Anti Venom

[BLS]

Anti Venom... that is what I nicknamed my 2001 Viper GTS today.

When I first got my car back in May of this year, I was all prepared to spend the $35K - $40K to have it turned into a Venom 650R. Then I meet Tom Welch of BTR Viper and Larry Macedo of Performance Motorsports.

For about $6000.00 worth of bolt on parts. My car made the following numbers on the dyno today:

Max Power = 584.8 RWHP
Max Torque = 694.6 RWTQ

Click on the link below to see the dyno sheet:

http://www.btrviper.com/Byron.jpg

Please note that we are using very conservative Nitrous settings... due to the fact my 2001 car has cast pistons.

Here are my mods:

BTR Belenger Headers
BTR Belenger Cat-back (no cats)
BTR Max Flow Intake
BTR NOS Nitrous Oxide/Propane Injection System
BTR Severe Duty Half Shafts

Next week we are adding the following upgrades to the car:

BTR Stage 2 Cylinder Head Upgrade
Arrow Roller Rockers
BTR Viper GTS Roll Bar

I will post the dyno and 1/4 mile results right after they are installed.

So, if you are planning on upgrading your Viper. I would highly recommend that you give both Tom and Larry a call. Both these guys really know their stuff and they might save you from making a huge financial mistake.

Larry Macedo
Performance Motorsports
407-366-0366

Tom Welch
BTR Viper Performance
352-622-6219

 

[Martin D]

Congrats on the strong numbers....

I appreciate you using my car as your bench mark!

Hey, what ever happend to that Cam I sent you? Any interesting information come out of that?

Also, I have to say, it did not cost me ANYWHERE NEAR 35-40 grand to make my car a Venom. John can add to this if he wishes.

Finally, STAY TUNED - 98RT10 is about to be putting down just over 600 at the wheels! (NA/no stroker) I will need to change my signature.

Regards,

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
Iam interested to know what does the car make on the dyno without the Nitrous?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Me too! Also, what did Performance do for you? All the mods were BTR equipment...

 

[BLS]

1badgts,

You need to read my post again and note that my motor is untouched. The power my car is making is from bolt ons only! Once my headwork is complete... I expect 670 to 700 RWHP with Nitrous. And there are only maybe a handfull of cars in the country that lay down those kind of numbers to the rear wheels. Please remember that my car is a "2001 Creampuff" with cast pistons and for right now we are taking it easy on the motor. I notice you talk alot... where are your dyno and dragstrip numbers??? How about posting something to support all of this chatter I see from you!


Martin D,

I would like to thank you again for sending me the 98 stock cam. We haven't done anything with it yet. But, just as soon as we do... I will let you know our findings.

Not to take anything away from your numbers... as they are very good. And since I don't know what you spent, all I can go by is data from websites and quotes that I received for a 650 flywheel horsepower upgrade... that exceeded $30K by a large margin.

If I were you... I would consider myself lucky. Because I hear and read that there are alot of these high dollar tuner cars that are not making advertised power!


Vipermad,

We have the small pills installed in my NOS/Propane system. Meaning we are only spraying a very small shot of NOS to the engine. But, we plan to up the size of the pills (and the shot) just as soon as we do some more air/fuel testing on the dyno. For more info on this subject... please contact Larry or Tom.


To sum things up... it is my opinion that, horsepower is horsepower, and it doesnt matter how you get it. I've got It... and Im getting alot more. For the price others are paying for a 550 hp engine package, Im getting 200 more hp, a roll cage, safety harnesses, Prunner drag racing wheels/tires, and alot more! Not to mention... all of my mods were installed in 2 days, while I watched.

 

[Prashant]

BLS, How about bringing it to TEXAS next month? the "handfull" that you may be talking about you will find here in Houston. October 21st Rivercity Raceway. Check this BLS, RSVP and I will pick up your Hotel Fee and Entry Fee for the Unlimited Class. Please come show us how much money you saved.

 

[9secRT]

I have to agree with Prashant, that you need to bring that car down to Texas in Oct for the drag event of the year, or lets say of the century. We are anxious to see all these cars that make all this big power on paper put it down at the dragstrip. I like dyno sheets but take them for what they are worth, and that is a sheet of paper... Bring it to the track, we can line it up against my slow '96 RT/10 **** that does not have those big paper numbers like the others and we will see who makes it to the end first and who reads whose license plate all the way down the track...

