Belanger header O2 sensor location?

[ontariomystic]

Are there any known issues using these headers with the O2 sensor reading off of one primary instead of at the collecter?

 

[KNG SNKE]

The cars tend to run richer due to only sampling one cylinder. I am in the process of changing mine because it is running a lot richer than I would like.

 

[ontariomystic]

This issue can be corrected with some tuning?

 

[KNG SNKE]

Not to my knowledge. The o2 keeps the motor running well, if your only sampling 1 cylinder then your engine will make adjustments based on that 1 cylinder which means even if you tune it your sending no data about the other 8 cylinders to the pcm.

 

[ontariomystic]

No offence to belanger but why does everyone say they are the best? Seems like a poor design to put the sensor in one primary tube.

 

[speedracervr4]

The sensors will reach the collector ****, that's how I run mine.

 

[ViperTony]

No offence to belanger but why does everyone say they are the best? Seems like a poor design to put the sensor in one primary tube.

I've spoken with Lou Belanger a number of times, great to talk to and I asked him the question about single vs. collector. He believes that the single tube location is perfectly fine and resolved the O2 cel issue. My firsthand experience concludes that my AFR behaves differently when the O2 is reading one cylinder vs. the entire bank. Was it detrimental difference? No. Did I notice any change in performance? Yes, my AFR was able to be tuned in the range I needed for my mods. I'd rather read 5 cylinders when at all possible.

In his original header design he had the O2 sensor in the collector area to read all 5 cylinders like stock. Some Viper owners began experiencing an O2 heater code (CEL) with the O2 in the collector area. This related to the OEM sensors being in a location further away than stock per the original OEM location. They may not heat up quickly enough and trigger a CEL. He then moved the location back to the primary tube area. Upon request, he'll put the O2 **** in the collector location. I had him do this for me. At the time, and until recently, the way to resolve this O2 CEL issue was to purchase QuickFire O2 sensors from DC Performance. They did work (I've had them). This issue occurred on occassion on GenII Vipers. Now, with the SCT tuning software, the O2 sensor parameters (Heatup time I believe) can be changed so need to swap out the OEM sensor at all. Others simply clear the code if it comes up.

They are great headers, well made and proven. If for some reason you're ordering these headers from a reseller and they can't get you the O2 in the collector location, just call Lou directly and he'll get it done. Or do it yourself. Not difficult to do at all. I'm using a one-off prototype set of Belanger headers Lou made for me 2 years ago. He's easy to work with and stands behing his products.

If there's one thing I can complain about with the belanger headers, it's the flanges. They need to be thicker. In this regard, I think M&M got it right with thicker flanges. Why thicker? I've seen Belanger flanges warp and eventually leak if over-torqued. Granted, thicker flanges can't fix the stupid but it wouldn't hurt.

Then, for me, there's the sound that the Belanger headers produce. Second to none and makes the exhaust note.

I originally welded in a secondary **** in the collector facing underneath, at an angle. I did this because welding the **** directly on top of the collector area will cause the O2 sensor to interfere with the heat shield and the shield would need to be modified. I ran the sensor below the collector for 4 years without issue. On my current set of Belanger headers, the **** is indeed on top of the collector. No issues over the last 3 years. I did modify my heat shields to accomodate this as opposed to removing them entirely.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/633639-My-Creampuff-NA-Build?p=2881802&viewfull=1#post2881802

 

[KNG SNKE]

The design was because of heating issues with the o2. They would throw check engine lights when the o2's were in the collectors. These headers are great for open loop because they flow so much and your oem o2's don't come into play with most setups.

 

[dave6666]

With SCT you can set the counter on the preheat codes to some unobtainable number i.e. it will never throw that code regardless if it is throwing the code. Here's where I put the sensors on my Belangers.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Garron]

Belanger can make the headers however you want, pickle, no pickle, no down stream, upstream in the collector, or in the pipe. Oxygen sensors do not work correctly unless they are hot. You want them as close to the factory distance away from the head as possible.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Belanger can make the headers however you want, pickle, no pickle, no down stream, upstream in the collector, or in the pipe. Oxygen sensors do not work correctly unless they are hot. You want them as close to the factory distance away from the head as possible.

I talked with Tator in regards to the solution to this because my car loses multiple mpgs due to running rich. He said mount it in the collector and wrap just the collector with exhaust wrapping to keep the o2 hot.

 

[Jack B]

You can also drilled a hole in the heat shield to allow the sensor clearance. In general you don't put the sensor in the bottom side of the pipe due to moisture during a cold start, it can ruin the sensor.

