ZO...WHO?

[Paul Hawker]

Can't imagine how the release of a 600 hp Viper must be spoiling lots of Christmas's for our friends over at Chevrolet.

Fords new 500 hp mustang is also quickly becoming yesterdays news.

Congratulations TEAM VIPER!

Truly a HAPPY NEW YEAR for the Viper Nation.

 

[lankhoss]

The 500hp Mustang never went anywhere. Even though they're selling for over MSRP, even Mustang lovers were upset with the over-weight under-performing pig. About the only thing it's good for, is a great platform for making lots of horsepower. I believe I saw a blower swap on the STOCK engine and fuel system made over 800rwhp.

Anyway, the new Viper looks badass. Isn't really spoiling Christmas for Chevrolet though....DC has had 2 years to trump the new Z, so now it's Chevy's turn to return fire. This is great for car enthusiasts!

(although I still stand behind my statement that the Z isn't meant to be competitive with the Viper)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

(although I still stand behind my statement that the Z isn't meant to be competitive with the Viper)

I don't recall your original statement, but I'd say performance-wise the two are most definitely competitors.

But that is where it stops. The target consumer is different for each.
Viper = no frills, raw, make the driver drive it attitude.
Vette = bells n' whistles and neato little electronic gadgets. Kick back and let the car do the driving while the driver talks on the cell.

Two different markets.

Maybe that is what your original statement referres to?

 

[lankhoss]

No, I have made statements in the past during the Z06 vs. Viper debates that I never thought the Z06 was in the same class as the Viper, nor was it MEANT to compete with it. The Viper has always been a 450+hp V10 beast, with limited production numbers, top of the line everything (from suspension to brakes to drivetrain), with a very exotic look/feel and limited production. And, of course, you have to pay a pretty hefty price for this package.

The Z06 was an upgraded Corvette Coupe with "similar to exotic performance, at an affordable price" The C5 Z06 was slower than the Gen II Viper, and quite a bit slower than the SRT-10. On top of that, it didn't have nearly as good of braking. The handling was the only thing that it even came close to in comparison with the Viper, and even then it fell behind. Basically, it was a mass produced Corvette....with a couple of body changes, and performance upgrades here and there...in a much more limited number than the regular coupe. It could also be had at a mere $5k over the price of a Coupe, putting it $30k cheaper than a Viper.

The new Z06 is nothing like the C5 Z06, not even close. About the only similarities between the C6 Coupe and the Z06 are the doors, hood, and interior. Other than that, the entire car has been re-vamped, and Chevrolet has added so many things to this car that they never have before. This is, by no means, a "regular" Corvette. Of all the "special" Corvettes in the past, none have been so far ahead of the Coupe as this. Think about the Grand Sport or Collector's Edition. The only Vette I can think of that is even comparable to the new Z06 was the ZR-1 back in 1990. And that car was HUGE back in its day. I still don't think it was as advanced from the Coupe as the current Z06 is.

That being said, it's possible the new Z06 was specifically targeting the Viper...but that is nothing more than speculation. From a selling standpoint, saying the Vette is faster than the Viper is awesome. However, saying the car can completely outperform a $250k Lamborghini or Ferrari in every category for $75k is an even bigger selling point, in my opinion. I think part of the reason the new Z06 has gotten so much attention is because of what I believe....that "special edition" Corvettes really aren't meant to perform as well as this one does. It's hard to even compare the C5 Z06 to the C6 Z, because this one is so vastly ahead of the C5.

This is the reason I think the Z06 isn't really meant to compare with the Viper, and it is my GUESS that this will be the last time the Z06 outperforms the Viper. The SS, Blue Devil, or whatever...is a completely different animal.

I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt we'll see Z06's outperforming Vipers in the future....unless they make them a lot more expensive.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Whatever the case may be the Z06 was created to compete with the Viper....Its faster in a straight line than the current Viper but its equal on the circuit tracks ....I cant imagine what this 600hp beast is going to do to the Z06, Porsche TT, Lambo etc on strip or circuit track Its going to be ugly...

 

[MikeR]

I think there may continue to be the war. The media has helped hype this. Maybe the Z06 wasnt originally planned to compete againt Viper,maybe it was. But now that Chevy has tasted this sort of marketing Victory, I think they will try to continue being top dog. As well as Viper trying to regain the throne it grabbed way back in 92 and held for such a long time.

As with the Mustang,Ford GT,Z06 ,new Camaro and on and on, its becoming easy to find a car with 500-600hp. Its going to have to have something else to seperate it from the masses. I think the Viper still holds that key right now.

But it will get tougher out on the streets. Before,no one would try so much as to race a Viper. I sure didnt, even when I had what I thought was a fast Camaro. But now in the Viper, I get guys in pumped up Neons, supercharged Mustangs,etc trying to have a go. These cars are easily reaching 500hp so now they all think they are ready to stomp the Viper. You can never be the fastest, I just dont want to see my same car in the same parking lot I pull into. With the Viper,I doubt that will happen.