Hope to cya in Texas in Oct.....


Mark H.

 

[THEMASH]

Hey BLS,
What did you dyno stock?? and with BTR exhaust+Headers+intake??
I might go the same route you have. i am just NOS away.

o ya, nice numbers by the way.

 

[Tom Welch]

Sheyster,

I don't understand your post. Mr. BLS did not offend anyone from what I read. He is very much appreciative of Mr. D. for sending him the cam, I don't read that any other way.

As for running out of nitrous, how many consecutive times do you think that blown big block will want to be beat in front of his friends before giving up?? 3, 5, 10, 12??, 15!!. After 15 consecutive whoopings and BLS runs out of nitrous, id think that the blown camaro would of had enough! don't you??

BLS's car was using the smallest combination of jets that we offer for his pulls today(which actually leads to longer bottle life as we use a 15lb n20 bottle)

Horsepower is horsepower. Period. Thats part of what makes us all original, is how we choose to obtain it. BLS has other fast cars in his garage. I'm happy he took his viper "off the mantle" and is doing something good with it.

Best of luck to you.

StanL,

Man, wow, why so hostile? Let me answer a few of your questions with facts.

1. Nitrous is a bolt on, and can be unbolted and used on another car when one decides to sell his viper, returning it to stock and retaining its value. Take a look in the Dupont Registry for some "Tuner" cars that can't sell for much more than the price of the basic car before tens of thousands of dollars were spent on "open heart" modifications.

2. I have sold dozens of nitrous kits to viper enthusiast just so they can have the bottles in the trunk for points at car shows! They have never sprayed it!

3. I have yet to hear of a stock C-5 vette outrunning a Viper(even a stock Viper). Did that happen to you?



Tom
Http://btrviper.com

BLS.........thanks for the plug. Your satisfaction is my pleasure.

 

[Tom Welch]

Sheyster,

You are right, I agree with your post about defending BLS. I kind of take it to heart though when someone downplays the effectivness of our products. I could care less how others make power, and Im the first to admit when someone else has a faster car, like the Levin Car I recently drove, it made mine seem slow.

As for BLS and his dealings with competitors, I can't and won't speak to that. What I can say is that his word is GOOD, and he delivers as promised. Business is Business to me.

Tom

 

[BLS]

Wow... talk about a couple of ***** wastes.

Sheyster and StanL should both be wearing dresses if they are going to get their feelings hurt that easy! You girls are pathetic...

First, I meant no disrespect to Martin D. I think he is a hell of a nice guy and I enjoyed the telephone conversation we had a little over a month ago. If you go back and read my post again, you will see that I said nothing negative about him or his car. But, I did state the fact that a certain tunner who charges $35K - $40K for his 650HP upgrade package... has customer's all over the country reporting that they are way down on horsepower and Martin should consider himself lucky that he has a good one.

Martin, please accept my public apology if I said anything that offended you or your car. My post was not meant to demean or hurt you in any way.


Prashant,

Thank you once again for the kind offer of room and entry fee at the Rivercity Raceway Showdown. Larry Macedo, Tom Welch and I are planning to be there. But, I have got to tell you that we have a big race (Mopar Street Nationals) scheduled that same weekend in Naples, Florida and it is looking a lot more tempting. Mostly because we don't have to trailer our cars 1000+ miles to get there.


Mark H,

Please correct me if I am wrong... But, aren't you another one of those Viper boys who doesn't drive his own car? What are you going to do... cheer your car to victory from the grandstands? Like I told your buddy Norm "ALL CAPS" Kronner... we drive our own cars here in Florida! I guess if I spent as much money as you did and later found out I could get the same performance for about 1/3 the price... I would be a little upset too!


As for Tom Welch, I am happy to call him a good friend and you bet I support him and the products he sells. And I do this for one simple reason... Tom is a stand up guy and his products work!

I would urge everyone who is considering upgrading their Viper to give both Tom Welch and Larry Macedo a call. Both have taken very good care of my cars and I want people to know about it.

We have all heard enough "Negative Viper Tunner" posts on this forum. So, please consider this a "Positive Tunner" post for both Larry Macedo and Tom Welch.

