Car grinding going into reverse. Help!

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Went to leave somewhere yesterday and car wouldn't go in reverse. When it finally went in, it grinded. Continued to have this problem each time I tried to back up for the rest of the night. This morning, it did the same thing 1st couple times I backed up. Then, I was in a parking lot and decided to "test" it by pulling forward and going backwards a few times. It went in reverse smooth as butter and backed up fine, with no noises at all 10 times in a row. Left parking lot, did some more driving and then, the next few times I tried to back up, it went back to grinding. A few other details:

1. Car is a 96 RT/10
2. All forward gears are fine. No grinding or slipping
3. Clutch pedal feels same as usual. Same "stiffness" and release point as normal
4. 92k miles on car. Clutch has been replaced, but at least 40k miles ago. Flywheel was resurfaced at this time
5. Clutch fluid replaced about 11k ago

So, what's it sound like to everyone? Clutch, synchro, fluid, etc, etc, etc, etc? I'll allow 2 useless ******* jokes, then I need actual answers TIA!

 

[1994viper]

I have the same problem. And had it for the past year. I would like to find out what could be wrong with my trany as well.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Grinding indicates the transmission input is spinning at the time of reverse engagement and the reverse synchronizer is not doing its job. Now a reverse synchronizer is not a requirement as most manual cars do not have one, so if it has gone bad it may not be an issue. The problem though is that the clutch disk is spinning the trans input for some reason. There can be several reasons. the most obvious is that the clutch is not releasing entirely. Possible causes include air in the clutch system, clutch over worn, damaged splines on the disk and/or shaft (even rust if you have been out fording with it), clutch, pressure plate or flywheel surface runout, pressure plate fastener(s) loose, etc. It is even possible the entire transm ission is loose, or god forbid, the flywheel is loose. A loose flywheel often makes a sound like a main bearing with excess clearance.

Have you noticed a change in the release point?

When coming from first the trans input shaft is stopped. Have you tried being in neutral and quickly depressing the clutch and seeing how long and/or how hard it is to place in a forward gear? A way to check and see how hard the synchro is working to compensate for a dragging clutch.

To see how bad the clutch is sticking try to shift from reverse to neutral and quickly back to see how much it drags and grinds. If it causes a grinding sensation with a quick evaluation then the clutch drag is pretty serious. I would not ignore it as you are working the first gear synchro each neutral to first shift and you probably don't want to wear it out.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[RobZ]

To get around the problem select a forward gear first (5th) and then go to reverse.



Rob

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Have you noticed a change in the release point?

No, release point feels the same as always

Have you tried being in neutral and quickly depressing the clutch and seeing how long and/or how hard it is to place in a forward gear? A way to check and see how hard the synchro is working to compensate for a dragging clutch.

I just cranked up the car and did this. It was maybe a little harder than normal, but not much at all.

To see how bad the clutch is sticking try to shift from reverse to neutral and quickly back to see how much it drags and grinds. If it causes a grinding sensation with a quick evaluation then the clutch drag is pretty serious.

When I did this, it would take me 3-4 times of putting it into reverse before the car would actually go completely in gear instead of just grinding. Once I was able to get the car in reverse and start going backwards, I came to an abrupt stop, put it back in neutral and immediately back in reverse and it went back in reverse properly without grinding. I successfully did this twice. If I came to a complete stop and put it back in neutral and tried to go back in reverse at a normal speed, it would again take me 3-4 times to get the shifter completely into reverse.

What should be my 1st troubleshooting step? Replace the clutch?

Thanks for the help!

To get around the problem select a forward gear first (5th) and then go to reverse.



Rob

I talked to the owner of a transmission repair shop earlier today and he suggested I try that as well. I haven't tried this, but will tomorrow. Thanks for the idea!

 

[1994viper]

Thanks for the write up. I think that my Clutch is almost worn out, and I ordered a new one last week (should be in this week) I didn’t think those could be relevant. Last week I noticed that my clutch is catching almost at the point at which the pedal is completely released. I am finding it strange that it doesn’t seem to be slipping or giving any smell. I am not sure what a main bearing with excess clearance sounds like, but I get an occasional clunky sound when just starting to move forward. What could happened if a flywheel is lose? Now I am worried.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Thanks for the write up. I think that my Clutch is almost worn out, and I ordered a new one last week (should be in this week) I didn’t think those could be relevant. Last week I noticed that my clutch is catching almost at the point at which the pedal is completely released. I am finding it strange that it doesn’t seem to be slipping or giving any smell. I am not sure what a main bearing with excess clearance sounds like, but I get an occasional clunky sound when just starting to move forward. What could happened if a flywheel is lose? Now I am worried.

