Matt Houston
Enthusiast
Reuter's says a major obstacle has been cleared in merger talks. Here's the latest.
GM/Chrysler Merger Update
- Thread starter Matt Houston
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Austin
Enthusiast
I will cry if they merge. I will cry if/when there is no more Viper. Ugh.
Sellshomesdrivesviper
Enthusiast
Its going to happen real soon. The big news will be VCA members buy the Viper line from Dodge.
Sellshomesdrivesviper
Enthusiast
I'm in for a hundred large and a ACR to boot.
Let's see 100 large is like 100K then as I believe there are around 5k memnbers in the VCA (providing all buys in) that come out to 500M
I thought the viper line could be had for 100-150M I think we need bail-out money too.
Sellshomesdrivesviper
Enthusiast
Let's see 100 large is like 100K then as I believe there are around 5k memnbers in the VCA (providing all buys in) that come out to 500M
Sorry Kenny, I was in for a larger percentage so I could be boss.
MoparMan
Enthusiast
I'm guessing that the Viper line will be sold to a separate entity before any merger is finalized. Currently, I believe the buyerof the Viper will be Daimler.
Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
I would be suprised. They did not even like the idea of the ME4-12 because it went faster than a Mercedes! 
Kenny, you will need a assistant in a second Viper to be able to baseline your research off of and to race against. Count me in!
Robert
Kenny, you will need a assistant in a second Viper to be able to baseline your research off of and to race against.
Count me in!Robert
Sellshomesdrivesviper
Enthusiast
I'd expect the whole company for that much, not just the Viper line.
AviP
Enthusiast
Ahhh, but there's the pensions and the guarantees and the crap that never goes away. Everytime there's a layoff, there is also a compromise with the UAW that doesn't make economical sense in the long term and leads to another layoff.
GM, Ford and Chrysler need to wake up to American needs instead of making everything bigger. All their initiatives seem to be short term. Just look at the Jeep lineup: Commander, Compass, Grand Cherokee, Liberty, Patriot and Wrangler. Is there really that much of a market for a 6-vehicle lineup? Can you honestly decide why you would choose one from the other? Who goes to the dealer and looks at specs of 1" more legroom v/s 2" more of legroom? IMHO, these companies are just grasping at anything to give them a short term blip in sales.
If efficiency is the only reason for a GM-Chrysler merger, that is already a doomsday prophecy. Even the likes of Toyota is suffering but the strong yen is a contributor too. It will be sad to see the Viper go, but I will be glad to own a piece of history: the supercar of my era.
Uh Oh, this is not good....
Battle Royale: GM vs. Chrysler - Autoblog
Battle Royale: GM vs. Chrysler - Autoblog
Oh no, you mean Ferrari's offer wasn't high enough? We have to fall back on the previous offer from the Indian company???
Ted
slaughterj
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Sounds right that it will be sold before the merger, but the rumblings still seem oriented on Saleen as a buyer or at least involved moreso than currently. That might be alright for the Viper, to have a closer tie-in with Ford, where the Viper doesn't have competitors (GT not being made, Mustang's different) versus GM with the Vette and no need for the Viper.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Anyone know which models they are talking about?
DETROIT (Reuters) - A potential merger between General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler LLC could result in the closing of at least four more of the No. 3 U.S. automaker's factories while 16 of its vehicle models were at risk of being eliminated, according to a study by Grant Thornton.
A merger between GM and Chrysler is the best option under the circumstances, said Kimberly Rodriguez, principal of Grant Thornton's automotive practice.
"It's not optimal but positive in the current environment," she said.
GM has been in talks with Cerberus Capital Management since September about a merger with Chrysler LLC, the struggling U.S. automaker owned by Cerberus.
The study said Chrysler has 26 vehicle models, of which only seven were core.
The study also estimates that about $6 billion to $10 billion in costs could potentially be taken out of a merged company.
(Reporting by Poornima Gupta, Editing by Phil Berlowitz)
DETROIT (Reuters) - A potential merger between General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler LLC could result in the closing of at least four more of the No. 3 U.S. automaker's factories while 16 of its vehicle models were at risk of being eliminated, according to a study by Grant Thornton.
A merger between GM and Chrysler is the best option under the circumstances, said Kimberly Rodriguez, principal of Grant Thornton's automotive practice.
"It's not optimal but positive in the current environment," she said.
GM has been in talks with Cerberus Capital Management since September about a merger with Chrysler LLC, the struggling U.S. automaker owned by Cerberus.
The study said Chrysler has 26 vehicle models, of which only seven were core.
The study also estimates that about $6 billion to $10 billion in costs could potentially be taken out of a merged company.
(Reporting by Poornima Gupta, Editing by Phil Berlowitz)
GTSnake
Enthusiast
The only models that would complement GM is Jeep and Minivan. Everything else would be an overlap.
