A&C Performance - Screwed me - Watch out

Discussion in 'Vendor Review: A&C Performance' started by viperfuntime, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. 99 R/T 10

    99 R/T 10 Enthusiast

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    Well, this clears up my mis-givings. Todd, sounds like you did the best you could. You shoule be commended for taking in somebody else's problems.

    Since the poster(thread starter) doesn't seem too honest(two sign-ins is shady at best here), I would conclude either you didn't have a good line of communication with A&C or you tried to get something for nothing using their time and effort. :nono: :nono:
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  2. mbccenter

    mbccenter Viper Owner

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    Now that is the great service from A&C that I am used to. There are always two sides to every story and now the truth is out.

    It is very sad to see some one bend over backwards for some one to just get stabbed in the back. I hope this A** did not wear you down Todd. Keep up the great work.
     
  3. bmw2nv2000

    bmw2nv2000 Viper Owner

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    this sucks for everyone involved but I agree Jeff is obviously the "Cant be pleased" type. Sounds like he bought a problem car and wanted A&C Performance to make it all better.
     
  4. X-Metal

    X-Metal Viper Owner

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    guys, Todd at A&C is an awesome guy-bar none. i have known him and done business with him for a few years now.
    i personally know of his customers calling him past midnight, and Todd would come to their rescue. how many shops would do that??? if Todd tells me something, i know its legit. a twin turbo car from a shop that has changed ownership, not to mention it has over 8000 miles on it. the guy says is was a proven twin turbo with 8k...thats an oxymoron-- working on that is gamble unto itself. Todd, you were dealt a ****ty hand to begin with, it would would have been easier to piss up a rope.
    Todd, i am sorry you had to deal with this, and i am sure everyone really sees now that you went above and beyond. i have and will highly reccomend A&C to everyone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
  5. Shandon

    Shandon Viper Owner

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    I can see both sides as long as they are true. My opnion is that not enough patients was given to the situation not that my opnion means anything :lmao:. I for one can be very impatient but when your talking about an EXTREMELY modified viper any number of things can cause a problem. None of which is necessarily the installers fault. Im sure every shop has screwed up at one point or another.
    I bought a pair of 02 sims once that I had installed and later that week the check engine light came on and my dash temp guage whent crazy. Well I was pissed and the shop was clueless and so was most all the big shop names on this board. Turns out the o2 sim was bad and the ground wire it shares runs something for the temp guage too. Anyway it wasn't the shops fault and they were unable to drop everything and fix my problem right then so I had to wait a week (woof). Seems to me a long conversation should have taken place prior to sending the car to another shop. I mean seriously did A/C approve covering costs or did (impatience) get the best? Communication and calmer nerves on the owners side here probably would have prevented all this garb.:dunno:
     
  6. Blue Batmobile

    Blue Batmobile Viper Owner

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    Seriously, I wouldn't trust anyone with my Viper except Todd at A&C:headbang:. All 4 of my Vipers have been serviced there, with no issues whatsoever. And I know for a FACT, if there were any issues, Todd would address them. He's the kind of guy that won't go home until he's satisfied with the job he's done. Many times I've called him at night and he's still at work! Now thats dedication:2tu:.

    Bat
     
  7. viperfuntime

    viperfuntime Enthusiast

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    You are surely entitled to your opinion and that is what a forum is about but just realize you are hearing a detailed story from a guy who is not detail oriented. If he was.... this thread would have never started and my car would have worked. If he was only as detail oriented as his response.
    This was not charity work. He sold me an AEM System and Tune that never worked right and my motor took a crap under his watchful eye. Commended, wow, you sure are generous. Hey now, I bought a new 2009 and as such the twinturbo screen name doesn't fit the ticket any more. The communication was outstanding on my part and excuse and more excuses on his part. You are hearing one side of a story. Stay tuned for my responses.

    Yeah....stabbed in the back. That was me buddy you have the roles reversed. Better yet kicked when I was down.

    All I wanted was my car to work. I spent $20,000 with this shop and got an engine that did not run. I had to take it elsewhere because he was unwilling to commit to fixing it anytime soon. The process had dragged on with incompetence work for 2 months. My motor should not have crapped out, it was a proven motor with 9000 miles on it and low boost. And about your comment about not being pleased....you are damn right. Would you be? If you are someone who would be pleased with that so be it. Let's go back. He had a car and the motor blew under his watchful eye and the AEM he put in never worked in the way he installed it. Great workmanship!