Hmmmmmm, I've noticed the same "clunky" noise in mine when starting to go forward. I thought it was just something that needed to be greased.

The difference is, my clutch is still releasing in the middle instead of at the top like yours.

 

[Mopar Boy]

So, what's it sound like to everyone?

I'll allow 2 useless red jokes, then I need actual answers TIA!

Sounds like a red issue to me!

Guess 1 of 2 jokes are gone!

Back to the question though. Leaves me with a question. Have you noticed any small issues getting into reverse previously? Stiffness or ? Also, what have you done with the car in the last week or two? Drag racing? Autocross? Anything abnormal that may have caused a clutch issue?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Doubtful the noise you are hearing is the flywheel. It makes the main bearing noise when you are not pressing on the clutch and stops/decreases when you press on the clutch. Only the sound is similar. The clunk you are hearing is probably driveline clunk, which for Gen I was normally the rear hub spline fit / fastener torque.

Chad it really sounds like the disengagement point is low or the clutch is dragging somehow. If the engagement point has not changed but the release point has ( you should be able to evaluate the release point by slowly depressing the clutch when accelerating in a high gear at a low speed, say 1200 - 1400 rpm, if the release point is well above the floor then I think you can take air in the fluid and clutch wear out of the equation. Some of the other possible causes such as a binding spline, warped parts and or loose fasteners could be at play.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Another thing that can affect reverse alone is a bent shift fork. When shifting into reverse does it seem like it catches just at the end of shifter travel? Unfortunately bent shift forks were common on Gen I with cast iron forks (went to steel for Gen II). Never heard of a reverse one as most are caused when power shifting too aggressively. You haven't slammed it into reverse to get back to ******* quickly have you???

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Sounds like a red issue to me!

Guess 1 of 2 jokes are gone!

Back to the question though. Leaves me with a question. Have you noticed any small issues getting into reverse previously? Stiffness or ? Also, what have you done with the car in the last week or two? Drag racing? Autocross? Anything abnormal that may have caused a clutch issue?

I was expecting a response from you, thats why I added my disclaimer of only 2 useless posts allowed Luckily, all the forward gears are fine, so I can still beat yellow Vipers (I would only need 1st and 2nd anyway ). I'll just need to put it in neutral and have someone push me backwards to the start line if we wanted to race again

For the actual useful part of your post, no and no. I hadn't noticed the car being difficult to get in reverse, and no drag racing, auto-x, etc. It just started acting up out of the blue.

I should add, that some of the time, I can tell its not going all the way in reverse, but then other times, it DOES feel like it's all the way in reverse and still grinds when I go to back up.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Another thing that can affect reverse alone is a bent shift fork. When shifting into reverse does it seem like it catches just at the end of shifter travel? Unfortunately bent shift forks were common on Gen I with cast iron forks (went to steel for Gen II). Never heard of a reverse one as most are caused when power shifting too aggressively. You haven't slammed it into reverse to get back to ******* quickly have you???

When putting it into reverse, the shifter feels like it normally has. Sometimes, I can feel its not going all the way in reverse, but sometimes, it feels like it's completely in gear and still grinds. I just backed it out onto the street and it still is only going into reverse without grinding maybe 20-25% of the time. After grinding, I tried putting it in 5th and then back to reverse and it still grinded. Did the same thing with putting it in 3rd and it grinded when put back in reverse as well.

I haven't slammed it into reverse, so the bent fork isn't likely, but then again, this is my luck we're talking about, so anything is possible.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I was expecting a response from you, thats why I added my disclaimer of only 2 useless posts allowed Luckily, all the forward gears are fine, so I can still beat yellow Vipers (I would only need 1st and 2nd anyway ). I'll just need to put it in neutral and have someone push me backwards to the start line if we wanted to race again

For the actual useful part of your post, no and no. I hadn't noticed the car being difficult to get in reverse, and no drag racing, auto-x, etc. It just started acting up out of the blue.

I should add, that some of the time, I can tell its not going all the way in reverse, but then other times, it DOES feel like it's all the way in reverse and still grinds when I go to back up.

