Aerodynamic design question - front fascia

[2000_Black_RT10]

Just a side note, that Chevy has mentioned that their new Z1 is having a problem with lift near top speed. While Viper ACR produces massive downforce, Chevy is getting light in the front.

That's interesting Paul. C5s didn't have a grille opening.. but obviously they are contending with cooling for whatever reasons (rad efficiency, packaging, etc..) with the C6s since adding an fascia opening, experiencing effects at the higher ZR1 speeds. It's usually the case, notice the larger side exit ducts.. The Veyron has a small grille, and several rads placed elsewhere.. obviously costs more.. so there's a moral of the story..

The new Viper ACR is great, good job on that car, definitely will smoke the competition regarding downforce. Nice to have a balanced downforce, just a big wing out back can make the front light.

 

[RTTTTed]

Well Ted, as I said at the beginning, one of the reasons I might want to remove it is to get rid of sacrificial grinding. The other reason, I am contemplating building a splitter that could possibly replace the entire underside on the fascia from the frame forward. Just a thought, and wanted some opinions on the purpose of the lip we now call the chin spoiler.

And on the second bit of your post I left above, I have to pull a Texas size ***?

Doesn't asking questions first and hacking parts second, qualify as an attempt to make my car better? And not worse?

Sorry, I thought the question was just on removing the chin spoiler and didn't realize you were planning on adding something.

Ted

 

[dave6666]

Sorry, I thought the question was just on removing the chin spoiler and didn't realize you were planning on adding something.

Ted

The question was just on removing the chin spoiler, with an alternate means of reinforcement.

Still doesn't mean I'm intentionally going to ruin the car as you suggested could happen.

 

[RoadiJeff]

I was considering removing the lip on my front fascia but after reading through this thread I've decided to leave it. Even if I never drive it at 175 mph some future owner might want it there for that reason.

The reason I was considering removing the lip is because it scrapes the curb when entering the driveway. Approaching it at a 45-degree angle does not solve the problem.

The only way I can get it to not scrape is to back into the driveway at a 45-degree angle. That's not such a problem but I'm considering adding a lift one of these days and backing it into the garage onto a lift doesn't sound like fun.

I read several messages where owners have lowered the stock height even more. I can't imagine doing this and being able to drive it on the road.

Is everyone's stock height this low?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

It wears off until it reaches an equilibrium...

Interesting to compare this Gen 1 to Dave6666 Gen 2 image at the beginning of this post. Gen 1 lip is forward, Gen 2 lip rearward. I added a small lip at the back end of the cutout. It also got worn down.

 

[dave6666]

DUDE! Did you just run over that guy???

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

No, because of the direction of the sunlight I laid in front to block the glare.

Or, maybe that's what that funny noise was from...

 

[GTSRboy2000]

Man that green viper looks beat, its scratched to hell and has rusted bolts and everything

 

[dave6666]

Man that green viper looks beat, its scratched to hell and has rusted bolts and everything

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one talks to Tom that way. Not even Chuck Norris. No one.

 

[ViperTony]

Man that green viper looks beat, its scratched to hell and has rusted bolts and everything

It's amazing isn't it? Tom actually drives his Viper. Go figure.

 

[Ricksnake1]

Tom, please tell us about the Duster that you drove to 130 mph!!!! I gots to know

Thanks
Rick

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

You mean "driven" to hell and back. Starting a second visit soon. You also must have mean "beats Gen 2 and Gen 3 cars in AX events." Snarl, snarl. And lastly, I see you understand that it has "everything" I want and I expect to greatly surpass the 90,000 miles on it now. Only thing I can't get is Michelin to make snow tires for it. At least I can still get a viper control module, right Dave?

