Gen4 Gen3 transmission swap problem

[deadman]

We did placed a Gen4 transmission into 1000TT Gen3 car and run into small dimension problems. The Gen4 tranny seems to be about 1/2 inch longer resulting in occasional problems with shifter position when changing gears to 2nd.

Did anyone run into the same problems?

Is tunnel cockpit plastic cover different Gen4 to Gen3?

We've also changed clutch but did not change outside housing of it. Is this the key? We've had to enlarge the brace hole to accommodate for a different position of tranny mount

Thanks!

 

[Joseph Dell]

Dropped a Gen4 tranny into a gen2 w/o issue. didn't have the same issue. weird!

 

[Bobpantax]

Who is the "we" that did this job? I ask because there are detailed threads about this subject on this forum and if the people doing the work for you are Viper knowledgeable, they would have done some homework first. Be careful.

In any event, you need to change out the driveshaft yolk. The yolk from the SRT10 Viper truck works. There may be another part that does the job, but I do not know what it is. Mark Jorgensen at Woodhouse did mine in January 2008. He and his techs figured out the fix. It was discussed with the SRT engineers at the time right after the work was done. Good luck.

 

[deadman]

'we' mean me and friend of mine 1000TT viper owner and car folks over in the garage here in the middle of Europe. There is nothing mysterious about the swap itself. Everything fits. Only the transmision is about 1/2 inch longer. That's all. Now - we don't know whether Gen4 compensate for this by shorter clutch housing (doubt it) or by (we don't know).

The only indisputable fact is that the housing for shifter is about 1/2 inch down the road from front towards the back. Because the syncs on Gen4 tranny take about 1/2 inch more space. And this sync part is the beginning of Gen4 housing (as seen from front towards the back). The same part on Gen3 tranny is about 1/2 inch shorter. And we don't know how to compensate for this.

I tried search to no avail.

 

[jdavis]

From what I have gathered the Woodhouse/MGW shifter and the yoke from the Viper truck
should solve your problem.
You should e-mail Mark Jorgensen at [email protected].

 

[Bobpantax]

'we' mean me and friend of mine 1000TT viper owner and car folks over in the garage here in the middle of Europe. There is nothing mysterious about the swap itself. Everything fits. Only the transmision is about 1/2 inch longer. That's all. Now - we don't know whether Gen4 compensate for this by shorter clutch housing (doubt it) or by (we don't know).

The only indisputable fact is that the housing for shifter is about 1/2 inch down the road from front towards the back. Because the syncs on Gen4 tranny take about 1/2 inch more space. And this sync part is the beginning of Gen4 housing (as seen from front towards the back). The same part on Gen3 tranny is about 1/2 inch shorter. And we don't know how to compensate for this.

I tried search to no avail.

Read my post again. It contains the solution and the person to speak to about it. You need the yolk. The swap cannot be done without it. The Woodhouse shifter is not needed for the conversion and has nothing to do with the issue. However, it is a great improvement. It's actually the Woodhouse/MGW shifter but George does not show it on his web site. My car was a Beta tester for it.

 

[deadman]

Read my post again. It contains the solution and the person to speak to about it. You need the yolk. The swap cannot be done without it. The Woodhouse shifter is not needed for the conversion and has nothing to do with the issue. However, it is a great improvement. It's actually the Woodhouse/MGW shifter but George does not show it on his web site. My car was a Beta tester for it.

You can definitely go without truck yolk - there is no issue with the length of the drive shaft unit because there is an accomodation for the difference.

The problem lies in the actual LENTGTH OF THE TRANSMISSION. As I said it's about half inch longer then Gen3 which means that the mounting points for the shifter (whether MGW or stock) are positioned 1/2 inch towards the back of the car. Which causes problem because Gen3 tunnel plastic cover and the mounts underneath won't move with new tranny... obviously... No yolk play any role in this issue...

 

[Viper Specialty]

I will report back on this exact issue. I have 2 TR6060's going into Gen-3's [one coupled to a Gen-3 engine, the other completely Gen-4... but into a 2004 Chassis]

I also have a TR6060 and a T56 laying on the floor, I will measure the distance from the front face to the shifter mounting points, and compare the shifter mechanisms. [Is it possible you have installed a TR6060 with a T56 shifter? Perhaps THAT is where the difference is made up if this actually is the case?]

