posts and everyone asking who I am, if I am a real Viper owner, own the cars I have listed, if I am a VCA member and so on - I just finished an enourmous upload of imagery and even a few web links to my personal member library for all to view and enjoy!

I have some wonderful Viper Posters I designed along with photos of my current vehicles, a few friends rides and a couple other joys in my life and career.

Check it out:

http://gallery.viperclub.org/showgallery.php/ppuser/9382/cat/500


Thank You,

Jim McClain
President, bmedia
www.bmediaweb.com
 

DynoDaddy

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Re: Who\'s the Baddest?

I have the fastest 1996 Viper running pump gas with BFG drag radials with a pair of thumb handcuff bedroom toys hanging off the rearview mirror... Top that!
 
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