 

[viper585]

No, I have made statements in the past during the Z06 vs. Viper debates that I never thought the Z06 was in the same class as the Viper, nor was it MEANT to compete with it. The Viper has always been a 450+rwhp V10 beast, with limited production numbers, top of the line everything (from suspension to brakes to drivetrain), with a very exotic look/feel and limited production. And, of course, you have to pay a pretty hefty price for this package.

The Z06 was an upgraded Corvette Coupe with "similar to exotic performance, at an affordable price" The C5 Z06 was slower than the Gen II Viper, and quite a bit slower than the SRT-10. On top of that, it didn't have nearly as good of braking. The handling was the only thing that it even came close to in comparison with the Viper, and even then it fell behind. Basically, it was a mass produced Corvette....with a couple of body changes, and performance upgrades here and there...in a much more limited number than the regular coupe. It could also be had at a mere $5k over the price of a Coupe, putting it $30k cheaper than a Viper.

The new Z06 is nothing like the C5 Z06, not even close. About the only similarities between the C6 Coupe and the Z06 are the doors, hood, and interior. Other than that, the entire car has been re-vamped, and Chevrolet has added so many things to this car that they never have before. This is, by no means, a "regular" Corvette. Of all the "special" Corvettes in the past, none have been so far ahead of the Coupe as this. Think about the Grand Sport or Collector's Edition. The only Vette I can think of that is even comparable to the new Z06 was the ZR-1 back in 1990. And that car was HUGE back in its day. I still don't think it was as advanced from the Coupe as the current Z06 is.

That being said, it's possible the new Z06 was specifically targeting the Viper...but that is nothing more than speculation. From a selling standpoint, saying the Vette is faster than the Viper is awesome. However, saying the car can completely outperform a $250k Lamborghini or Ferrari in every category for $75k is an even bigger selling point, in my opinion. I think part of the reason the new Z06 has gotten so much attention is because of what I believe....that "special edition" Corvettes really aren't meant to perform as well as this one does. It's hard to even compare the C5 Z06 to the C6 Z, because this one is so vastly ahead of the C5.

This is the reason I think the Z06 isn't really meant to compare with the Viper, and it is my GUESS that this will be the last time the Z06 outperforms the Viper. The SS, Blue Devil, or whatever...is a completely different animal.

I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt we'll see Z06's outperforming Vipers in the future....unless they make them a lot more expensive.

Nice post Brad. Good seeing you around here regularly!!

 

[lankhoss]

Hey AJ, long time no see!

 

[vipah]

Didn't you guys see the Corvette SS information on the Viper article? It said limited production SS at 650HP (I believe that is more than 600HP) and a price around $100k.

Will Viper responsd to this?

 

[Leslie]

Didn't you guys see the Corvette SS information on the Viper article? It said limited production SS at 650HP (I believe that is more than 600HP) and a price around $100k.

Will Viper responsd to this?

yeh I think it will be interesting to see how the blue devil and the new Viper compare

 

[lankhoss]

The new Corvette should be a lot faster. I think it's only gonna weigh like 2900lbs and be at least 650hp. Forged V8 with a blower. It'll make more HP than the current blown Ford motors, and the car will weigh 500lbs less than a Viper.

 

[viper585]

The new Corvette should be a lot faster. I think it's only gonna weigh like 2900lbs and be at least 650hp. Forged V8 with a blower. It'll make more HP than the current blown Ford motors, and the car will weigh 500lbs less than a Viper.

Would you build it if you knew that the current Viper motor was capable of HUGE HP (over 900) naturally aspirated? Well..if the Viper isn't the competition, then I guess you would. Just asking. I guess the real question is...would you build it knowing that the Viper was sitting with 700HP..or 750? And more importantly, could you sell them at 100k +.

 

[ViperJoe]

If only DC will work on a weight loss program to go along with the increased HP

 

[trumper Z06]

The C-6 Z06 was "benched-marked" against Porsche's twin turbo 911. David Hill, who was chief of Corvette Engineering at the time, specificly stated that the Z06's target wasn't the Viper, it was Porsche's TT. He didn't consider the Viper as being equal in performance to the new Z06!!!

The Dodge Boys have been Busy but... The Blue Devil at 650 hp. should have more Power and considerably less Weight than the Viper. If so, it will easily Trump the 2008 Viper.

It's a good time for all us car guys... let's hope the Insurance Companies don't put a Stop to the HP. race.

 

[Mopar426]

Would you build it if you knew that the current Viper motor was capable of HUGE HP (over 900) naturally aspirated? Well..if the Viper isn't the competition, then I guess you would. Just asking. I guess the real question is...would you build it knowing that the Viper was sitting with 700HP..or 750? And more importantly, could you sell them at 100k +.

