Wrecked Viper... what's it worth?

[RickL]

Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

In you opinion what would this car be worth by looking at the pics? It's a '97 GTS with a salvage title and 50,000 miles but I think I can get it VERY CHEAP. Also without knowing exactly what parts it needs to be repaired, what do you think repair costs would be? From looking at it, it looks like it may just need some suspension and paint work, but I know many people on here know what they are looking at and know what they are talking about when it comes to these cars so I figured this would be the place to ask.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rleblanc80/lst?.dir=/Viper+Wreck&.view=t

Thanks!

-Rick

 

[RickL]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Anyone?

-Rick

 

[Jason-Middle Tennessee]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

By the looks of the front left wheel it may have some frame damage. The frame is VERY fragile even in a small mph crash. That's something you would for sure want to check on. How cheap is cheap if I may ask?

 

[MES]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Wow that does look like a nice car to rebuild! What's "very cheep"? It's probably going to need a new frame, front & rear suspension. Figure $20-25K to fix maybe less if you do alot yourself. The car in perfect condition with 50K miles is worth in the low-mid $40K's I would guess. So $40K for car less $25K to fix = worth $15K so very cheep = less than that. Resale value if you get it fixed will be in the mid $30's with that history and mileage, again just guessing. The parts are the expensive thing, the paint and labor will be no more than a regular car.

 

[JonB]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

ORGAN DONOR.

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~~~~~~:<~

 

[jimandela]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

jon,
love your reply

here comes jon

 

[RickL]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Thanks for the replies! I am thinking I can get it for around $15K but I won't know until Tuesday. Also the guy that informed me about the car said something about taking it out of state and titling it so the title comes back clear instead of salvage. He says you still have to say clear with damage history when you sell it but that's better than salvage.

Any other repair price guesses? Thanks again

-Rick

 

[Viperrick]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Looks real nice. I can't believe someone will let it go for 15k. A few years ago cars which were rolled had asking prices in the high 20's. Major body work required. This one just has some minor scuffs. If you can get it for that type of money you shouldn't think twice. If you need a frame send me an e-mail as I might be able to help you out.

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Be real careful on this one. The car is a high mileage car. Insurance companies won't let it go unless it costs more to fix the car than it's worth.

A new frame is going to be $8k. Looks like it will need one. The book wants 30 hours labor (just for the frame). But it will take longer to do it right.

From a distance, I would say the repair bill will be close to $30k in repairs. If you pay $15k, you paid too much.

 

[Clayton Kresge]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RickL:
I am thinking I can get it for around $15K but I won't know until Tuesday. Also the guy that informed me about the car said something about taking it out of state and titling it so the title comes back clear instead of salvage. He says you still have to say clear with damage history when you sell it but that's better than salvage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rick,

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I know the auction that car is being sold at next week, and I know for a fact that at least one person (not me) is willing to bid in excess of $26,000 for the car, not that it will go that high, but I know that someone is prepared to bid that much if that's what it takes to get it, probably several people.

Regarding the title, there is no benefit from "cleaning" the title, unless you're trying to commit fraud. Once a car is titled as salvaged, its always salvaged. If you retitled the car it would have to be disclosed as "Previous Salvage" not "previous damage" and Carfax would always have a record of the salvage title.

 

[dansauto]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

I be right there bidding on it against you-aint no way that car will do less than 25K I have bid on many a viper thru CoPart. I am a rebuilder and no the market well-I have looked this car over and I you don't have experiance with fixing frame and suspension damage on a viper your in for a real suprise!

 

[jamie furman]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

The only way that car is worth more than 15k as a parts car with that kind of mileage, you are better off buying a nice under 20k miles gts somewhere in the 40's.Let the rebuilders and parts guys make the money, you don't have the time or money to waste.Like the guy said his buddy is going to bid over 25k for it, and you can believe they are going to resale it, and that car is not getting a new frame it is getting repaired and aligned and scrathes and dings repainted probally for less than 5k and then resold guaranteed! If your not in the business don't mess with it.My 2 cents

 

[Double Venom]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

I've been pulling, straightening, replacing frames for over 30 years. I have no idea where everyone is implying the frame needs "replaceing" from those photo's. IS there more pictures somewhere? Is someone seeing more than I am?

The doors are still in alignment, no induced damage to any adjoining panels, windshield is not stress cracked, roof does not appear to have any buckels in it. Right door is slightly adjar...is this because it wasn't totally closed or is this as closed as it gets.Left door appears to fit perfectly. Seems to be some damage at rear edge, but it doesn't appear to be consitant with frame damage. Would like to see a closer picture of that.

From the photo's it appears to be nothing more than some suspension damage with the most needed, maybe a tweak on the frame horn(s).

To many unknowns here! The largest factor, if it is as I say, then why did the Insurance company scrap it? Or did they, is this not an assumption also. Are you "sure" it is being sold as a salvage vehicle? Looks almost like a reposession. Maybe a stolen/recovered and the owner refused to take it back. Lots of possible maybe's.

JonB says it all.

If this goes at auction for less than 25k I will be very surpised. Just my 2-cents worth of observations, change included.

Wouldn't want to give the location would you?
DV

 

[Viperrick]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

i agree with Double Venom in that this car does not seem to have frame damage that is readily visable. Even with 50K on the odometer I can't see it going for less than 20K. I remember bidding on a wrecked early yellow roadster 3 years ago which had been smacked good and possibly rolled. That one went for 19K. Probably 4 more than it was worth.