    The only reason I called Todd at night was because I was stranded on the side of the road. I wish I didn't have to call him. And thanks Todd for not charging me for that call. You are kind hearted after I spent $$$$$ lots of it with you.

    Impatience is not the case. He delivered the car to me and it leaked oil and stalled. I then paid to ship it back to him and he then so called repaired it after 1 week and then I got it back and it stalled even worse stranding me on the side of the road with my wife. Communication and calmer nerves? I gave him every opportunity on the last call regardless of what he said in his post and he said I am sorry I just can't do what you want, I am moving and I don't know when I can get to it. I had no other choice in the end due to his incompetence and unwillingness to commit to ANY time to fix it.

    Good for you. Consider yourself lucky.
     
  8. viperfuntime

    viperfuntime Enthusiast

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    Here are my responses to Todd's Detailed Post -

    Start this off the right way.

    Jeff Gaines brought me a 2006 viper built by RSI that he bought SIGHT UNSEEN. Said that it had a fuel smell and an oil leak and that he had ONLY driven it 15 minutes before flatbedding it up to me.

    I spoke to the Owner in detail viewed many photos and reviewed work history on the car including all receipts before buying the car. The car did have what appeared to be a fuel smell in my garage and the oil leak I noticed coming from the bottom of the passenger side turbo, more on that later.

    We ordered up an AEM Unit and one of John Reeds custom plug and play harnesses before the car ever arrived. It currently had a split second which I dont feel comfortable using to tune 900HP or more. It's just asking for trouble have a TT build and run crummy engine management.

    First sign of trouble, doesn't do his own work. Second sign of trouble, the plug and play harness did not have the proper grounding wire installed which was later found out to be one of the reasons for stalling. The split second worked fine and ran the car for 9000 miles. Yes, AEM was supposed to be better and that is why I paid to have it done, or at least that was I had hoped for.

    He asked me to go over every nut and bolt on the car when it got to my shop.

    Yep - that is correct. I am detailed, forgive me for this.

    We first noticed the turbo leaking. I called him and advised it was not a loose fitting like he had thought, and it appears the turbo was just not draining fully too the the turbo oil line outlet being a hair lower than the drain going back to the motor.. His words were (the previous owner stated there were no leaks in the last 8000 miles) So I advised, ASSUMING the old owner was being honest and indeed there used to be no leaks, the turbo cartridge "may" need replacing and this was by far the cheapest thing to try first.

    Wrong - He said it appears its the cartridge and charged me $2000 for what was a bad turbo. His diagnosis later proved wrong and the turbo continued to leak. He later realized it was due to oil drain back.

    Bad Seals or whatnot. He agreed and we changed out the passenger turbo. 1100 for a turbo, 800 labor to replace and then associated fluids. I recontoured the return line for a more correct angle of flow and NO CHARGE.

    Yes, you did take my money and did the work and it didn't fix the problem. You never ate that cost either. You should have done more homework Todd to figure this out.

    This didn't fix the leak and it was then decided the turbo's were situated too low. The result of the fabrication from whoever built the turbo kit initially. SO, Jeff complained to the old owner who seemed very standup and the old owner PAID HIM FOR THE TURBO CARTRIDGE AT $1100.00.

    Absolutely, the Owner was honorable, more than I can say about you. I still paid all the labor for something that did not fix the problem. I still have the original turbo that was never defective. What am I going to do with this?


    We then went over every nut and bolt on the underside of the car. EVERYTHING, rear bumber, shocks, a-arms, driveshaft, transmission, literally every suspension and body component. We found a leak at the fuel filter housing oring, and corrected this. (all this was $200)

    Please Todd, you are such a shark trying to tell people you are charging me pennies for work but without telling the whole story.