 

[FastMatt]

Sounded more to me like he was trying to tell all of us how we can make big power and save $$$. Some of you don’t like NOS (Hell I really don’t like it), but I will be putting it on my Viper. Why? because 600RWHP for $6000 sounds allot better than 550RWHP for $40K! If you don’t like NOS, don’t use it. If you don’t like BTR don’t get his parts, but jumping all over them because he has posted some big #'s and from what I can tell has just showed us a Way we can go to make some good #'s. If we want to go that way.

 

[jimandela]

tom welch,
do you have dyno numbers for this car with the NOS off??
i am curious because i would am still considering (read lack of cash,right now) the headers and exhaust...
thanks
JIM

 

[Martin D]

BLS,

I was not offended. Actually, I like the fact that you call your car the Anti-Venom. It makes me think my car is "special".

Regards,

 

[FastMatt]

see, now there is a good why to look at it

 

[BLS]

Martin,

Any car making 565 RWHP 563 RWTQ on the motor only... is special in my book.

Now, imagine how much power you would have if you put the juice to it?

 

[Russ M]

Ok guys I guess no one is willing to just come out and say it so I will.

BTR- HOW MUCH nitrous is not much??? Dont answer me in a ridle, just say the hp shot. Every answer to date has been very missleading. A small shot could be 300 hp, if you are comparing it to a mountain nitrous motor. Please just say it, its not like nitrous is a secret by any means.

Besides 3k will get you a Borla, filters/tubes, and an NX nitrous kit. Which you can jet to 250hp safely on a viper, and guess what that will equal at least 600+ hp at wheels. So all this talk about saving money by paying 6k is a joke.

PS. My local nitrous expert has done 400hp shots on stock viper motors, without any problems. And that will still cost you way less that 6k. Can you say 720hp to the wheels!!

 

[BLS]

John,

I just went over to your web page and looked at your prices:

HMS 1.75" Headers & Exhaust System - $4,200.00
Venom Carbon Fiber Airbox - $1200.00

Total: $5,400

Now, I couldn't find any mention on your web page of an NOS Kit. But, I do have a copy of the HMS catalog you sent me back in June and you have the HMS NOS Kit listed in the catalog for $3500.00.

So, let's add this all up again...

HMS 1.75" Headers & Exhaust System - $4,200.00
Venom Carbon Fiber Airbox - $1200.00
HMS NOS Kit - $3500.00

Total: $8,900.00

Now, that is a long way from the $4500.00 you mentioned in your post above. Let me guess, you are having a 50% off sale just for Viper Club members... isn't that nice.

So, what is the real price John? Let me guess... you have two sets of prices? One for the unsuspecting "gold chainers" who read about you in magazines and see your 1/2 page ad in the Dupont Registry. And then another for people like us who know all about you and your business pratices!

I bet BTR, APEX and some of these other new tuners are really putting a hurting on your business. Not to mention you and your companies bad business reputation on these forums can't be helping the problem. Just how long did you think you could over charge all your customers without some competitor coming along and offering Viper performance parts at reasonable (fair) prices?

As for Martin D's car... all you did was sell the parts. To Martin's good fortune. He had all of the parts he bought from you installed by his own tech in Atlanta, GA. Thus possibly saving himself from all of the other problems we hear about when people send their cars to you.

Martin's car makes awesome power. But, the work was not preformed in your shop. Can you explain all of the stories going around about the cars you work on that do not make the advertised power? How about that HMS 700 Upgrade you just did for the customer in Chicago? How many times has it been back to your shop? How much power did it make on the dyno? Do I need to keep naming more???

John, my advice to you is to stick to catching the unsuspecting "Gold Chainer". You know... the one who sees your ad in the Dupont Registry. But, doesn't know anything about you. Because everybody on these forums knows what you are all about.

And while you are at it... watch out for the insurance investigators!

 

[Tom Welch]

Russ M,

BLS has 150HP jetting. When you find 720HP to the rear wheels of a viper for $ 3000.00 I will close my doors and buy from you.(im already working math to just start buying from HMS!) Till then, post facts or don't waste time stroking potential customers with unsubstantiated claims. Its that kind of nonsense that gives the tuner community a bad rap!