I've spoken with Lou Belanger a number of times, great to talk to and I asked him the question about single vs. collector. He believes that the single tube location is perfectly fine and resolved the O2 cel issue. My firsthand experience concludes that my AFR behaves differently when the O2 is reading one cylinder vs. the entire bank. Was it detrimental difference? No. Did I notice any change in performance? Yes, my AFR was able to be tuned in the range I needed for my mods. I'd rather read 5 cylinders when at all possible.

In his original header design he had the O2 sensor in the collector area to read all 5 cylinders like stock. Some Viper owners began experiencing an O2 heater code (CEL) with the O2 in the collector area. This related to the OEM sensors being in a location further away than stock per the original OEM location. They may not heat up quickly enough and trigger a CEL. He then moved the location back to the primary tube area. Upon request, he'll put the O2 **** in the collector location. I had him do this for me. At the time, and until recently, the way to resolve this O2 CEL issue was to purchase QuickFire O2 sensors from DC Performance. They did work (I've had them). This issue occurred on occassion on GenII Vipers. Now, with the SCT tuning software, the O2 sensor parameters (Heatup time I believe) can be changed so need to swap out the OEM sensor at all. Others simply clear the code if it comes up.

They are great headers, well made and proven. If for some reason you're ordering these headers from a reseller and they can't get you the O2 in the collector location, just call Lou directly and he'll get it done. Or do it yourself. Not difficult to do at all. I'm using a one-off prototype set of Belanger headers Lou made for me 2 years ago. He's easy to work with and stands behing his products.

If there's one thing I can complain about with the belanger headers, it's the flanges. They need to be thicker. In this regard, I think M&M got it right with thicker flanges. Why thicker? I've seen Belanger flanges warp and eventually leak if over-torqued. Granted, thicker flanges can't fix the stupid but it wouldn't hurt.

Then, for me, there's the sound that the Belanger headers produce. Second to none and makes the exhaust note.

I originally welded in a secondary **** in the collector facing underneath, at an angle. I did this because welding the **** directly on top of the collector area will cause the O2 sensor to interfere with the heat shield and the shield would need to be modified. I ran the sensor below the collector for 4 years without issue. On my current set of Belanger headers, the **** is indeed on top of the collector. No issues over the last 3 years. I did modify my heat shields to accomodate this as opposed to removing them entirely.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/633639-My-Creampuff-NA-Build?p=2881802&viewfull=1#post2881802

 

[Jack B]

Twin ceramic coating keeps the heat in the pipe.

I talked with Tator in regards to the solution to this because my car loses multiple mpgs due to running rich. He said mount it in the collector and wrap just the collector with exhaust wrapping to keep the o2 hot.

 

[Garron]

I talked with Tator in regards to the solution to this because my car loses multiple mpgs due to running rich. He said mount it in the collector and wrap just the collector with exhaust wrapping to keep the o2 hot.

Interesting,

Ontariomystic you will have to come out to some Ontario events when it gets warmer. You can listen to the different headers and talk to the some viper owners. Belanger is very popular in Ontario.

Garrett

 

[ontariomystic]

Interesting,

Ontariomystic you will have to come out to some Ontario events when it gets warmer. You can listen to the different headers and talk to the some viper owners. Belanger is very popular in Ontario.

Garrett

I was out earlier this Spring and met a bunch of the local guys and saw some nice Vipers. Just looking for a good exhaust setup that can pass emissions and not become a hassle cause the car develops issues. Sent you a PM

 

[ViperTony]

You can also drilled a hole in the heat shield to allow the sensor clearance. In general you don't put the sensor in the bottom side of the pipe due to moisture during a cold start, it can ruin the sensor.

That's what I did. And installed the OEM sensors in the collector location over the past year with no codes thrown and no tuning fix. Coincidentally, I only had the CEL issue when my engine was stock. A local owner wrapped his collector per Tator but the code still popped up. He got tired of clearing it and ended up installing heated O2 sensors which solved the problem for him.

 

[ontariomystic]

That's what I did. And installed the OEM sensors in the collector location over the past year with no codes thrown and no tuning fix. Coincidentally, I only had the CEL issue when my engine was stock. A local owner wrapped his collector per Tator but the code still popped up. He got tired of clearing it and ended up installing heated O2 sensors which solved the problem for him.

Do you know which O2's solved the issue? Didn't know the factory ones had no heater.

 

[ViperTony]

Do you know which O2's solved the issue? Didn't know the factory ones had no heater.

Dan from DC Performance sells "Quick Fire" heated O2's. He says they are custom made from NGK I believe. Best to contact Dan Cragin directly.

 

[Garron]

Do you know which O2's solved the issue? Didn't know the factory ones had no heater.

Factory oxygen sensors do have a heater, the quickfire sensors get hot "faster"

 

[dave6666]

I had quickfire sensors. I renamed them quickcode sensors as every time I started the car they threw a preheat code. Went back to the stock Bosch and let the SCT take care of the codes.