Ummm the LS7 has the ability to make 900hp N.A. as well, what's your point?

 

[lankhoss]

The new Corvette should be a lot faster. I think it's only gonna weigh like 2900lbs and be at least 650hp. Forged V8 with a blower. It'll make more HP than the current blown Ford motors, and the car will weigh 500lbs less than a Viper.

Would you build it if you knew that the current Viper motor was capable of HUGE HP (over 900) naturally aspirated? Well..if the Viper isn't the competition, then I guess you would. Just asking. I guess the real question is...would you build it knowing that the Viper was sitting with 700HP..or 750? And more importantly, could you sell them at 100k +.

Um, yes. With the current weight of the Viper, it'd need 750bhp to run with the Blue Devil. Also, a forged big cube motor with a blower will be capable of well over 1000bhp. The 5.4L motors are making around that horsepower now.

I still maintain that the bigger selling point for the Vette is its competition with extremely high dollar exotics. The fact that it can compete with the Viper is just a nice statement to throw around, as well.

 

[viper585]

Would you build it if you knew that the current Viper motor was capable of HUGE HP (over 900) naturally aspirated? Well..if the Viper isn't the competition, then I guess you would. Just asking. I guess the real question is...would you build it knowing that the Viper was sitting with 700HP..or 750? And more importantly, could you sell them at 100k +.

Ummm the LS7 has the ability to make 900hp N.A. as well, what's your point?

Show me that info. Much higher than anything I have ever heard. N.A....no way.

 

[Fast Freddy]

Would you build it if you knew that the current Viper motor was capable of HUGE HP (over 900) naturally aspirated? Well..if the Viper isn't the competition, then I guess you would. Just asking. I guess the real question is...would you build it knowing that the Viper was sitting with 700HP..or 750? And more importantly, could you sell them at 100k +.

Ummm the LS7 has the ability to make 900hp N.A. as well, what's your point?

not on pump gas

 

[utahviper]

Let me start off by saying I have a gen2 viper, gen3 viper, and a viper truck. I have never owned a corvette...

Lets take a look at the HP war.....

Z06 3100 lbs 460 RWHP some have more
.1483 power to weight ratio(the higher the number the better)

NEW Viper 3400 lbs and if they stick to the below par drivetrain loss of the gen3 510HP flywheel equals 430 RWHP ~16% driveline loss then lets look at the new viper 600HP flywheel equals 504RWHP
.1482 power to weight ratio

If the info above is correct then my thought is with equal drivers the Z06 and the viper would be really close but unfortunately the z06 would probably win. No blow out here for sure!

HOwever, lets go back to the good ol days when creampuffs came out with 415-425rwhp stock at 450 flywheel horsepower. WAY UNDER RATED JUST LIKE THE VETTE!
2008 viper 540-550 rwhp and the rumored 200lbs weight loss
.1718 power to weight ratio
Now that would be a huge blow out! Lets hope it is like the good ol days!!!

 

[vipah]

Let me start off by saying I have a gen2 viper, gen3 viper, and a viper truck. I have never owned a corvette...

Lets take a look at the HP war.....

Z06 3100 lbs 460 RWHP some have more
.1483 power to weight ratio(the higher the number the better)

NEW Viper 3400 lbs and if they stick to the below par drivetrain loss of the gen3 510HP flywheel equals 430 RWHP ~16% driveline loss then lets look at the new viper 600HP flywheel equals 504RWHP
.1482 power to weight ratio

If the info above is correct then my thought is with equal drivers the Z06 and the viper would be really close but unfortunately the z06 would probably win. No blow out here for sure!

HOwever, lets go back to the good ol days when creampuffs came out with 415-425rwhp stock at 450 flywheel horsepower. WAY UNDER RATED JUST LIKE THE VETTE!
2008 viper 540-550 rwhp and the rumored 200lbs weight loss
.1718 power to weight ratio
Now that would be a huge blow out! Lets hope it is like the good ol days!!!

You need to redo the calculations with 580HP for the viper. that's what the article said anyway. And increase the Vette by 30%. Looks like a blowout now.

 

[FinalEd357]

I love 585's comments about potential max HP from this motor. It raises a great point: will Chevy put the new car out to soon after be one-upped by Team Viper? Probably, if they keep production low enough to sell all units, but if Dodge beats them to the punch they could likely reconsider. Kind of like playing Texas Holdem and trying to bluff an 'all in' with $1,000 chips when your opponent is sitting on $100,000 stack. Why bother... ???

Glad I sold my c6z06 last week - I think I just saved a few thousand in lost value.. Whew!