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[BLS]

StanL,

I have said all I need to say to you. Now go home and take off the dress and stop acting like a little girl.

Russ M,

Can you say "Cast Pistons"? Put that much NOS to a 2001 Viper... without adding any fuel enrichment (propane) and you are going to be buying a new motor. The BTR kit allows you to safely add the power adder (NOS) without causing your motor any harm. Anybody can sell you a cheaper NOS kit. But, in this case both you and your motor get what you pay for.

It's amazing how worked up some people get when somebody posts their dyno numbers. I can't wait to see how you cry babies react when I unleash my Supra on you...

 

[Prashant]

How can ANY Drag Race sound more tempting than the Viper World Championships? Tom and Larry check your mail in the next few Days. I understand about the drive guys....allot of my club members have been traveling around the country for years. But since we are the home of ALL the 9 Second Viper in the World and I am One hell of a Host..(hope you guys give me a chance to show you how we do it), and the Weather has been great down here for awhile (No HEAVY RAIN) like in FL. its going to be hard to try to get all the Fastest Vipers in the world in one place at one time, but I would like you guys from Florida to try to make that happen. IF I can help in anyway please fell free to call me or email me. thanks Again.

 

[Russ M]

Tom Welch, I did not say 720hp for 3k. I said it would be way under 6k. And it actualy a very simple kit, very similar to what you run. Except they ignore the pointless Propane that you use and just use good old fashion race fuel. And I never said that I am a tunner nor do I have any interest in being one. Just stating facts that if someone wants to do it, then the road is open for them. 200 hp per NX fogger is nothing, and that means that the only increase in cost is the addition of another fuel pump and lines, and hi flow nitrous bottle and lines.

BSE, look at the above post. If you think that you can run even a 50hp shot of nitrous without the additional fuel then I am not going to waiste my time posting a reply to your comments.

 

[Tom Welch]

1bad,

I truly enjoy reading your posts, with all of the variables and guestimations. I have only one request. Please spell MOTOR(moter is incorrect) correctly.

Russ,

Please post or email me a dyno sheet of one of these 3-6K 720RWHP vipers. I have seen only 2 vipers that produce that kind of power(i have recently had the pleasure of driving one of them), and both cars quit counting the money spent after 50 thousand dollars was laid out.

You can go to my website and see dyno results and videos of our cars and our customers cars in action, making better than advertised power and laying down the numbers at the track. Where is your website, your car, your proof of any kind? I will settle for just about anything as I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. I pride myself on being the price leader of our industry, and maybe you have found something new that none of us has tried before........cough.

As you stated earlier, "nitrous is no secret"...........so let us all see your proof of these performance numbers for headers/catback and nitrous injection. We all anxiously await your data.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Mike Adams]

For everyones info 1Badgts has one rocking car that is probably one of the fastest engine only cars on street tires. I have along with may others seen the car run low 11 on street tires. Any one who has run a car as modified as his knows how hard it is to run low times on street tires. I am sure without a doubt that with slicks his car would run well into the 10's but Joe doesn't like running anything different than he would run on the street.

Everything Joe has post are no BS truths. Trust me he has spent the money trying. Along with me. I know have tried 4 kinds of headers, different size valves, different cams, all kinds of diffentent alignments for different conditions. I can tell you what is a waste of money and what isn't just like Joe (1 badgts).

 

[BLS]

John,

I was not bragging...

Like so many other people on these forums, I just wanted to share the results of our testing and my dyno numbers. In the process I took a poke at you, your company and the ridiculas prices you charge with my "Anti Venom" nickname.

As for me being nice when I meet you, don't count on it little man!

 

[Dante'00ACR]

Byron, I notice your from the other coast but I too also know of 3 people on the west coast who's venom packages dynoed low, and didn't pull that much harder than stock for the money spent. Some of these "gold chainers" should do some serious due diligence before spending money on a tuner. Especially when they have evil henchmen like shaken-it, shook-down.....whatever.
Dante

 

[THEMASH]

I saw two VENOM 650s dyno in my area the other day, one made 480RWHP, the other about 15-20RWHP less. i am 40RWHP away

from being the "MASH650"

 

[Tom Welch]

1bad,

You seem to pride yourself on your small niche combination and want everyone else to "handicap" themselves to what suits your needs. Tell you what..........in 3 weeks there are 2 viper events here in Florida, and I believe the Nases are coming to attend with us. Hitch a ride with them, bring your grand and whatever you can stuff on your viper and lets run. Im not going to ask you what you have done, I don't care.

