Another loose Crank bolt...kind of

[emaw]

I noticed the other evening that the crank pulley was loose....only noticed after the serpentine belt fell off pulling into the garage.

So I started doing the research and found numerous threads about it on the forum. I have called Tator and got the balancer, crank seal ordered, as well as the Roe Pin Kit from Roe.

Here is my problem.....I started the tear down last night to get to the bolt. The crank bolt has come out approx 1/2 in by my estimate, but......I can't get it to break loose to get it the rest of the way out?????

I figured since it has started to work itself out, that I wouldn't have much of a problem getting it the rest of the way.

Has anyone had this situation before, or could give me some advice on what to try???

 

[Fatboy 18]

That bolt is normally in there tight! (250ft lbs) It is also normally loctited in. How much pressure are you using to try to undo the bolt?
You could use a bit of heat on the bolt to try to undo it, it will free up the loctite. But be careful.

I would also replace the bolt and check the threads on the crankshaft.

 

[speedracervr4]

That does not sound good, hopefully the threads on the crack are not toast. I take it the washer under the heads spins freely? I would call Chuck back and see what he says...either way it has to be removed. I personally would hit it with an impact gun and hope the threads on the crank are not damaged.

 

[emaw]

Just spoke to Chuck again, and he said to get some oil on it and try to work it back in, then work it back out. He said if the threads are damages, it is most likely damages on the bolt. So I am going to say a little prayer that is the case.

To answer your questions - I was just using a break over bar w/out a cheater, so maybe I wasn't getting enough leverage

The washer on the bolt does spin freely.

Very frustrating.

 

[mad prof]

Emaw, have you removed the crank bolt before? if not, chances that your crank threads are shot are diminishing. Good thing nothing was damaged.

Mine was a total pain to remove. Thread locker bunged the remaining threads preventing the last few spins of the nut. Paitience, back and forth movement and a good head gun (do not even think using flame) did the trick. I used a new nut and Loctite threadlock to tighten it to specs.

Good luck

 

[emaw]

To my knowledge it has never been removed, the previous owner didn't mention anything of it, and was a very detailed oriented guy. I may need to pick up a heat gun and give that a try.



Do these loose balancer's cause damage to the crank often?

 

[mad prof]

Emaw, could you put a mirror towards the crank pulley and inspect the condition of the threads? This is how I saw the bunged threads with thredlock on mine.

First, tighten back the nut all the way, then place the mirror and isnpect. Hope there is good news.

 

[speedracervr4]

First, tighten back the nut all the way, then place the mirror and isnpect. Hope there is good news.

He won't be able to see the threads if he tightens the bolt all the way in. It's a bolt not a nut.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Yea, Im not sure what Mad Prof is on about? Its a bloody big bolt, Not a nut!

You need a six sided socket to remove and replace it. 31MM

As for the Harmonic balancer, the original OEM ones can become worn and the rubber bond can break causing an imbalance. Roe sell a replacement harmonic balancer at a good price.

 

[speedracervr4]

1 1/4" also works.

+1 on replacing it with an aftermarket one.

 

[emaw]

Thanks for all the replies. I sprayed a generous amount of WD40 on it last night and tried as best I could to screw it back in slightly. So, tonight I will make another attempt at breaking it loose. If I can't get it broke loose, I am going to have to try to find someone in my area that can possibly help. I live in NE Kansas so finding an experienced Viper tech is next to impossible.

 

[MoparMap]

I'm in NE Kansas too, Woodhouse isn't too terribly far away, but I can understand not wanting to mess with getting your car all the way up there just for something like that. Gladstone Dodge is supposed to have some Viper techs. They have a new Viper or two out on the floor and just had one of their guys come back from the Viper school. Might be worth a call.

 

[Tail lights]

WD 40 is not oil, if I were you I would use brake clean to get all that crappy WD 40 out of there. WD 40 is not your friend. Use motor oil.

 

[daveg]

Emaw, what year is your Viper?

