<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vic:
Brett, for some reason, I think you are referring to the video of Sam, (?) whose passenger told him to turn it off right away, after the crash, yes? That car had the stock brakes altered, and after market braking system components installed that has a questionable record, at least according to some people on this board. But I have no first hand info on that. I just wanted to let you know that those were'nt stock brakes.
My understanding is that if you go to a driving school, as long as you are not doing timed laps, then its not "racing", and most or at least some insurance covers driving schools.
What I would like to know, is how an ABS system can allow the pedal to go to the floor. Its not like the pedal just puts an input into the computer! The pedal is pushing brake fluid into the ABS module. There is an actual amount of fluid displaced! If the module goes "stupid", or malfunctions in any way, that displaced fluid still has to go somewhere. It just doesn't get swallowed up by a big mysterious computer. When the pedal goes to the floor, the master cylinder either isn't displacing any fluid at all, or there is a leak somewhere.
Doesn't matter what the computerr is doing, or not doing! Volume is volume. Pascal's laws still apply. Either the master fluid did not displace any fluid, or there is a leak.
If the computer took the input from the pedal directly, and this input was subject to the viscisitudes of computer failure, then an electrical failure like a blown fuse or a weak battery/charging system would result in a loss of brakes. The world is not built this way. I'm almost 100% sure that ABS systems are designed "fail-safe", where if there is any electrical or electronic problem, the displaced brake fluid merely passes through the ABS module, to the slave cylinders.
And if I am wrong, and it doesn't work this way, then where does the displaced brake fluid go, when the pedal goes to the floor? Into the ABS modules' displaced brake fluid storage balloon? No such thing!
Which leads me back to my point- which is-
Either the master cylinder did not displace any fluid, or there is a leak somewhere.
But I still could be wrong.
Is there anyone out there who has a nuts and bolts knowledge of how ABS systems are designed? I don't mean just superficial knowledge, like its a closed loop real time sensor feedback pressure modulation device, or you puch the pedal, and it does magic, or some other off the cuff stuff. I mean, is there anyone out there who knows exactly what takes place inside the ABS module?
My guess is that it just pulses the pressure to the slave cylinders, according to the compared data from the sensors, relating it to vehicle speed, and determining which slave cylinder(s) to pulse, by how hard, and how fast, in real time.
So if I am right, and its just modulating the pressure to the slave cylinders, then there is still no reason the computer could just "get stupid", and let the pedal go to the floor. Its a sealed system, and that volume has to go somewhere, even if the computer malfunctions.
I could see how a computerr malfunction coul dprevent any pressure from reaching the slaves, or pulse them erractically, but this would be a solid pedal, but no stopping action kind of a symtom. This still does not relate to the pedal going to the floor. I would have to conclude that something essentially mechanical in nature faiilure took place, such as when the master cylinder seal lets the fluid go by the piston, or if there is an outright leak somewhere.
But what about dual-piston master cylinders? Do our Vipers have dual pistons?
And is there anything I am missing, concerning the nature of ABS modules? I'll admit I never took one apart, or studied them.
Anybody out there got anything solidly technical to add? I'm at the end of my understanding....
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YES there is somebody out there that knows the answer to these questions...DCX and specifically PVO if they would return the calls! Very distrubing that the DCX contracted inspector comes up with a conclusion that he dosen't know what happened. What's with that? Are brake and ABS systems a black art instead of science? Sounds like rear end covering to me. Also, comments about DCX making progress on the brakes of the SRT does not eliminate the responsibility of DCX and PVO to respond to this important safety issue concerning current GEN Vipers and having the courtesy and concern to respond to viper1997. Maybe we could get Jay Leno to call them to get an answer?