Why the cam and piston change???

2BADD 4U

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Why did DC change from the lumpy cam of earlier engines? And why did they change to cast from forged pistons? What reasons? Advantages? Disadvantages?
Can you install a 97 lumpy cam into a 2002 GTS???

Thanks, Dave
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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My guess is wimps and cost.

The lumpy cam was too much for the masses and candyass critics.

The cast pistons are less costly than forged.

Of course, press releases will list different reasons.

Sometimes evolution is not a good thing.
 

SneakyPete

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3 reasons

1) Emmissions(OBD2 requirements got alot tougher)

2) Cost - They put in parts that are 1/2 the cost of the original earlier gen2 motors, and still raised the price. Thus they are making more on the bottom line, and average new viper buyer is non the wiser. The buyer thinks they are getting a full race motor, which is not the case with the newer motors.

3) Smooth out the idle.
 

BigCarrot

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Hyperucraptics ARE lighter than most forged pistons and stronger than regular cast pistons. I guess they wanted a lighter rotating mass..... Wait, what the hell am I thinking??? They wanted to save money. Everyone thinks the 96 97's had more power, but I have never had one beat me at the track or on the street. Mine dynoed 420 with k&ns and smooth tubes. What do some of the early gen II cars put down with just those mods?
 

BigCarrot

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I just got this email from someone, thought I'd post it.

In 1999, Chrysler deemed it necessary to change the pistons due to several
reasons. Most were the escalating transmission complaints and the quick to
replace a tranny dealers who were scamming the factory for new trannys.

Another reason was emissions, but not entirely. The actual emission output is
exactly the same as it was in 1997. In some cases it is worse.

The newer pistons are different as well as the rods. The different parts will
not interchange between years. With the lumpy cam you could run a much stronger
forged piston and have lotsa torque. It also worked very well at higher piston
speeds. The offset of this was greater thermal expansion and skirt slap. When
you soften a camshaft and everyone wants power, you have to find it elsewhere.
The intake was already close to max effiency and the heads could not be modified
without having to recertify the engine. The only other change that could be
made was to change the piston design.

What is different is that the hyperpathetic pistons are a high silicon content
design. With this they are thermally stronger to a small window. This allows a
closer piston to wall clearance which leads itself to less blowby, lower tension
rings, and reduced emissions. In addition to this, Chrysler engineers wanted to
be sure that they kept the power levels up so the wrist pin weight was changed.
You see, when you take valve duration away from the cam you have to get it
somewhere else. So, they raise the pin height in the piston to increase its
dwell time at Top Dead & Bottom Dead Center. This adds greater cylinder filling
and more squench with every revolution. Another reason why Creampuffs respond
SO well to nitrous and supercharging.

The drawback is that once the peak thermal limit has been reached for a
hyperpathetic piston, it flakes or cracks away. It literally self destructs.
It will not hold its heat treating and will shatter like glass. Forged pistons
will hold their structure, yet will actually melt at much higher temps due to
the slow annealing process in their heat treating. This is why forged pistons
are the ones of choice for all big nitrous and forced induction applications.

What can be done? You can ceramic coat the Creampuff slugs and forget the
problems, or buy a $1000.00 worth of new forged pistons. Ceramic coating costs
about $500.00 and is worth gold plating. Ford now supplies ALL its new 4.6 and
5.4 engines with ceramic coated pistons. They do this to reduce all scuffing
and to eliminate all possible piston failures with their forced induction
systems.
 

MaxedGTS

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TNT50511:
I have had both a 97 and a 2002. On the dyno with a TNT 505 package on both of them (actually I had my parts transferred to the new car when I bought it) the 97 made 472hp and 495tq at 14000 miles, the 02 with only 1200 miles made 468hp and 507 tq but between 3300 rpm and 4500 rpm it made 20 lb ft more torque. after 5000 rpm the 97 beat the 02 by 4 hp and 5 lb ft of torque. my 02 " feels " stronger and is much tighter than my 97.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Will a 97 cam fit in a 2000 viper?

Thanks,
Max
 

ronviper

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My 1987 Buick G.N. came with hyperucraptic pistons i have run 30+ lbs of boost without any piston failure. The only problem is detonation , if your fuel programme is ok you will have no problems. Forge pistons give more blowby at start up due to piston to wall clearances which are greater until the motor warms up. It seems the fastest time from the factory bone stock was a 2000 creampuff which ran 11.78 so take your pick.
 

luc

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I have no idea what is a "Hyperucraptic" piston, but a HYPEREUTECTIC piston,is a piston made with an alloy containing silicon in it,(between 15% to 20%).

Luc.00GTS
 

BigCarrot

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Hyperu-CRAP-tic. Get it? I knew you would.
jester.gif
 

Matt M PA

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It seems to me that the main reason for reducing mass and smoothing out the idle was due to year 2000 rules demanding knock sensors to detect at idle speed. The lumpy idle would not allow these to work. Cast pistons are part of emissions as well, as they fit better and allow less cold start-up emissions.
 

HP

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The GEN II engine traded off the 'bullet proof' forged pistons
for the close fit emissions/production friendly hypereutectic/cast pistons. The GEN II's gave some power, with
the milder cam, but made it up with the longer rod ratio.
So ... take the GEN II motor, get the shorter pistons in the
forged variety, slip in a performance cam suited to that set-up
and you would have the best of both?
 
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