Well if the merger happens and it looks like it could. I cannot believe for the life of me that they would not get rid of Buick-Pontiac-GMC as I think it could be replace by Dodge all on it's own. There is nothing more boring than those three. Come to think of it if you remove the corvette, Chevrolet is boring too.
I read a couple of weeks back in the Detriot free press that when all said and done logically GM should look like Cadillac-Chevrolet-Dodge-jeep-Saturn. Please kick me so I can wake up from this crappy nightmare!
I still think that Mercedes, at some point, will acquire the Viper; improve it's tech a bit and offer it as a streetable race car to a limited number of purists like us. As JonB and I posted a few weeks ago, the execs at Mercedes loved the Viper when they owned Chrysler. They probably love it even more now that it is the unofficial Ring record holder. They could also get back into certain types of racing almost immediately. Might the price go up a bit? Probably. But I do not think it would be by much. One of the first things that Mercedes would probably do is lighten the car. JM2Cs
Well if the merger happens and it looks like it could. I cannot believe for the life of me that they would not get rid of Buick-Pontiac-GMC as I think it could be replace by Dodge all on it's own. There is nothing more boring than those three. Come to think of it if you remove the corvette, Chevrolet is boring too.
I read a couple of weeks back in the Detriot free press that when all said and done logically GM should look like Cadillac-Chevrolet-Dodge-jeep-Saturn. Please kick me so I can wake up from this crappy nightmare!
I concour with the 'nightmare'.
I'm still trying to figure out how cancelling the popular Challenger, that is in production so that you can build a hyped for years and years nonexistant Camaro instead is cost effective or a "smart" thing to do???
Ted
MoparMan
Enthusiast
What I've been told is that Saleen's proposal to Chrysler involves a plan whereby he would allow Viper owners to invest in the new company to some degree. Saleen would obviously be the majority owner.
gapgap3063
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it's a damn shame gm will kill the viper -they dont want any comp. for the vet. this way they dont have to keep spending money to keep up with our superior viper! look what they did to just match the current 2008 viper supercharged their inferior vet. (zr1) it's also really sad because the viper is selling! almost 50% to 80% sales increase for 2008! the viper kicked the vet's ass from 1992 to 2005 then gm came out with the z06 which just matched the viper. then dodge fired back with the current model that kicked the vet's ass again. then gm comes back with this $100,000.00+ zr1-vet just to match the viper again. but they cant! park a viper next to a vet anytime and see which one draws the biggest crowd! most people dont even look twice at a vet, but i can drive my 1993 black rt\10 and people make me feel like a movie star! i park next to vet's at autoshows around detroit mi. and always steal their crowd! if they had one! my generation 1 1993 15 year old viper is worth more than a 2007 used vet! that should tell you something! gm hates the viper and that's sad because bob lutz was the father of our car. now he's the enemy! but then again he probably has no say! gm has always sucked! to many chiefs and not enough indians, look for gm to can the new challenger which is also superior in performance and looks to the new camaro, they would in not continue to make it to much comp. for the camaro, again it's just sad,sad,sad, lee made a big mistake promoting eaton over lutz.eaton sold us down the river to that german co. and the 15 billion chryco had at the time. look what happened to quality under the germans! chryco was ahead of benz. in quality at the time of the merger and had more of a portfolio of cars and good solid interior materials. in 2006 my wife bought a 300c and you should see the cheap plastic in the car we paid $38000.00 for! we didnt notice it till we got the car and started to notice how easy the plastic scratches and flimsy it is. this was the result of the germans dictating that chryco go with the lowest bidder. while they put top quality interior materials in their cars. gm will kill chryco. for what? a few market share points by keeping the minivans and jeep. you think gm will keep the superior new ram? thats too much comp. for the chevy and gmc trucks! if anything they need to get rid of pontiac and gmc. and keep chrysler dodge and jeep but they dont want another superior car the 300c which blows the doors off most caddy's and looks better also. i see chryco for 2008 upgraded the interior! in the 300c great! it was needed! but again gm will kill our company! for the 11 billion chryco has. whats the logic in assuming ever chryco car buyer will buy a gm car after they kill chryco? i bet they will lose half the minivan sales chryco currently has, after this takeover to honda and toyota, as a lot of people dont like gm products. me included! remember they couldn't make a decent minivan the entire time they tried! cerberus ***** too! what liars!!!!! just 2 months ago nardelli said they cerberus was backing chryco for the long haul what bull****! he probably was lied to also! cerberus does not give a damn! about detroit or peoples lives. chryco could make it on their own if given the proper time and proper people running it not home depot reject -nardelli lasorda has been reduced to a figurehead they bring him out to lie to us! you know he was pissed when they brought in nardelli and jim press and put them over him! now he's just playing good boy! all of us viper guys need to stick together as our parts could dry up! and support from chryco will be gone! you think gm will support viper nation? i would love to see roger penski buy viper he would be great! and all these people bashing the union did the