That is starting to sound more like the fork, fork pads or something in the internal shift mechanism. I do not know the T56 very well so not sure what all it may have. But anything that causes a loss of motion could cause this (like bent fork, worn fork or fork pads, etc).

 

[dave6666]

I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express since the last time you sent those girls to meet me.

You want more answers...?

Send more girls.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

That is starting to sound more like the fork, fork pads or something in the internal shift mechanism. I do not know the T56 very well so not sure what all it may have. But anything that causes a loss of motion could cause this (like bent fork, worn fork or fork pads, etc).

So, would it just be best to have the tranny pulled, opened up and see what all looks like it needs replacing?

 

[dave6666]

So, would it just be best to have the tranny pulled, opened up and see what all looks like it needs replacing?

Send girls to





There. That's 2 worthless answers.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I would take it to a place that has experience with the BW T56 (Viper, Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, etc). Pulling the trans is not too bad if you have a lift and are mechanically capable and do not mind losing a bit of skin here and there. Otherwise the T56 is a pretty well know transmission and many places can work on it.

Here is a picture of the shift rails and forks. It does not specifically mention fork pads for reverse, but does show other parts that could be worn causing lost motion.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[GR8_ASP]

Better picture. the lever at the bottom of the shaft in the center is the reverse fork/lever.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[dave6666]

Better picture. the lever at the bottom of the shaft in the center is the reverse fork/lever.

Sending Chad a technical drawing is like asking me to skip NASCAR and beer on Sunday.

Chad... Put the Crayons down.





Chad!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

I know - I should of put a picture of a hottie riding on the reverse fork.

 

[dave6666]

...I should of put a picture of a hottie riding on the reverse fork.

I have just given up NASCAR and beer on...

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

More than you wanted to know

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/media/pdfs_autogen/T-56_Service_Manual.pdf

 

[dave6666]

More than you wanted to know

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/media/pdfs_autogen/T-56_Service_Manual.pdf

Necesito una versión española Tom

 

[dave6666]

OK Chad. This is the money post. 89,000 miles on car...?

Get a new freakin' transmission son!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Necesito una versión española Tom

Davido, aqui en Neuva York, nosotros entiende todos los Texaquistadores entiende espanola y ingles, no? Como se dice "Viper T-56 = consumable part"?

Estoy en T-56 numero tres....

 

[Tom Sessions]

So Chad when the trans grinds you said it grinds as you back up. Does this mean the car is moving backwards and grinding or does it mean that you put the shifter in rev and let the clutch out it grinds and does not move?

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

OK Chad. This is the money post. 89,000 miles on car...?

Get a new freakin' transmission son!

89,000? What's it look like, a garage queen? It's got almost 93k on it. You would think the fact that the car has never been wet would've helped the tranny last longer

I'm thinking I'll have the tranny pulled and get an estimate for repair and then weigh that against the cost of a new/rebuilt one. I'm hoping its a hidden 20 amp "car will grind when going into reverse" fuse that noone except transmission experts know about and the repair will cost me about $10 parts and labor

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

So Chad when the trans grinds you said it grinds as you back up. Does this mean the car is moving backwards and grinding or does it mean that you put the shifter in rev and let the clutch out it grinds and does not move?

Option B. I put the shifter in reverse, let the clutch out, and it grinds, but car does not move.

I had a passenger with me this weekend. I wonder if his added weight in the car is what killed the tranny. I think I'll ask him to pay for half the repairs

 

[1994viper]

Mine seems not to be going in all the way, and when I release the clutch pedal, I can feel that the shift knob pops out, but not quite all the way to the neutral. That is when the grinding noise is coming, and even if I press the clutch pedal back all the way in, the grinding continues, until I pull the shifter in to the neutral.

 

[pocketAA]

I have a 99 RT10 with 10,000 miles on it. My reverse does the exact same thing as V10SpeedLuvr. It is almost like it is not in the reverse gear when i think it is. Then when i try to let the clutch out and back up, BAM I get the grinding noise. I put the clutch back in and make sure i get it in reverse, then no grinding. All the other gears are fine, I do not see anything wrong with them. What i have been trying to do is to go through the gears before putting it in reverse. That seems to help and work. I hope it is not a tranny problem, I was just attributing it to user error by not getting it in the reverse gear properly.