    After the split second box was removed, John Reed flew out and installed the AEM unit and John Reeds plug and play harness. We threw in a new crank sensor as the new AEM Units sometimes need (AT NO CHARGE) and we were off for tuning. John finished all the tuning and the car made 790 at the wheels on 7lbs and 91oct, ran great and we thought we were done. John was just cleaning up a few idle revs when we lost oil pressure. He shut the car down immediately and we started checking everything. After all tests were done and we couldnt blame a sensor or short or bad signal. We pulled the car off the dyno and put it on the lift. Pulled the oil pan to see large chunks of metal in the pan and oil pan pickup.

    Yep, all under Todd's watchful eye.

    After we took the motor apart we saw a completely shattered oil pump gear, which is mechanically gear driven in the timing cover. A true mechanical failure. Maybe the 8000 miles put on the car from improper machine work done on a stroker motorare what caused this. Who knows, BUT surely not something that was caused by tuning. Besides the car only running 6 degrees of timing. Yes 6 degrees. The car didn't want to make power above 5500 rpm so we didn't see a need to push the motor.

    I advised jeff of everything, and we removed the motor and tore it down for inspection. All the pistons seemed good, but we felt the obvious should be replaced, everything in the oiling system due to metal contamination. Regardless, we measured every aspect of the engine to help decide what caused the problem rather than just fixing the apparent problem and putting pieces back together. After everything was gone through, heads, new bearing, new rings file fit etc. We put the car back together. and also, I spent late nights and long weekends to help get the car back to him on his time deadlines.

    You are smoking crack. What time deadlines. You continually had excuses and reasons of why I couldn't get the car.

    I can't make the engine builder move any faster. Sometimes when you buy something that has a problem, it's wise to take more time, see what the root cause was, and then proceed. all. So Jeff could only say (TODD, HOW LONG IS THIS LITTLE OIL PRESSURE PROBLEM GOING TO BE, WHY COULDN'T IT JUST BE FIXED) I don't need to respond to this on the boards as i'm sure many of you can answer this yourself.

    Todd, hardly. It was weeks without updates. This process took 2 months.


    AFTER the motor was back in the car. which was about 2 months total. 2 weeks on ordering the AEM and having John Reed fly out and tune. about 1 and a half months having the motor pulled, gone through and reinstalled. I flew out John Reed again as the motor was fresh and the tune needed checking.

    That was because I paid to replace new things like a new timing chain that had less play in it and different rings which would change the compression. So yes, a tune was a must and Todd doesn't know how to Tune. He charged me for his Tuner to come out again. I paid airfare and tune.

    He originally had 40 thousands ring end gap. A little excessive. We put it back within spec, nonetheless I only wanted to give the car back perfect, as all that come to my shop know how we work. So I fly out John, retune and then Jeff comes and picks the car up.

    He states the power was impressive but he cant enjoy the car with the surging he is experiencing. He also stated that after driving it it started dying on him at stoplights, but wouldn't continue doing this. It was intermittant. He said he still had a fuel smell in his garage. He said when it the car was hot it didn't want to start up easy. (This can happen when the turbo's heat up a starter, but I offered to add some started heat shielding at NO CHARGE

    Yes, because the car didn't have a problem doing this before as you well know.

    , just to help cure what may be a problem.

    I tell him to wait for the parts to get here and then bring the car so the car isn't just sitting. He decides to have it flatbedded up early and I say great, we will start looking at it.

    They did not look at it right away. It took a few days.

    He says "drive the **** out of the car Todd, make sure it's perfect".

    Your right - I did say drive the hell out of it. I didn't want anymore issues.

    I get the car and go around the block, it starts dying on me so I turn around and head back to the shop. I hook up the laptop and cannot get it to repeat itself. He asks me to drive the car home and check everything, fuel smell in my garage, driveability etc. I do, I even fly out John Reed AGAIN AT NO CHARGE

    Thanks - I already paid for his services twice. You are so sincere.

    to have him assure the tune is as perfect as it can get. John stays at my house as his schedule was busy and we drive and fine tune all NIGHT. Get up early in the AM to assure cold starts, and cold driveability. We put over 250 miles on the car without one hickup, The car drove as smooth as a stocker.

    You did not drive it with John Reed. You told me you drove it yourself and never once said you drove it with John Reed. I still question how you drove it without the car stalling as it did for me when I got the car and Dan at DC when he got the car.