union choose the leaders of chryco? did the union choose the cheap quality parts suppliers? did the union merg chryco with the germans? the union even gave health concessions with veba, did the union cut cars and lose market share instead of improving the pacifica, magnum, crossfire, the magnum was still selling about 30,000 units a year when they got rid of it, those people wanting a wagon just went to another company! again lost market share the magnum was made on the same line as the 300\charger so they could of easily just cut production of it to just 30,000 and kept the customers for it! you dont improve a company by getting rid of cars you improve what you offer! starting with quality!!!! and design, the pacifica was way to fat looking, the caliber looks like that old voltswagon from the 70's a far cry from the neon which had been improved and had was rebounding. another victim of the germans bad decisions. they got rid of their full size vans dodge had a 15% share of the full size van market till damler killed it! and tried to sell you a rebadged sprinter instead what a joke! they lost that market share! plymouth was just missed managed to nothing! they lost the voyager mini and the customers went to honda \toyota \and others for a low cost minivan customers did not buy the other chryco vans as damler thought they would. chryco went from 15% to 11.5% market share as the result of mismanagement did the union decide to make the new sebring \ avenger? which seems like a design by commitee, did the union make the decission to call a chryco suv the aspen which was a joke of a car! who designed that thing? the aspen should of had drop dead gorgeous looks, i could go on and on, i'm now not in the union anymore, and yes the union is forced to represent the few slackers, but most of the people i worked with came in on time, and did their job! the union didn't fail chryco the idiots and bean counters did, just like bean counters will kill our viper! keep your cars viper owners they are one of a kind!!!! nothing like them exist!!!! and they will be worth alot in the future!!! crying for chryco-jerry p
And thank you for that refreshing viewpoint. I went to the Dealer to show the wife a Durango - you know one of those neat looking SUVs that's in between a Magnum and a Full size SUV. The new Durangos had become FULL sized!!! Didn't even ask how much. The wife walked over to an Aspen and said, "Wow is this ever huge." "Yah," I said, "a monster minivan." Didn;t even ask how much. I doubt either would fit into my garage.
I still can't see the Viper going to GM - they don't want it because it's the REAL competition. If GM shuts down the VIPER then waht would the world say??? "They couldn't beat it so the bought it and killed it." or "The only way GM can get a winner is if they buy all their competition and destroy it."
The Viper has defended it's "World's Fastest Road Course Car" title by doing nothing, not even going back to Germany to stay the winner. Although a complete car collection and GM have attempted to run "rings" around the ACR ... it still took them longer to get all the way around the ring. The ACRs record still stands! GM and vette's second attempt was much improved after so much resetting and practise, but not enough. Oh well. probably another few flights and more setting up, maybe a few more drivers and eventually they'll probably pick up the spit seconds they need. Question is will Dodge let themselves lose??? Will they take a month and boat another ACR to Germany? Can they allow a driver to actually drive the car for awhile so that he can do the driving without having to try getting used to the cars idiosynchrisies while setting the world record? Since it's a street car the driver could use it on the streets for a few days so that he'd be more comfortable sitting in the car?
Time will tell.
Ted
Ratical2
Enthusiast
I believe they started taking orders on 10-2.... 1st deliveries expected in May of 2009.
Then obviously they could jsut discontinue the no-such-thing-as-a-Camaro in favor of the Challenger.
Chrysler invented the Hemi, the Kcar, the minivan, full time 4wd, Domestic Turbo 4 bangers that beat V8s (not the japanese), retro cars started with the PT Cruiser, and Mustang (no GM starters), the first domestic Powerful V10, etc. I think that if companies merge the new company should fire ALL the GM designers and engineers since they only seem to be able to copy others. They don't seem capable of inventing anything so why keep them and fire the best in the industry?
Ted
Chrysler invented the Hemi, the Kcar, the minivan, full time 4wd, Domestic Turbo 4 bangers that beat V8s (not the japanese), retro cars started with the PT Cruiser, and Mustang (no GM starters), the first domestic Powerful V10, etc. I think that if companies merge the new company should fire ALL the GM designers and engineers since they only seem to be able to copy others. They don't seem capable of inventing anything so why keep them and fire the best in the industry?
Ted
viperbob
Enthusiast
The Viper is a great car but a lot of the others are not so great, and their GM competitors are much better, such as the Cobalt compared to the Caliber - every Auto mag I read agrees. And what about the Sebring? It just came out that it is the worst car in reliability and it looks hideous - the Malibu (and Aura) are not even in the same league. On the otherhand, GM could benefit from the Chrysler/Dodge minivans and Jeep.
Surely the die-hard, one-sided, Mopar fans will not agree but unbiased people will agree that GMs lineup is better; however, the appearance factor is subjective and cannot be argued with - some like one model over another on looks alone.
Surely the die-hard, one-sided, Mopar fans will not agree but unbiased people will agree that GMs lineup is better; however, the appearance factor is subjective and cannot be argued with - some like one model over another on looks alone.