 

[Tagoo]

Are you SURE the damper bolt has come partially unscrewed from the crank? As fatboy said, the damper can separate causing movement in the damper. If you haven't gotten the bolt to move at all yet, it could be that the bolt is fine, but that it is just on REALLY tight. I had to use a breaker bar with a 4' cheater, with the car in 4th gear and have someone in the car standing on the brakes before I was able to get my crank bolt to move. I never could have gotten that bolt out just using a 24" breaker bar. Just make sure you are trying to solve the right problem.

 

[speedracervr4]

OP said the washer could move, that would confirm the bolt backed out.

 

[emaw]

Its a 97 GTS.

I did get the bolt out when I got home from work tonight, so that is a big positive. I think the WD40 did the trick. The last few rows of threads on the very end of the bolt I pulled out where questionable, so I am going to pick up a tap and clean up the threads before I go any further because the new bolt will thread about 1/3 of the way in then get hung up. If i put a ratchet on it, it will go it will some effort. I just have never gotten this far involved so I don't know exactly what the tolerance should be....IE - should I be able the hand tighten it most of the way??

I really appreciate all the advice along the way so far. I'm sure there will be more to come as my pin kit from Roe shows up. I am going to go ahead and replace the water pump while I am this far in as well.

 

[speedracervr4]

I would try a thread cleaner/chaser before using a tap, if they make one. A tap will remove some material while a cleaner/chaser will not.

 

[emaw]

I would try a thread cleaner/chaser before using a tap, if they make one. A tap will remove some material while a cleaner/chaser will not.

Good Call, I will try to track one down tomorrow.

Does anyone happen to know what the details on the threads are (Size and pitch)?


I was pretty much worthless today at the office because all I did was worry about this.

 

[speedracervr4]

I'm sure one of the vendors on here would be able to tell you. Dan at Viper Specialty maybe? If you find out please post it up so we know for future reference.

 

[speedracervr4]

According to the link it's 3/4-16x2.25.

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com...0309&ukey_driveLine=7781&ukey_trimLevel=18523

 

[Dan Cragin]

Boy this is tricky. I have been able to save most of the cranks that had this issue. But I have had a couple that I had to remove and repair the crankshaft. To be honest the best lubricant I have ever used for stuck bolts is kerosene and motor oil mixed together.

 

[emaw]

Boy this is tricky. I have been able to save most of the cranks that had this issue. But I have had a couple that I had to remove and repair the crankshaft. To be honest the best lubricant I have ever used for stuck bolts is kerosene and motor oil mixed together.

Dan, are you referring to the stuck bolt or the threads?

I was able to get the bolt out, but I think I am going to chase the threads to clean them up.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Great to hear you got the Bolt out Well done.

Any chance you could post a pic of the bolt threads and end of the crankshaft? Have you removed the Harmonic balancer yet?

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Doing one of these at the moment ( front timing chain seal gone) ans it was tight all the way out but no damage ...... Doing it up is another story....

 

[emaw]

Great to hear you got the Bolt out Well done.

Any chance you could post a pic of the bolt threads and end of the crankshaft? Have you removed the Harmonic balancer yet?

I'll try to get a good pic, I already tossed the bolt because I didn't want to see that POS any longer after such a challenge....but I will see if I can find it.

The balancer fell off when the bolt came out since it was so loose. The new one from Tator should be here next week.

 

[Dan Cragin]

I was referring to the bolt. if you chase the threads, use a new balancer, use red lock tight on the bolt and pin the crank, you should be fine.

 

[emaw]

I was referring to the bolt. if you chase the threads, use a new balancer, use red lock tight on the bolt and pin the crank, you should be fine.

Ok, good....That is my plan.

 

[Camfab]

Make sure you use a proper tap! Most commercial taps are designed to oversize the threads, you can effectively destroy your crank in the process of doing this. You should purchase a bottoming tap from a machine shop supply that meets the factory designed tolerances, otherwise you'll end up with a bolt that will always want to back out!

 

[Camfab]

Before you tap anything, I'd wait for the new bolt, lubricate it and run it into your crank. See how far the bolt will go in with your hand. Ensure that the crank has enough thread to accomodate the balancer at it's final torque position. Anotherwords, the bolt isn't bottoming out on the threads before the balancer is fully seated. I noticed that my tolerances were just sufficient on my crank.