    The fuel smell seemed

    Seemed - this is a key word. Everything is seemed. Remember the turbo leak he seemed to think was the problem. It wasn't the case nor was his diagnosis the fix either time with the fuel smell. Dan at DC finally fixed it.

    to be coming from a permiated fuel line. So I pulled everything apart, and had a new teflon center braided line with new ends made, and installed this all AT NO CHARGE. I also pulled out the break in oil and added some fresh mobil 1 AT NO CHARGE,

    You replaced the oil because you said you did not like the viscocity and the oil pressure was too high. You were trying to protect the motor from blowing up again.

    and then installed a higher cranking amp battery as the old one needed a charge AT NO CHARGE

    Why would I want a white battery that can be seen from the rear of the car. If you do anything, do quality work. I would be happy to pay for it if the battery was actually to match the factory battery. It all comes down to what "seemed" like a nice gesture. Either do it right or don't do it at all.

    (and it was a white 1000cc interstate that he was later to tell me it was an eye sore, not thanks. But thats ok, I was doing my best to fix even more problems that existed on the car that I DID NOT CREATE. So in the 1 week of driving his car, putting it in my garage to check for fuel smell in a more confined space vs. the shop, and having John spend countless hours of extra fine tuning, I drive the car down to Jeff late one night. I drove the car because he asked me to drive it and assure there were no issues.

    He drove the car because he did not want to flat bed it to me.

    The car drove flawless, and only then I delivered the car. He called me the next morning to say he drove it to work, he thinks the fuel smell was fixed, driveability seemed 99% fixed, and thanks.

    No you called me this time and I did not say Thanks. I said that the first time I picked up the car after two months. Not this go round with you. I should have heard "thanks for being such a sport" from you. I said I would call you later once I had a chance to drive the car and check the fuel smell.


    He calls me later in the day to say he is stuck on the side of the road and his car keeps dying. I advised if it's doing it all the time now it will be easy to find and fix, that unfortunately it never died on me in the 250 miles I put on it with John Reed and delivering the car to him.

    Again, you did not do 250 with John Reed. If you did why didn't you tell me this. Its a small point but if you look at the big picture there are a lot of small errors in what he is saying.

    I even told him when I delivered the car that I couldn't get it to die at a light. I advised of the sensors we changed and the retune and stated I couldn't say 100% that I knew what was causing it to die because it just wouldn't act up again. Maybe it was fixed, maybe not, BUT we cant fix an intermittant problem if it doesnt act up while in our posession, period.

    A&C could not fix the problem, period. It was an issue with the AEM install he did.


    Jeff calls me on sunday, and I answer his call as I do all my customers at all times, and stated that he wants me bring all necessary tools to his house and fix the car there. I said I don't even know what the problem is, and besides the fact that it's not even safe to do that, all my diagnostic equipment and tools are at my shop. I apologized and advised that this wasn't an option. He then says to pick up the car on Monday, do whatever I need to do, work all night whatever, and deliver his car back to him on the following Tuesday. At this time we were moving to a new location for the shop. Remember I havent even gotten the glory of hooking up diagnostics while the problem was showing itself. I dont even know what the problem is yet. He states that he doesn't care and if I cant do it in the time frame and dates that he specified, than he will go to another shop.

    I told him that I wanted to fix the car as I have NEVER given less than 100% to make any of my customers satisfied. I just cant do it in one day. He then states that he will take the car to Dan Cragin DC Performance.

    I called him upset as you can imagine at this point. I said I need the car looked at right away because this is ridiculous. He said I cannot guarantee anything. I said if you cannot give me a time line to get it back I have to bring it elsewhere. So I did.

    So he is charged for a diagnosis, a new AEM unit, some additional work etc. He calls me and states that I sold him a defective AEM unit and installed it incorrectly and wants me to pay the invoice at DC Performance. I advised that I would send the AEM in for testing and he said that was rediculous!

    Dan Cragin said it appears the AEM unit may be faulty or missing an upgrade but wouldn't know unless he sends it in. I said why am I sending in a new unit when it should work. I said if he suspects it to be a bad unit get a new one and I will send it back to A&C and get my money back. So I did and I never got my money back. Not only did Dan put a new one in, he fixed the issue with the grounding wire that was missing and the 02 simms that caused the car to stall. This was not caught by A&C both the first and second time they had the car.

