2005 SRT-10 Differences; Get a master list going...

[Viper Specialty]

Since one of these threads is SURE to come about at some point anyway, may as well get this out of the way STAT.

Here are my observed differences;

1. 2005's now come with 0W-40 Mobil-1 in them.
2. Crank Case Breather system has been switched to the front of the valve covers, instead of the back. (Anyone with an 05- any reason you can see as to why they may have done this...?)
3. Orange color option that is coming. (Same Red/Silver/Black otherwise)
4. Radio Head Unit Change.
5. Exhaust Insulation (Rumored to be a mid-2004 change)
6. $500.00 price increase (Periodic, as experienced every 1/2 model year)

Please add any additonal changes if you have found them.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Different radio/CD player (head unit)

Improved insulation for exhaust (rumor, but definitely seems cooler on the interior)

Increase in price by $500 or so

 

[Viper Specialty]

Different radio/CD player (head unit)

Improved insulation for exhaust (rumor, but definitely seems cooler on the interior)

Increase in price by $500 or so

Thanks, added yours in.

 

[VTen555]

Could the breather have been moved to help keep it free from sucking up oil under hard acceleration?

 

[Viper Specialty]

VTen555- Though I havent seen a 2005's breather system in person, It appears they did it for no other reason than to "move something".

The SRT-10's breathers in the top of the valve covers have a double wall, which is also filled with a synthetic fabric-like material. The way I see it, it really wouldnt matter where you located the breather on the valve cover itself, it is not going to get any oil through it. It was a very good design to begin with... maybe they needed to save that 5 cents in plastic tubing by only running it to the front? who knows...LOL.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Was there not a rumor that the crank pulley bolts were to return to the 03 style ???

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Was there not a rumor that the crank pulley bolts were to return to the 03 style ???

I will check on this. Brian also asked me to check and I just haven't had the chance. I will verify that (and look for other changes) today.

 

[SoFlaSRT]

Anybody know if the exhaust insulation can be retro-fitted by the dealers into older ones?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Y2K5SRT- Just tell me what size socket fits on the bolt, no need to remove it.

SloFlaSRT- I dont see any reason why it couldnt be done...?

 

[ViperInBlack]

Daniel:

What is the change in this radio head unit? Inputs, cosmetics, both, neither, all of the above, none of the above?

Alice

 

[Viper Specialty]

Daniel:

What is the change in this radio head unit? Inputs, cosmetics, both, neither, all of the above, none of the above?

Alice

Looks like they simply replaced the bass/treble adjustments with an internal menu and buttons instead.

 

[Brian E]

1 1/4 socket fits the 03, 13/16 fits 04.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Brian - Glad you got your measurement and sorry I couldn't be of more help. I don't have a socket that will fit the bolt on my '05, including the 13/16's. I think 7/8 would work on mine. For those others that have asked, following are BIG pictures of the changes from my '03 to my '05 (several of which may have actually occurred on the '04).

First off, the crank case breather location ('03 are the top photos and the '05 below):

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It looks to me like they already had a place for it on the '03, as indicated by the raised portion of the valve cover. Next up is the radio head unit:

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Besides the dirt (the '03 just wrapped up Viper Days Finals down in Oklahoma), the belts are different:

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Now I don't know if this change came in '04 or '05, but two gauges have different measurements on the '05 than they did on the '03. First, the oil pressure gauge:

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And yes, the '05 had just been started and that is the cold pressure with 0W-40. Next, the oil temperature gauge:

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Seems to me that the older gauge would be more accurate with less of a "spread". Now here were a couple things I noticed on the '05, the first of which I am 99% sure was on the '04 model year - an improved strip on the hood airbox seal:

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My '03 had a plastic film on the outside of this piece and it was peeling almost immediately. Different material too. Next up are the plug wires. I think my '03 just had "Mopar" logos and no numbering. The wires on the '05 are labeled with "Viper" and are numbered by cylinder. Nice!

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My '03 had the older style of exhaust warning (black on silver), which they changed on the '04 to a more colorful warning on a black background. They also had the strange warning about using video displays. My '05 also has this warning sticker, which I don't believe was on my '03:

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If anybody else has any "requests", let me know!

Chris

 

[Viper Specialty]

Clarifications:


-If a 7/8 comes close to fitting, it is atill a 13/16. This is fine, the problem was due to incorrect torquing, nothing more. Red-loctite for extra safety. (BIG problem was techs who refuse to use Torque Wrenches and tighten the Pulley Bolt with an Impact) Sorry guys! IT DOESNT CUT IT. Get out your freaking Tq wrenches I know you guys love so much!

-Belt change is Most likely just a new supplier... nothin more.

