ViperGTS
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You all have never experienced real socialism - otherwise you would not reiterate all the time that you have a "socialist government" 
Chrysler says it got no offers for Viper plant
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Warfang
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You all have never experienced real socialism - otherwise you would not reiterate all the time that you have a "socialist government"
True... this is turning out to be more of a Facist govt than a socialist one.
Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
tennis tom
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You all have never experienced real socialism - otherwise you would not reiterate all the time that you have a "socialist government"
Oh yes I have, I've lived and operated a business in frisco!
tennis tom
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We're getting there Warfang, the populace will tire of the anarchy we are disolving into and happpily embrace a strong-****** leader to return order. ****** was elected.
Lawrenzo
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Lawrenzo
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It's information(misinformation) like this that causes us to trip up.
from a very recent Autoweek article-
But the court documents show that on May 15, Chrysler received a $5.5 million offer from Devon Motor Works to buy the entire Viper operation, with no assumption of liabilities, and to lease the Conner Avenue plant for one year.
slaughterj
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You can't rely on the media for much other than getting things wrong.
slaughterj
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I can pony up some coin. I bet we as a community could easily pool our money and come up with a serious offer. I could put forth $50K to the deal. I'm serious, let's put Bob and John Slaughter on point to arrange this
Some time back I said I was willing to receive the checks, but for some reason, none have shown up!
What do you know that's different? Everything I'm reading SAYS it's for the whole deal. Where are you getting your info. The Devon deal would use the Viper underpinnings, so maybe you should pony up some info here. Those of us who can't comprehend could learn from you. Seriously, I'd like you to lay out the deal word for word showing that the sale of the "Viper line" at $10 million (now potentially @ $5.5m) is only for the building.
Warfang
Enthusiast
I hadn't heard, is Cheney planning on running in 2012
Libs like to throw the word facist around yet have NO IDEA what it means...
Looks like we stay in the family (for now) I hope this is good news!
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2009/06/viper-sticks-with-chrysler-kenosha-may-go-to-fiat/
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2009/06/viper-sticks-with-chrysler-kenosha-may-go-to-fiat/
Warfang
Enthusiast
Let's see... our American brand (Viper) kicks their premium brand's @$$ at a fraction of the cost. Just like Daimler wouldn't let the Viper steal the SLR's thunder, I doubt they'll let the Viper stay on top of the hill for long... if at all.
But hey... I could be wrong.
Y2K10 SRT#39
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We should do what the folks at Harley did---and buy the place and the stuff!
PBR
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Martin
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If Fiat was the mystery White Knight all along (instead of just the stalking horse), I'd be really surprised and amused... Wouldn't it be funny if they did the Chrysler deal because they wanted to acquire the Viper assets?
What I think happened here is that the timeframe for a deal with a buyer wasn't going to fall within the June 8 deadline, so they decided to make a last-minute amendment to sell the Viper assets to the New Chrysler so that it could have enough time to get the deal done. Under a Section 363 BK, they have to sell the assets before those assets might be put in the basket of assets that would require creditor approval to sell - and if they didn't sell Viper before June 8, the Viper assets would have been fair game. They obviously see the value in Viper, and/or have confidence a deal will be done soon, or they would have just tossed it out with the Old Chrysler.
So I have just read a lot of the posts I could find about bids etc.. There's a lot of to and fro on what is actually going for $10M. In order to clarify, an e-mail has been sent to Cerberus. Hope they reply.
Assuming it's the Viper brand (and intellectual property) with the lease of the plant, machines etc. that is up for sale..
I would be in it for raising capital amongst ourselves (as silent partners) and keeping the beast alive. Otherwise, I may have access to some VCs.
We can assume that we can squeeze through the 2010/2011 model years with minor tweaks to the car at most, no major changes to the production line necessary.. We'd need cash to keep running for at least 3 years..
How much running capital do you estimate we would need to keep the brand alive?
Assuming it's the Viper brand (and intellectual property) with the lease of the plant, machines etc. that is up for sale..
I would be in it for raising capital amongst ourselves (as silent partners) and keeping the beast alive. Otherwise, I may have access to some VCs.
We can assume that we can squeeze through the 2010/2011 model years with minor tweaks to the car at most, no major changes to the production line necessary.. We'd need cash to keep running for at least 3 years..
How much running capital do you estimate we would need to keep the brand alive?
Tabs1
Viper Owner
What you really need to know is what would the net profit be based on 1200 cars. This takes everything into account from production, parts, rent, salaries, benefits, insurances (very expensive), management, partners cuts, federal and state tax, accounting fees, waste fees, warrantee funds, advertising, R&R and a thousand others.