    Well, he sent me the AEM I had sold him, I overnighted it to AEM directly. After all their testing, they tell me that the AEM is fully up to date and has NO faults. ITS PERFECT. It appears that when Jeff bought this car it had o2 simulators on it which apparently where tied up in the wiring harness. These can pose a problem sometimes as they confuse the AEM signals. Jeff was nice enough to send them to us with the AEM and we shipped it all to AEM' facility.

    AEM said his whole problem was the o2 simulators. I then even called Dan Cragin at DC Performance. Dan is a great guy and we've been working together for years now. Dan even stated that he wanted to send in the AEM unit for testing but JEFF REFUSED and wanted to purchase another one.

    See statement above.

    I advised Dan of AEM's findings, he stated again that he wanted to send it in to get checked but Jeff DIDNT WANT TO DO THIS.

    Analogy - If I buy an XBox from Best Buy and bring it home and it doesn't work, Best buy doesn't say let me send it in because it is brand new. They give you a new one. I was not interested in sending in a "New" product that never worked. I wanted to return it if Dan thought this was a possible contributing factor. Dan Cragin can verify this if he chooses to partake.

    This would have showed that he DID NOT need another AEM and that his fix would have been a very cheap one, to just remove the o2 sensor simulators!!!

    And add the grounding wire that neither was ever caught by A&C. The job was over there head.


    Dan Cragin sold Jeff a new AEM because Jeff wanted one. This is not my fault, or Dan Cragins fault, but rather the actions of an impatient person not wanting to wait to find an answer, Jeff Gaines.

    No it is your incompetence Todd. Its not my fault and its not Dan's fault.

    I have spoken with Jeff, at all hours of every day, work late hours and given him parts and services that I never charged him for. I offered to fix the car but just couldnt commit to a ONE DAY WINDOW.

    It was not a one day window. I got no answer in terms of a commitment from you. Is that the way to treat a customer?

    Jeff, your actions are the sole reason you incurred a $5000 bill at DC Performance.

    And for the record, Jeff stated that he was unhappy with the "SUPPOSEDLY" faulty AEM I sold him. I sold him an AEM modified for turbo applications at $2900, a John reed custom built plug n play harness for $1500.00. Including taxes, I charged him $4741.00 for these parts. EVEN THOUGH HIS WHOLE PROBLEM WAS THE O2 SENSOR SIMS AND NOT THE AEM (GIVEN I SENT A COPY OF AEM'S FINDINGS TO JEFF).

    I OFFERED TO GIVE HIM BACK $4741 AND HE JUST GIVE ME THE PARTS BACK THAT i SOLD HIM!!!. He refused and said he wanted the whole amount of DC Performance's invoice $5140.

    Todd - I challenge you to repay me the $4741 to get on with life. You have my AEM unit. I cannot give you the harness because without it my car won't run. I told you if you want that back deduct the cost of the repairs that Dan Cragin charged me to fix the wiring harness and o2 sensors and retuning the car. Fair is fair. You are being unreasonable.

    I offered this as a courtesy! I sold him new parts and he and only he chose to purchase another new AEM. Jeff still has the plug-n-play harness in his car and didnt even send me a complete AEM setup, ONLY an AEM box, no connectors, harnesses, wideband, nothing.

    I told you I would send you the wiring that I had in my box. I don't remember a wide band.

    Did I screw him over?? Let the members be the judge. There's alot of people on this board that saw your car in my shop and know what took place AND i HOPE THEY ALL POST HERE. I feel bad somebody like you bought a highly modified Viper, you belonged in a stock viper with a warranty.

    Well, your right. They probably said what a beautiful car. It was. It is. The person who gets it now from Ringgold Dodge in Georgia will be very lucky. Its a no excuses car. You are right, at this point given what i have gone through I do belong in a stock 2009 Viper. I love it.

    Obviously you knew this as you traded the car in almost immediately to Ringgold motors for a new viper. Some people shouldnt own modified Vipers and some people just cannot be made happy. Jeff Gaines is one of them.

    That is what an experience can do for you. My wife urged me to get something that had a factory warranty so I don't have to deal with shops like this again.