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Tom, please tell us about the Duster that you drove to 130 mph!!!! I gots to know

Thanks
Rick

First car was a 1970 Duster, 340in^3, 750 Thermoquad, 833 four speed with the '60's Barracuda lower gears (3.09 first) and '70's Feather Duster aluminum case. At various times had a 3.55, 3.73, or 4.30 rear. Usual headers, 0.509 lift Mopar cam driven by roller chain, 2.02 ported heads. I had custom and home made sway bars on it because finding and swapping torsion bars and leaf springs was too much effort. Seemed fast at the time, but poor aero made it feel "bumpy" over 120. The simple Direct Connection air dam fixed that surprising well, but I still didn't try that too often. It goes to show how much cars have changed.

Like many Dusters, the frame rusted at the torsion bar anchors and the upper control arm mounts, but I saved the drivetrain and other parts to build a kit Cobra. The remains went to Duster heaven. When the Cobra became too routine, sold it for the Viper.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Just measured. 3" to the ground. Eibach lowered. GTS Bruce

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

You won't have to back on to your lift, a GTS goes up on a lift just fine frontwards.
There's at least two really smart engineers on this thread, Tom and Dave, And I love all you guys but it just never ceases to amaze me that a bunch of guys on the internet actually think they are smarter than a multi billion dollar company with a wind tunnel that was dominating the class this car ran in at major events at the time.
I'm just saying...Oh wait, it won overall a couple times.
Hey, you should ask Herb Helbig, I bet you would get a straight answer from him.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

There's at least two really smart engineers on this thread, Tom and Dave, And I love all you guys but it just never ceases to amaze me that a bunch of guys on the internet actually think they are smarter than a multi billion dollar company with a wind tunnel that was dominating the class this car ran in at major events at the time.

And they have to make compromises, like those cheesy teeny ugly little brakes in the back of the Gen 1-2 cars.... to which I guess I can thank them.

But it is the best car I'll ever have.

 

[dave6666]

Lee... We run our calculators outside the balance known as corporate-government-ecofriendly control. Engineers with no cuffs call it reality.

What do you think engineer's gone wild concept cars are?!?

Just give me, Tom, and a few others a budget...

Nonetheless, the Viper fits a profile, and we continue to love it, and debate it.

 

[RoadiJeff]

You won't have to back on to your lift, a GTS goes up on a lift just fine frontwards.

Well, yeah, but I have to back it up the driveway or it scrapes on the curb, even when approaching at an angle. Maybe I can do one of those Dukes of Hazzard spin around things.

So, anyone's stock height on a Gen II much higher than the 3 1/4 inches on mine?

 

[LiquoRT/10]

When I measured mine it was 4.5 inches. I thought stock out of the factory is 5 inches.
Maby there is a little settling over time going on.

 

[plumcrazy]

Im planning on repainting my front fascia this winter and was wondering if anyone has any new info on this topic.

there is another thread here about it as well.
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/611659-anyone-trimmed-lower-lip-fascia.html

I scrape pretty bad going into my very steep driveway. i have some hairline cracks on the front cause of it. there is a lot of scraping on this bottom lip. I do drive at high speeds allegedly in mexico but dont think its gonna effect anything much but wanted to try and open the discussion again if anyone has info.

i have no possible way to re-work the driveway without blasting rock, so that aint happening.....

does anyone have pics of the lower lip being trimmed ?


.

 

[dave6666]

I did trim mine to even it up when I did my splitter. Probably added the equivalent down force with the splitter as I removed by trimming the chin spoiler.

 

[sirhc76]

Plum

I am thinking about this as well for the same reason and I just added lowering caps, yet to back out of the driveway. My other thought was some sort of CF cap that could be mounted over the lip. I was about to build a reverse mold and try bagging some CF, figured it would be fun. My only concern with trimming is the very edges of the lip that are actually rounded with the fascia.

 

[GTS Bruce]

I have felt the nose getting light. Grail keeper says the rear generates some down force and the nose generates 25lbs of lift. I have added the gt-2 splitter and canards painted car color. I have no wind tunnel but the car feels better. Also there is a lot of cockpit wind buffeting with the windows down. This has been almost eliminated by the gt-2 splitter and canards. GTS Bruce