-I am having someone check into the RBQ changes a little more, to see if it is a design change, or just a superceeding model with a few different buttons. I just HOPE this new RBQ doesnt use CAN-BUS technology, or you 05 guys can cross off an RB-1 Navigation System in your Vipers!

-Gauge Changes occured in 2004.

-Hood Seal was revised in 2004.

-Plug Wires say Viper on my 2004.

-Stickers are listed on my 2004.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Couple Updates:

-RBQ change is only a style change, no wiring changes.

-Ribbed belt appeared in 04, not 05.

-2005 SRT's are now coming with Knock sensors, I dont know if it is a recent addition, or if it includes all 05's. I am looking into adding thise to previous SRT's. Should be possible, without too much of a hassle. I would think it is a simple input, and takes power from the same source as the other sensors, like other cars. The big question is whether they changed the PCM entirely, or just the software.

I suspect it is a software change, as this may coincide with the TSB on "rough running over 5000 RPM" for 2005's.

Y2K5SRT- Can you see if you are able to snap a picture or two of these sensors? They are located under the intake manifold, assuming all 05's are equipped.

Thanks,

 

[Hans Christian]

This might be dumb question but how do I know if my yellow vca came with knock sensors

 

[Viper Specialty]

There would be two sensors under your intake manifold which would be screwed into the block. I havent seen them in person yet, so I am not 100% sure what to expect. If you are able to post any pictures...please do!

Thanks,

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Okay, two apologies up front:

1. It is nighttime and I don't have one a them thar fancy garages with real lights. It's just a garage. Thus it is poor lighting (even with a portable spotlight) and not very good pictures.

2. I haven't the slightest clue what I am looking for, as Brian can attest to. I am one of those "learn as you go" mechanics and if I haven't wrenched it then I probably don't know much about it. I have replaced engines, water pumps, radiators, spark plugs, carbs, and all kinds of other stuff in my life. But I have no clue what I am looking at under the manifold of a new Viper. So try to hold the laughter if I am showing something that is pretty obviously not a spark sensor. I plead complete and total ignorance.

There are two pairs of items bolted and wired under the manifold. They are:

A. This smaller piece that looks like it screws directly into the block. There are two of these that I could see, with one at the front driver's side corner and one on the rear passenger side (sorry, don't know the cylinder numbers off hand). I can probably even get a part number off of these with some better light:

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B. This big-ass thing which has a couple larger wires (almost like spark plug wires) going into it that is mounted underneath. There are a pair of these as well, both pretty much dead-centered:

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Now if somebody can tell which of these is what you are looking for, I will post more of the pictures I shot tonight and try to get some better pictures during the daylight hours. Hope this helps!

 

[Viper Specialty]

You got it on the first try!

There you have it boys and girls... the new 05 Knock sensor.

PS- the second picture is indeed the Ignition Coil for the Spark Plugs.

Thanks,

 

[kenvw]

Daniel - Can these knock sensors be fitted on the 03 & 04 models?

 

[Viper Specialty]

KENVW- Looking into it... I would DEFINATLY like to do it myself. Certainly in the realm of possibility. Worst case scenario, would require having someone TIG weld the sensor mount onto the casting "fins" under the manifold. May also require swapping out the engine wiring harness, but the chassis harness can most likely be bypassed....though, it could be swapped as well. I am GUESSING Cost will be around 1500.00 to add, if you are CHANGING the harnesses and adding the sensor to meet 05 specs, or in the area of 400.00 if you are goig to run your own wiring.

I am definatly going on assumptions here, to which I am referencing parts I do know the prices of. I wont know much more on this until I can get some actual prices, get a wiring diagram, and see what is actually cooking here...

 

[Viper Specialty]

GOOD NEWS! I did some research on the Knock sensors today, and it certainly looks to be an attainable modification, sub-$1000 price range. I will put a kit together in the coming months if everything pans out.

Y2K5SRT- Can you supply any better pictures of the Knock sensors, now that you know which ones they are?

Also, would it be possible for someone to snap a picture of the Crank/Flywheel sensor location on an '05? 04's have it located on the passenger side of the engine, pointing towards the rear of the car on the engine side of the "clutch housing". (opposite the starter)

 

[KenricGTS]

Is having the knock sensor that much better? Or is it just a piece of mind thing so the engine does not get hurt?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Y2K5SRT- Can you supply any better pictures of the Knock sensors, now that you know which ones they are?