Here are a few things for you to think about though. Im sure that pride won't let you tell the world how much you really have invested in your engine upgrade, Id guess around 15-20K based upon the engines of Mr. Nase and Mr. Black, whom both have had vipers tuned at some point by Nick(who does a great job, by the way) that produced somewhere in the 550 hp range. With that said, im going to send you one of my videos, FREE, so that you can see for yourself a viper with just exhaust run an 11.30 on motor! You run 11.20 with 560 hp??. You can also see that same car on PILOTS run 10.80 at 136mph with "that dredded juice". If its so easy to do, go do it and send me a video clip, please.

this morning we made 505 hp @ 529 tq on the dyno with the STOCK cam. Dyno sheets will be on my website next week for your viewing pleasure. Check IT!


Well, Im getting tired of typing on this thread. I know that being a tuner myself, I should not be drug down into these conversations but I remember my heritage. I was and still am a racer first, one of the few tuners that are. I like bolt-ons like nitrous and forced air induction. If you want to race me, then be prepared to race a viper equipped as such. Period. When I attend these viper shootouts next month, im not going to cry to my competition to turn off this, change that so that we can be equal. WIN OR LOOSE we all know what we have invested in our cars, so when the tote board lites up at the end of the 1/4 mile I always smile at what I have gained for my investment. Quit crying because it aint gonna change nothing. Good nite!

Tom

One last thought, of the small handfull of Vipers that have ran a 9 second pass, ALL OF THEM are using nitrous! Coincidence or cost effective horsepower??

 

[Tom Welch]

Joe,(1bad)

Thanks for sharing your name. BLS's car has the following items:

BTR nitrous/propane Injection $ 1749.00
BTR-Belanger comp. exhaust $ 3395.00
BTR Max Flow Intake $ 399.00

His total investment not including labor is $ 5,543.00 For that amount of money he gained a safe and reliable 175 RWHP and 250 RW ft/lbs of torque.

I continue to search this board and can't remember seeing ANY other cars making that power for LESS dollars invested. His car made 438 RWHP with just the exhaust mods(which is typical of the 2001 vipers). Once he installs cylinder heads that we will be doing next week, he will gain the horsepower not yet realized in his exhaust upgrade and that, in combination with the heads should easily put him over 500 hp at the rear wheels without nitrous. Its no secret, just a matter of who can do the best work for the best price.

My niche is not to build stroker viper engines, and all of the headaches that accompany them. I will leave that to the few that do a good job now. My market segment is cost effective horsepower with reliability and longevity in mind.

How much did you spend for your 560 hp? Please answer that question!

Joe, believe it or not I appreciate your comments and your aggressive attitude. Im the same way. If someone outruns me, he will get the best that I have on that day, and a handshake. I won't ponder the shoulda-woulda-couldas.

I, like most of my customers am VERY happy with the performance of my viper for the relatively low cost invested. In two years of drag racing my viper I have only seen ONE viper in front of mine at the finish line!(Mark H., 2 years ago) Maybe Ive been lucky, but at 137 mph trap speed, there may be a handfull of vipers on the planet that can best that with any mods. We are looking forward to going even faster now with stage 2 heads installed.

Come on down, I'll buy you a steak dinner, but I won't strip any performance item from my viper when we race! You will get all that I have, so be prepared.

I love this smack talk! LOL.....

Tom

 

[Prashant]

the only way you guys are going to see cars in front of you at the track is down in Texas. I know about the gig in FL, but times are times, don't you guys like the fear of competition? Its always fun to be the biggest kid in the playground. but its even more fun to win around serious competition.

 

[Tom Welch]

Prashant,

No doubt, very strong competition lurks in Texas, but please don't underestimate some of the Levin cars not to mention BTR cars. If the Jersey Posse makes it down here we will have our own "big gig" that should prove exciting at the very least.

Thanks again for the invite, I wish that the S. Fla club would anti up rooms for you Texans to come race here. We are still on the fence of which race to attend. Leaning towards Moroso, should the Nase's come down. They are great folks to race with.

Tom