A couple more questions on '01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Viperguynick

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Posts
330
Reaction score
0
Location
Auburn, ME
A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Hey all,

I had posted a few days ago about some problems a buddy of mine is having with his '01 GTS in regards to a stripped spark-plug hole and running rich. He got the plug taken care of and we checked the check engine light codes with his OBDII scanner today. He had twelve stored codes for numerous misfires on Cyl 10 which had the stripped plug, a MAP voltage out of range, a couple high voltages on driver & pass O2 sensors (pre-cat) and two codes for bank 1 too rich and bank 2 too rich.

After clearing all the codes with the scan tool, he went for a quick drive and the only two codes that keep coming back are the:
P0172: Bank 1 too Rich
P0175: Bank 2 too Rich

We have checked ALL the harnesses, plug wires, sensors and anything else we can think of that might cause this problem, to no avail. Before this started happening though, he did get an Apexi AFS-II installed at a dyno shop who after installing the controller said they could not tune the car due to it running so rich. So the AFS-II is installed but just "zero'd out" not calibrated to the car.

At this point ANY amount of throttle input that would classify as more than what my grandmother would give it results in bucking, lurching, and overall cutting out of ANY power. This has actually caused some dangerous situations when pulling out into traffic. The car is idling between 760 RPM and 790 RPM, so that seems good. It's just when trying to get the car to move, or revving the engine while sitting still that the car seems to choke itself out.

Any help guys???

Thanks,

:usa: Nick :usa:
 

KenH

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 7, 2001
Posts
1,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, OR, USA
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Isn't the Apexi unit an A/F tuning module? If so, I don't understand why they would leave it zero'd out instead of using it to lean out the A/F mixture. They need to hook up a ODBII scanner/software and monitor the long-term fuel adaptives and use the Apexi unit to bring the adaptives closer to zero. That will take care of the rich bank error codes.
 
OP
OP
V

Viperguynick

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Posts
330
Reaction score
0
Location
Auburn, ME
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Ken, That is exactly what I was thinking. But appearently the car was running too rich even for that. I have been reading the manual for the S-AFS II on Apexi's website and while I do think that I could tune it properly while in the pass. seat with him driving, I really don't want to touch it and cause any damage to the car by leaning it out too much or something along those lines and void any warranty. The only real issue is that the guys son is in the Marines and will be heading back to VA. on Monday and then to IRAQ in Sept. So we wanted to get the car running right for him before he leaves and the earliest the dyno shop can get the car in is the 27th, which is completely understandable as I am sure they are BUSY this time of year. That is why I wish I had the confidence to tune it myself. Anyone ever done that before? Or have any tips?

:usa: Nick :usa:
 

MoparMan

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Posts
2,054
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

How about pulling the S-AFS II out of the system, clearing the two "rich" codes and driving the car. If the codes don't return, you know the problem is the S-AFS-II, despite it being "zeroed out" if they do, then you need to keep looking.
 

Jeff Torrey

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Posts
2,020
Reaction score
3
Location
Plaistow, NH USA
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

What about the map sensor? That would cause the car to run "wrong" or rich...seeing as it is both sides then maybe it's gone bad.

I would call Chuck Tator 914 763-3136
 
OP
OP
V

Viperguynick

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Posts
330
Reaction score
0
Location
Auburn, ME
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Yeah I was thinking about pulling the AFS out of the equation but I was not sure if that would screw anything else up... I suppose it can always be plugged back in.

Yeah, that MAP sensor voltage OOR code made me think about that also, but he told me that it was because he ran it with the map sensor unplugged by mistake earlier that day, and after he plugged it in, it went away.

Maybe I will give chuck a quick call tomorrow, I always hate to take up someones time for free though... Chuck is Da Man!


Thanks all.

:usa: Nick :usa:
 
OP
OP
V

Viperguynick

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Posts
330
Reaction score
0
Location
Auburn, ME
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Also, I never thought of this but it has been staring me in the face the whole time. We also did a Cat delete on the car, but are still running the stock O2 sensors in all 4 locations. Could this be causing the rich condition?

:usa: Nick :usa:
 

monnieh

Viper Owner
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Posts
849
Reaction score
0
Location
Colleyville TEXAS
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Also, I never thought of this but it has been staring me in the face the whole time. We also did a Cat delete on the car, but are still running the stock O2 sensors in all 4 locations. Could this be causing the rich condition?

:usa: Nick :usa:

YES! buy some sims or get the Mopar ECU.
 

davem

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2002
Posts
144
Reaction score
0
Location
Scarborough, ME USA
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

Nick,
An 01 will def. throw a too rich CEL when the cats are removed. You need to install the simms. These are just little electronic devices or "simulators" that provide the 15-30HZ 1 volt signal that normally comes from the secondary O2 sensors in closed loop mode, which the secondary O2 sensors won't provide without the cats.

The Apexi has nothing to do with the problem if it is zeroed - but it does intercept the map sensor output (works the exact same way as a VEC1).

Is the Apexi displaying load properly when you rev the car up? This is a direct reading from the MAP sensor. If not there could be a faulty MAP sensor- or the little vacuum hose cam off (unlikely). The Apexi could cause the MAP sensor voltage too high code if you adjust the settings too much in the + direction - was he fiddling with the settings or configuration? I posted the base settings for the Apexi on this forum, do a search and you can put in the base settings I provided, it won't hurt anything and you will pick up 14whp.

Clear up the CEL first. Give me a call if you need help and I can talk you through some debug.

good luck,
-Dave.
 

Eric H

Viper Owner
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Posts
533
Reaction score
0
Location
Raleigh, NC
Re: A couple more questions on \'01 GTS (running rich) with more info...

For the record its an S-AFC II..... I had one in my GTS, sounds like a botches install.

I dialed mine back 9-15% across the board and the car ran great!
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
153,219
Posts
1,682,079
Members
17,715
Latest member
SKY1960
Top