    I've spend countless hours emailing back and forth with you Jeff and phone calls as well. This will be my last long email or contact with you.

    The ball is in your court. I challenge you to step up and repay me what I am owed.

    Get you facts straight and make sure the people you think are going to back your claims, indeed are. You may even want to contact Dan at DC again and he can tell you that he wanted to send in the AEM just for testing to assure it was not the problem (as any good shop would) but you opted to buy another unit.

    There are many that do back my claims and those who haven't gotten screwed from you certainly back yours. It doesn't take but a few to ruin a reputation. You have cost me so much fun and money and taken a great experience and shred it to pieces for me.

    I offer no BS no stories, reputable work with too many 1000HP vipers out there to mention.

    I highly doubt the "too many" statement.


    I was going to try and sell your first AEM for you but will now be sending it to you next week, or you can come by and pick it up at our shop.

    Absolutely not - why would I have you sell an AEM for me. that is assenine. You should credit me the cost for it. That is doing $20,000 worth of work and taking care of customers and doing the right thing.


    For the record, I would never work on another car that you owned ever again. And im sure after reading this post, many others wouldn't either. After all the emails you've sent, you've been less than a pleasure to deal with.

    Don't worry Todd - You won't.

    If any board members had any questions regarding this car or this experience, you can call over and chat with me about it. Judge for yourself.

    Call Mike Robbins at Ringgold and see what a 10 this car is. He has it up on his site now from the trade in. Ask him how upfront and forthright I have been to do a deal with. That is the only way I DO BUSINESS.

    Todd
    A&C Performance
    951 696 0500

    As far as Jeff Gaines, from Gaines Investment is concerned, I will be sending your AEM back to you next week. and Ill even pay for the shipping.[/QUOTE]
     
  9. viperfuntime

    viperfuntime Enthusiast

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    What the hell are you talking about dude? Washing a car for a $20,000 job is great service? I get that for free with an oil change. And by the way, he washed it once for the record. He had the car twice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2009
  10. GoCanes1

    GoCanes1 Viper Owner

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    Dude, like I said, you are not deserving to be a Viper owner. I hear Hyundai has some great deals now and they offer a 10 year warranty. Sounds like that would be the best route for you.
     
  11. IEATVETS

    IEATVETS Enthusiast

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    This will go round and round and a solution will never come, it never does in cases like this. I have an observation though. If you can afford to buy a TT Viper and spend tens of thousands of dollars on it, why can't you afford to have it inspected and hop on an airplane to personally look over the car? And please, DO NOT say that you were too busy. Some of you are just to trusting I guess but if I am dropping that kind of coin on anything, I am damn well going to go look at it before doing anything!
    Good luck proving that A/C blew up your motor, remember it is highly modified car.
     
  12. mbccenter

    mbccenter Viper Owner

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    Your responce to Todd just proves how wrong you are in this case. You should have never purchased a used Twin Turbo Viper period. It is very clear that you know nothing about working on Vipers. Now you are making your problems into A&C by posting on an open forum trying to hurt them.

    Anyone who knows anything about modding Vipers will NEVER agree with you but keep on posting because the more you do the worse your case looks.
     
  13. GTS-R 001

    GTS-R 001 Enthusiast

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    I had a similar problem with an AEM unit that I purchased from Dan at DC performance, the car started stalling until it would hardly run at all. Dan had the car flat bedded 900 miles back to his shop and sent the unit in for the upgrade that all the AEM units needed at the time as there was a defective lot of them of something like that.

    Great work Dan,

    I have heard great things about Todd at AC performance as well.

    High performance cars need a lot of patience and they usually spend more time in the shop than they do on the road ( just like race cars, because.....that is pretty much what you are building when you TT or supercharge a car)
     
  14. Paul Hawker

    Paul Hawker Viper Owner

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    Gentlemen.

    I can see how this turn of events could have happened.

    Purchasing a sight unseen twin turbo is a leap of faith. Sometimes it works out fantastic and sometimes not so well.

    A&C has a fantastic reputation in SoCal. Most of the comments are overwhelmingly favorable.

    Intermittant problems are difficult to diagnose in a stock car, and even more difficult in a heavily modified one with miles and years on it.