 

[NoRice]

How is this motor more capable than the current 505hp to make over 900hp NA? You bench racers crack me up. There is nothing so significant on this motor to enable to be that much better than the current GEN3 motor.

 

[lankhoss]

I don't think this will push the Z06's value down. It's gonna cost you AT LEAST $90k for this new Viper, and most are gonna go for way over MSRP (like the Z's did). I don't see that hurting the market for a comparable package that is selling for $75k.

There is also so very little info about the "Blue Devil" out, in fact no one even knows the name of it. I think it will be coming in 2009. Then the new Viper in 2010. Then it's Chevy's move again (or maybe Ford's?).

Anyway, the horsepower war is back, and I love it! (too bad I can't afford it)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I still maintain that the bigger selling point for the Vette is its competition with extremely high dollar exotics. The fact that it can compete with the Viper is just a nice statement to throw around, as well.

LOL Gee, thanks for including us. LOL

Seriously, if I had the scratch to choose between a Z06 and a Ferrari or Porsche, uh there would be no contest. I mean it's comical to mention "Corvette" in the same breath as an exotic. But hey, if that's what some GM exec said then so be it. LOL

 

[viper585]

How is this motor more capable than the current 505hp to make over 900hp NA? You bench racers crack me up. There is nothing so significant on this motor to enable to be that much better than the current GEN3 motor.

Forged internals to start. You need to research the motor a little. You might be real surprised at the potential FACTORY output.

 

[lankhoss]

I still maintain that the bigger selling point for the Vette is its competition with extremely high dollar exotics. The fact that it can compete with the Viper is just a nice statement to throw around, as well.

LOL Gee, thanks for including us. LOL

Seriously, if I had the scratch to choose between a Z06 and a Ferrari or Porsche, uh there would be no contest. I mean it's comical to mention "Corvette" in the same breath as an exotic. But hey, if that's what some GM exec said then so be it. LOL

I'm talking about a SELLING POINT, only. I'm not comparing it to those cars.

I'm just saying that it's a bigger sell if you can compare the Z06 (or ANY car) to a more expensive car, and Ferrari's and Lamborghinis are still 3X as expensive as a Viper.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I still maintain that the bigger selling point for the Vette is its competition with extremely high dollar exotics. The fact that it can compete with the Viper is just a nice statement to throw around, as well.

LOL Gee, thanks for including us. LOL

Seriously, if I had the scratch to choose between a Z06 and a Ferrari or Porsche, uh there would be no contest. I mean it's comical to mention "Corvette" in the same breath as an exotic. But hey, if that's what some GM exec said then so be it. LOL

I'm talking about a SELLING POINT, only. I'm not comparing it to those cars.

I'm just saying that it's a bigger sell if you can compare the Z06 (or ANY car) to a more expensive car, and Ferrari's and Lamborghinis are still 3X as expensive as a Viper.

"Selling point?" For what kind of customer, one that is deciding between a C6 or a Z06?

 

[NoRice]

How is this motor more capable than the current 505hp to make over 900hp NA? You bench racers crack me up. There is nothing so significant on this motor to enable to be that much better than the current GEN3 motor.

Forged internals to start. You need to research the motor a little. You might be real surprised at the potential FACTORY output.

No way will this motor make 900HP NA!!! Even with forged internals it will take alot of aftermarket parts to ever get close to that number. Just look at Norm and what he has done with his motor, though it is a Gen2. I believe Hennnesssey hasn't even come close to this yet with his bored/stroked Gen3 motors.

 

[viper585]

How is this motor more capable than the current 505hp to make over 900hp NA? You bench racers crack me up. There is nothing so significant on this motor to enable to be that much better than the current GEN3 motor.

Forged internals to start. You need to research the motor a little. You might be real surprised at the potential FACTORY output.

No way will this motor make 900HP NA!!! Even with forged internals it will take alot of aftermarket parts to ever get close to that number. Just look at Norm and what he has done with his motor, though it is a Gen2. I believe Hennnesssey hasn't even come close to this yet with his bored/stroked Gen3 motors.

I am not going to argue the point with you. Unless you have talked to a couple of the key guys that put this motor together...you are operating at a major disadvantage. Yeah...I have talked with them. Have a great night.

 

[REDSLED]

The terms "I think" "It should" "It might have" "I've heard"
All speculative, just like it was when the 03's were coming out, then again when the coupes were about to be released. Everyone is just guessing here, just like what happened when people went to VOI9. Everyone thought the grand poo-ba of all Vipers was going to be revealed. What happened? Everyone left with a huge case of "Viper Blue Balls" Has anyone actually seen a "2900 lb 650 HP Blue Devil Corvette" driving around? People are now making Viper speculations based on Corvette specualtions and comparing the two specualtions???? One can't rely on magazines for their info as their job is to sell stories. Why not just sit back and wait for the new car to arrive?