Much easier to turn a profit when the model sells over 30,000 units. Unless you sell them for 250,000 like Ferrari. Even with Viper MSRP at 92000, you can get them in these sad times for 70. So what did Chrysler really make on them? A loss of something probably.
Much easier to turn a profit when the model sells over 30,000 units. Unless you sell them for 250,000 like Ferrari. Even with Viper MSRP at 92000, you can get them in these sad times for 70. So what did Chrysler really make on them? A loss of something probably.
Martin
Enthusiast
What amazes me is that Viper (and Wrangler) were the only two 'viable' lines across the whole Chrysler lineup. Even with the discounts, they obviously made money on the cars. Add some production efficiency to the mix, cut some of the corporate fat, and you've got a potentially very lucrative supercar company.
Given the recent disclosures, my personal opinion is that Viper would be best off staying under the Chrysler umbrella, but be allowed to operate as a separate business unit. That would allow them to leverage some off-the-shelf parts from the rest of the company, but still cut some costs and red-tape that have plagued it for a while now. It will be interesting to see what happens - things are so changeable right now that just about anything could happen.
Given the recent disclosures, my personal opinion is that Viper would be best off staying under the Chrysler umbrella, but be allowed to operate as a separate business unit. That would allow them to leverage some off-the-shelf parts from the rest of the company, but still cut some costs and red-tape that have plagued it for a while now. It will be interesting to see what happens - things are so changeable right now that just about anything could happen.
Agreed, some accounting documents would be great if we could get our hands on them
. I would assume they have pretty accurate figures for costs per unit based on production tiers.True, although relatively speaking a Viper is very affordable compared to a Lambo or a Ferrari (from a performance point of view). I understand that the cars are completely different, however with the correct marketing and customer perception, an international sales plan, a few choice tweaks it should have a pretty good chance to fight with the other brands in a higher pricing bracket. In Europe for example, the viper can cost as much as a Ferrari, yet people still buy one.
Tabs1
Viper Owner
Agreed. And as a seperste entity without the long term expenses as union retirement and health care it may in fact not only be profitable, but sustainable.
The back end has caught up with these companies and is a part of their demise. At a clean start without those contracts a business model would probably look favorable.
Now the question is can you build these cars without the union?
The back end has caught up with these companies and is a part of their demise. At a clean start without those contracts a business model would probably look favorable.
Now the question is can you build these cars without the union?
When we visited the plant last time, there were about 50 employees at the plant.. how hard could it be to have non-unionized employees? You can start off by guaranteeing salaries and no redundancies for 2 years (except for non-performing employees of course). The employee cost, in my guesstimates is actually not so large if the company has sales coming in.
Tabs1
Viper Owner
Thats not exactly what I meant.
Yes you can train anyone to do any job.
But you are still getting parts from union shops, or Chryslers union parts bin.
So the question still is, can you ( will they let you) build it outside the union workforce. It is easy to say f@@@ em, just do it, logistically try it.
Try getting a building built without the local unions, Aint gonna happen....
Yes you can train anyone to do any job.
But you are still getting parts from union shops, or Chryslers union parts bin.
So the question still is, can you ( will they let you) build it outside the union workforce. It is easy to say f@@@ em, just do it, logistically try it.
Try getting a building built without the local unions, Aint gonna happen....
Good point. That does have to be factored in too.
I second that!
That's what I'm talking about; and I'm serious too. I swear, once I found out the price, I have been talking to people about the possibility of raising cash. It's still a really, really long shot, but I do like the idea of being part of something I'm passionate about.
Tabs1
Viper Owner
Is 5.5 million or 10 million for the assembly plant only?
If its just the plant and equipment it is still a good deal. But what would the cost of the CAR be.
Meaning the complete operation. Inventory, parts, and most importantly name and intellectual property. Basically the ability to build the Viper without a redesign and recert. Even a seat change would have to be recertified and not being a major player could mean a lot of time and money.
What do you think?
If its just the plant and equipment it is still a good deal. But what would the cost of the CAR be.
Meaning the complete operation. Inventory, parts, and most importantly name and intellectual property. Basically the ability to build the Viper without a redesign and recert. Even a seat change would have to be recertified and not being a major player could mean a lot of time and money.
What do you think?
Tabs1
Viper Owner
The scary part is that the Italians just dont understand our Viper. Their sports cars are magnificent but over engineered, costly, and overly well appointed. Plus maintanence is a mortgage.
I dont see them being all warm and fuzzy over the snake.
A 50,000 dollar investment with enough partners would be nice.
I dont see them being all warm and fuzzy over the snake.
A 50,000 dollar investment with enough partners would be nice.
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