    If something tied up in the wiring was causing the problem, it could easily be missed by most any mechanic.

    Todd has built many 1000hp engines. Their owners understand that they will be more tempermental than stock engines but they choose to go there with open eyes.

    These highly modified engines are more often than not back in the shop for tweeking or being blown up by enthusiastic owners. (part of the charm).

    Dan Cragin has a world wide reputation as one of the finest technical and diagnostic ViperTechs around. People around the world send him Vipers to be sorted out and built that they trust to no one else. He is a tremendous resource to the Viper Community, and I know that Todd and Dan consult with each other on a regular basis. You are not the only one that has gone to Dan to resolve the most difficult of problems.

    This in no way diminishes what A&C have done in their own shops. Sometimes you just need a fresh pair of eyes on a sticky problem.

    No need to beat this into the ground, or hash it out to death on this forum.

    You now have a fantastic, factory warranted (for the time being) new Viper. Hope you can resolve this professionally with your tuner. Hope to see you at future ViperClub events.
     
  15. sun diego

    sun diego Enthusiast

    Posts:
    765
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Paxtons have a CARB (California Air Resources Board) number. Turbos do not. Was the car registered as a California car? If it was, it was illegally done. An owner who will cheat there might not be the most reliable source of unbiased comment. I'd like to see the court case when the first point is "I had this illegal car I kinked into California."

    How many people here have been busted for posting under two names here? Not many. This guy has. His character shines through.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  16. _Niz_

    _Niz_ Enthusiast

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    Victorville, CA
    I find it soo funny that he says Todd is NOT detail oriented. I have never met a more detail oriented person! A true perfectionist...
     
  17. dave6666

    dave6666 Enthusiast

    Posts:
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    Location:
    Explaining Viper things to you
    Todd... This dispute is no business of mine so I'm not even going to get involved, but I will say that the post by you laying out the events as you saw them should be a model for others.

    Very little emotion, stayed away from character assassination, and an emphasis on the facts as you saw them.

    Nice job.
     
  18. bmw2nv2000

    bmw2nv2000 Viper Owner

    Age:
    40
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    Location:
    Adamsville, TN
    I am not choosing sides here but from experience I don't really think it is right for customer to pay for a miss diagnosis(about the turbo being replaced but not fixing the problem). If any shop wrongfully diagnoses a problem they should eat the consequences, Ive been down this road before with BMW so i am just speaking from my experiences and don't know every little aspect in this particular case, so not making any judgments and ACPerformance still sounds like a really knowledgeable company. Best of luck to all:2tu:
     
  19. GoCanes1

    GoCanes1 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    147
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I understand, the problem is it was not a misdiagnosis, it is just a bad turbo setup. A&C was told by the previous shop that 8 out of 10 (or something like that) turbos in their set-up will leak. That is not right or good. I think that Todd and A&C handled this as best as they could in trying to fix another shops work on a car that was driven for thousands of miles by a previous owner with who knows how many issues for how long. I have gone to many dealers with an engine issue and they go down the line replacing parts where they think it is one part, then replace it find out it is the next part then replace that and so on. It is part of owning a highly modified exotic car, but well worth it ;).
     
  20. SingleMalt

    SingleMalt Enthusiast

    Posts:
    552
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    May 15, 2002
    Well, in every group there is always ONE, isn't there.

    I was at the shop when the turbo fitment was being evaluated. If the rest of the TT setup was given equal attention by the builder, you car issues would have persisted in the same manner that they did, only under other circumstances; either at another shop or while you were driving the vehicle on the road. You happened to take your car to the one guy that really wanted to make sure you were happy with YOUR purchase, and, in the end, he was publicly lambasted by none other than yourself, Mr. Two-Name.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2009
  21. Dan Cragin

    Dan Cragin Enthusiast

    Posts:
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    Location:
    LA, CA
    I think the important thing that may come out of this is that we as business owners need to work together to resolve customer issues. Sometimes things go wrong and people get frustrated. The biggest concern should be to correct the problem vehicle.

    Todd and Mike at A&C have always worked well with us at DC and have worked on vehicles we have had issues with as well.

    It is a shame that Jeff had to go through the problems that many encounter with highly modified cars, but the end result was a well sorted vehicle. This was done through the efforts of both our companies.
     