We will see what I come up with. I was under the impression that the shifter location was the same, but the tailhousing was simply longer.... all of the past experience points to this being correct, as well as the fact that all of the Gen-3 and Gen-4 interior parts are the same, and it wouldn't make much sense to change the chassis designs around for something so simple.

 

[Bobpantax]

You can definitely go without truck yolk - there is no issue with the length of the drive shaft unit because there is an accomodation for the difference.

The problem lies in the actual LENTGTH OF THE TRANSMISSION. As I said it's about half inch longer then Gen3 which means that the mounting points for the shifter (whether MGW or stock) are positioned 1/2 inch towards the back of the car. Which causes problem because Gen3 tunnel plastic cover and the mounts underneath won't move with new tranny... obviously... No yolk play any role in this issue...

You do not seem to understand the fact that I have actually had this done. It was the first swap to be done and it was done in January, 2008. The use of the truck yolk cures the problem that you are talking about by allowing a slight repositioning of the tranny. We initially ran into the same problem. You will have to use the Gen IV shifting mechanism or you can use the shifter mentioned above offered by Woodhouse. There may be others out there but I do not think that they are as good. I suggest that you give Mark Jorgensen a call at Woodhouse next week.

 

[Malu59RT]

This is funny that Bob has said the same thing 3 times, and no one is listening to him.

 

[usurbrain]

Hey Bob... can you repeat that again?

 

[SquadX]

This is funny that Bob has said the same thing 3 times, and no one is listening to him.

LOL it is. Ask for help, you get it and dont even realize it.

 

[Ray W]

This is funny that Bob has said the same thing 3 times, and no one is listening to him.

That's because Bob refuses to give him the "right" answer.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The shifter in the Gen4 car is different to make up for this, when we helped with the MGW shifter this was addressed and made to work with Gen3 and 4 cars, The Gen3 clutch assembly is 1/8" shallower than the Gen4 and there ends up being a little difference in that slave movement although it was not an issue.

The truck yolk is needed to match the output splines on the 6060 as the Gen 3 is different.

 

[Bobpantax]

Thanks for posting Mark. Maybe now he will believe me. LOL.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Since Mark confirmed what I suspected before getting a chance to look them both over side by side, in that the shifter is different to accommodate for this, it raises the question again:

His fitment issue appears to be related to his choice of shift mechanism. I suspect he bolted a T-56 shifter onto a TR6060 and bolted it into a Gen-3 car, hence why is it too far back. The TR6060 shifter surely reaches further forward to make up this difference. It would be interesting for him to confirm or deny that is what actually happened.

His problem does not appear to be at all related to his driveshaft or yolk. If the yolk slipped onto the output splines, then he should be using the right one.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

OK correction on my statement, the splines are the same but the diameter is different! The 6060 uses a thicker walled yolk as the Ram does and if you use the T56 yolk the transmission will leak out the larger diameter rear seal!

 

[Bo knows]

Can someone tell me the advantages of putting the gen 4 trans into an earlier Viper. I do have some issues with my gen 2 trans. Thanks !!

 

[Bobpantax]

The Gen IV transmission is more robust since it was built to withstand 600 HP with wiggle room. It has a bit more neutral gear rattle.

 

[deadman]

Mark, thanks for some clarification on the shifter. FYI this is the same guy for whom we've got a supercharger from you, then he got another viper and decided 1000TT would be what he wanted.

As for the rest of some guys in this thread - try to read and think before posting a judgement. I really don't know would a yolk affect position of the shifter mount hole.... when there is an engine block, a clutch housing and tranny in their respective order... pretty much a fixed length values directly attached to each other.... take it easy...

 

[Bobpantax]

You know something? I reread your original post and you are right. I jumped on you too quickly. Please accept my apology. ( Apology also extended to JDavis above.) The Woodhouse/MGW shift mechanism that I Beta tested and which is now sold by Woodhouse fixed the problem you describe by changing the angle of the bend in the vertical element of the shifter. The yolk cured another problem that we ran into which is described by Mark Jorgensen above.

 

[Nine Ball]

Mark J, could you explain the differences (or show pics) of the differences between this Woodhouse/MGW shifter and the OEM Gen 4 shifter?