 

[Clayton Kresge]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Double Venom:

From the photo's it appears to be nothing more than some suspension damage with the most needed, maybe a tweak on the frame horn(s).

DV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DV,

The lower front frame rails on these cars are very fragile when subjected to any kind of impact. Typically, when the front wheel/suspension is impacted, the lower control arm substantially deforms the lower rail, often completely severing the rail. The cars come from the factory with holes in the lower rails right behind the control arm mounts which allow these rails to deform and break away under impact. In almost every case I have seen with this type of damage visible from the outside, these lower rails are substantially deformed or ripped to the point where IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO STRAIGHTEN THEM, although this is done quite frequently.

And yes, the car is being sold with a Maryland Salvage Certificate

 

[Ron Hickey]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

You must remember that even if you're able to buy the car real cheap and fix it for, say, $20K, you still have a Viper that's been wrecked and has a salvage title. The resale value will be less that what you have in it. Buying a wrecked Viper, thanks primarily to the high cost of parts, just doesn't work out well. There are too many perfect, garage queen Vipers out there for people to buy. If the car has high mileage (which, for a Viper, is over 15K miles) or a few normal road rash nicks or scratches, the resale value of the car is diminished. If the car's been in a minor accident, nobody wants it, even if the repair's top-notch. And if it has a salvage title -- close to worthless.

IF: (1) you could buy it cheap, (2) you were able to do most of the work yourself and thus pay very little to repair it, (3) you planned on keeping it for many years, and (4) you didn't care one whit about its resale value (because you're never going to sell it), then MAYBE it might be worth considering. But the car will have NO resale value. On the other hand, you could buy a respectable (never wrecked) 97 GTS for $40-45K, drive it right away without having to wait for it to be fixed, and have a car that has some resale value if you ever decide to get rid of it.

I wouldn't give this problem child a second thought. Leave it for the salvage vultures and/or racers.

 

[GTS Dean]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Left side whammie! Suspension links, wheels, lower frame rail damage, fascia, etc...

Gets expensive quick. Need to see the bottom. I'm interested in parts.

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Clayton,

You are right on. The front frames are SOFT metal. The middle to rear of the frames are stronger. A simple curb bump can bend the front frame.

You are correct about the holes in the frame. Apparently they wanted the frame to "give" for passenger safety.

The recommended repair method is to 'section' the frame and not straighten or bend the frame back. Once bent, it would be weak.

I can see why many of the steering racks are breaking loose. Metal brackets are welded only on one side only and the metal is a bit thin.

 

[JonB]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clayton Kresge:
Rick, Regarding the title, there is no benefit from "cleaning" the title, unless you're trying to commit fraud...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


B
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Ive got a stack (small) of titles! I'll sell you one, so YOU TOO can have a title, and NO CAR, and be a VCA member !!!!!!!!

 

[Double Venom]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

Clayton.
Couldn't agree more. Definately needs meausred preferably with a good Blackhawk, Kuhn, or Chief type laser system. It actually could be "Diamond", but I seriosly doubt it. The "holes*" and the nose of the frame if you will are all designed for crush or as stated earlier to help protect the passangers.

I say a minor tweak, anything other than that then an ICAR splice is mandatory. Seen too many pulled to far, metal fatigued and butchered back together. That kind of work is what gives the good guys a bad name.

There has to be more than we can see in those pictures to total that car! Would love to know what he / she hit.

JonB...do you ever make a mistake?

(I know... you hate smilies!)

But, he is so right about "washing" titles!
DV

*most "holes" are for assembly line frame jigs and actually not for the "crush factor". Some do both.

 

[George Murray]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

If you buy it for $15K, sell me the drivetrain for $5-7K, then part the rest out and make yourself a few thousand (a very few...not much). Plan on taking a year or more to sell the parts.

As a do-it-yourself project, it probably wouldn't be too bad as a rebuilder if you're personally skilled and restore cars as your major hobby.

Value-wise, you might be able to get $40K for the car if the paint is perfect after the car is redone, and you have a buyer who is local and is internet-clueless.

Salvage Vipers can surprise you. I'm an independent car dealer and I attend auctions two or three times per week. I know wholesalers who will pay $25 - 30K for salvage-rebuilt Gen 1 RT/10s in the spring/summer months. They'll go $5 - 7K higher for Gen 2 cars. That's if the paint job is very good.

Why? Because they can flip the car easily to a used car dealer and pocket a quick $1 - 2K per car, as there are plenty of used car dealers who can finance their buyers on a $35K Viper (like say...10 grand down, finance 25 or 30K). These are buyers who can't afford or have no interest in affording $50K for a two year old low-mileage car.

I have a salvage-rebuilt yellow 95 RT/10 with a so-so paint job. The car drives perfect, mainly because the guy who rebuilt the car drove it for 18 months and never stopped tweaking the suspension until he got it right. And get it right he did. This sucker tracks straighter and better than the 99 GTS a friend and I bought recently.

It all boils down to how well the work was performed.

If re-sale matters more than anything else, buy a low-mileage car from a divorce sale or something, park it in your garage and never drive it.

BTW...I'm always looking for rebuilt Vipers, CHEAP!

Best regards to all.

 

[JonB]

Re: Wrecked Viper... what\'s it worth?

CAR SOLD AT AUCTION FOR $32,400