  22. aries

    aries Viper Owner

    Posts:
    530
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Location:
    Laurel, MD
    As some of you know, or don't know, I bought a supercharged 2006 SRT10 Coupe that had only 3k miles on it from an owner in FL. I paid Doug Levin to look the car over and he gave it the ok. Now mind you he couldn't tear the car down to the crank or anything. Now I drove to car for two months and promptly blew it up due to a "fuel starvation" problem of some sort. Now you can say this or that about who's to blame for it blowing up, ART who did the "fuel system upgrade", woodhouse who installed it, the previos owner, or me for driving it hard. the bottom line is I knew what I was getting into buying a modified Viper, and the realization that I may break it due to it being modified came true. Do I like it, of course not, but it is what it is, either that or go buy a stock Viper.
     
  23. TAXIMAN1

    TAXIMAN1 Viper Owner

    Posts:
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    Location:
    Jupiter, FL
    Having owned many modified cars. I agree with Todd's comment... Some people should NOT own modified cars. They are constant maint.,updating,upgrading,breaking down,etc, no matter what anyone tells you..

    And quite frankly, If I owned a shop that worked on modified cars. I would not get involved with previous work done by others. It set's the stage for things like this to happen...
     
  24. viperbilliam

    viperbilliam Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,061
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    May 17, 2005
    Location:
    Richland, WA
    Some of you are forgetting tuners like these can't stay in business if the buyer beware is taken too literally for modded cars. It is risky and has to be taken by the car owner except for mistakes clearly caused by the shop. I have trouble with the claim of 9000 trouble-free miles; how do you know if you didn't drive them? It was just a sales claim - maybe the seller just wanted to be rid of it! An intermittent problem reared its ugly head and the timing unfortunate. It is an expensive game. I know first hand - it works great sometimes and sometimes it doesn't work. A lot of time it works but there are little unanticipated side issues that have to be lived with; otherwise sell it! Modding can be a lot of fun or satisfying but some pain has to be endured sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009
  25. ACPERFORMANCE

    ACPERFORMANCE Viper Owner

    Posts:
    334
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Location:
    Murrieta CA
    MAYBE we should start counting the poeople who went to A&C Perfomance and had an excellent experience. If you have had any dealings with A&C Performance please post up a note.

    Todd
    A&C Performance
    41665 Eastman Dr STE 20
    Murrieta, CA 92562
    951-696-0500
     
  26. Chrissss

    Chrissss Viper Owner

    Posts:
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    Location:
    Cincinnati
    I hope spelling doesn't count!
     
  27. LaViper

    LaViper Viper Owner

    Posts:
    507
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    Ponchatoula, La
    Hello Everyone.Very interesting info here. Let me first say I purchased this car 2 months ago, knew they had some work done on the car from the receits that came with the car. I've put over 3,000 miles on it & it couldn't run any better. Idles perfect (even with ac on),never stalled once, ran the car thru the gears quite a few times & the only problem is how to stop it from spinning the tires @ 100 mph.(Still has the run craps on it).Changed all fluids & filters & tried to find anything wrong with it before I travel far & besides only finding a few loose bolts & wiring harnesses not properly supported, everything looks perfect.I'm an ex mechanic who's built many Street Rods,race cars & owned a 99 ACR (sold before Hurricane Katrina) The price I paid for the car I feel I STOLE IT
     
  28. Fast Viper Dan

    Fast Viper Dan Enthusiast

    Posts:
    452
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    Aug 7, 2001
    Location:
    Saratoga, CA, USA
    I love my stock Viper.
     
  29. ACPERFORMANCE

    ACPERFORMANCE Viper Owner

    Posts:
    334
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Location:
    Murrieta CA
    Just wanted to throw a quick post on here to finally clear all this up.

    On the day of court, and know that in 4 years we have only had one customer like this, A&C performance was there with all the factual paperwork.

    AEM testing, documentation, emails from Jeff. And like we suspected.

    Jeff Gaines didn't show up. Case closed.

    Todd
     
  30. eucharistos

    eucharistos Viper Owner

    Posts:
    6,845
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    Feb 15, 2008
    Location:
    Houston
    wow :omg:

    good day for y'all

    congrats
     

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