Also, would it be possible for someone to snap a picture of the Crank/Flywheel sensor location on an '05? 04's have it located on the passenger side of the engine, pointing towards the rear of the car on the engine side of the "clutch housing". (opposite the starter)

Dang it, you need to post these requests when it is light outside! Rather than set up "iffy" lighting tonight, I will get some decent ones tomorrow. Is the crank sensor something I need to get under the car to see? If so, I am out. Otherwise I will try to get some shots of that as well. In the meantime, here are two other shots of the knock sensor I shot the first night (when I had no clue what I was looking at). The first one may even have a part number for it - not bad for a shot in the dark!

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[Viper Specialty]

Y2K5SRT- Thatnks for the pictures, they are indeed helpful! I have a firm grasp on the sensor itself, if possible in better lighting, can you try and see if you can get a picture of the mount that they are sitting on? Perhaps a picture a little further away too to give a reference point of its location?

The Crank Sensor should visable from the top, depending on where they moved it to (if they did). I will post/send a picture of it tomorrow if I can get one so you know what to looc for.

Thanks!

 

[99 R/T 10]

Y2K5SRT- Thatnks for the pictures, they are indeed helpful! I have a firm grasp on the sensor itself, if possible in better lighting, can you try and see if you can get a picture of the mount that they are sitting on? Perhaps a picture a little further away too to give a reference point of its location?

The Crank Sensor should visable from the top, depending on where they moved it to (if they did). I will post/send a picture of it tomorrow if I can get one so you know what to looc for.

Thanks!

If the car now comes with knock sensors, it would be reasonable to assume the computer would have been changed to accomadate the capability to retard the spark when needed. Daniel, to retrofit with a new computer(if needed), do you think the price will stay under $1K?

 

[Viper Specialty]

99 RT/20- Yes, it would! The computer is actually amazingly cheap! The retrofit would include a new computer, a new engine wiring harness, sensors, sensor mounts, Body wiring bypass, and instructions. The power supply for the sensors is managed through the engine harness, but their outputs are completely separate and nothing else changes-as I had expected-other than the connector C104 that goes from a 14 pin on an 04 to a 20 pin on a 05 (Original 14 pins, plus 2 outputs for knock sensors, and 4 unused. C104 connects engine to body) Installation would require the attaching of the sensors to the engine gallery, replacing the engine harness, swapping of C104 connector and PCM, and the running/insertion of ouputs in the C3 PCM connector.

Its going to take me some time to get all of this in order, as the Dodge 05 manual and parts system still doesnt list any info about the sensors itself- even part numbers, and I dont have any hands on experience as of yet. But rest assured.

 

[luc]

And what will be the end result of so much work and $?
A more powerfull engine?
A longer lasting engine?

I never heard of an viper engine knocking or pinging,The engine has a pretty low CR,is not used for towing (at least on the Viper) and a lot of motorcylce engines run 12+CR on 91 without knock sensor.
You should try to find out why DC put on knock sensor in the 05 before trying to retrofit earlier model.
One guess is that the same engine is used on the new "towing ready" truck and when you pull an heavy load going uphill, a knock sensor do make sense.

luc.00GTS

 

[Viper Specialty]

LUC- I already know why DC put it on- I am not shooting in the dark here. You are correct, it was added due to the Ram now being tow rated. However, the reason it was added is pale in comparison to the advantages of actually having it. a Knock sensor has long been something that tuners "missed" having on a Viper.

The end result is that a Knock sensor (on an otherwise stock car) can help to prevent engine damage should you run into a dishonest gas station, have some other type of problem where leaning could occur, etc. However, that is not the main reason I am doing it. It is geared towards those who plan on modding their engines, whether it be raised compression in an NA application, or a forced induction application. Having a knock sensor is a no-brainer in those applications. Being able to log knock is a very helpful thing when it comes to tuning. A knock sensor can "hear" things that we cant, and alert you to a problem that you may otherwise overlook.

GM, Mitsubishi, Infinity, etc all have knock sensors on their engines. Case in point, the GM LS1 has a knock sensor, and runs NA with a 10:1 Comp ratio from the factory- it also calls for premium fuel. This is less than 1/2 point higher than a Viper engine, yet GM feels that it needs to include such a device. Surely there must be a reason for doing something like this- it does cost money after all. Another case, the Mitsubishi 6G72TT engine, used in the 3000GT VR-4 and Dodge Stealth TT. Those engines only run 8:1 compression, but are boosted at either 9 PSI or 11 PSI depending on the year- and come with forged internals. They STILL have knock sensors.

In conclusion, I think Knock sensors should have been on Viper engines from Day 1. I am glad they FINALLY did it, for whatever reason. As this continues to unfold, the price also continues to drop. Currently, It looks like it can be done for around 750, perhaps even less.

Any other questions, let me know.

 

[SRT10]

Good job Daniel! Please keep us informed.