Has anyone noticed...

[Warfang]

Right after the Detroit meeting... there has been a steady stream of posts with "Now I'm REALLY starting to like this new coupe," and, "The coupe looks soooo much better when you see it in person. " My favorite: "pssst... it'll really be released with 1,000,000HP, but DC is just waiting for chevy to show it's hand first" wink wink nudge nudge

Funny... BEFORE this meeting, everyone who saw it said it was a dog, in appearance and performance. "Toyota" comes to mind. Heck, just look at the all the posts in the rt/10-GTS forum for people wanting the gtsr/comp coupe styling. Now after a meeting with German, Inc... glowing reviews abound! Call me cynical, but I think DC threw their weight around and wanted "plants" to start a whisper campaign that all is goooood... or no more perks and elbow rubbing with execs and engineers. As long as you can fool some of the people some of the time... that translates to sales.

But hey, maybe at the meeting DC showed the "real" GTS, and the dog they've been parading around is really part of the biggest corporate sucker-punch ever created to chevy and ford.

...or maybe not

 

[BigCarrot]

It's a great looking car, and I'd bet a grand that it doesn't come out with 500hp!

 

[Warfang]

It's a great looking car, and I'd bet a grand that it doesn't come out with 500hp!

It's still a frankenstein of a car.

 

[Paul Hawker]

At Detroit we had the chance to see the show car, and another, almost production model. After walking around the car, sitting inside, opening the hood and trunk, We gave our imputs, and most were encouraged by the changes Dodge made after VOI attendees gave their input at VOI.

They listen to constructive criticism, and even whinning. It was apparent they have some constraints, but sincerely have the desire to make a great car.
Yes...they want more HP and torque, but it is not an instant thing. We all want instant gratification, but sometime it is difficult to deliver every time.

I personally liked the new Coupe. It was explained why the Show car street coupe was unable to be produced, even though it looked fantastic. If it was raised to street legal height, put on production tires, and stripped of it's racing wing/splitter, it would not have the same impact as the slammed, huge tired, splittered no headroom show car. It would also be too wide and too long to make a daily driver.

I have spoke to several dealers, and there are lots of orders in house for the new Coupe. Most have more deposits than they will get cars for the first year.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Call me cynical, but I think DC threw their weight around and wanted "plants" to start a whisper campaign that all is goooood... or no more perks and elbow rubbing with execs and engineers.

Dear Cynical -

I see you are a newbie to both Viper ownership and these boards. Welcome. Apparently it didn't take long for you to brush up on your insults, especially since the obvious implication is that there is "deception by consensus" by nothing less than the VCA leadership (your regional presidents and national board). Pretty impressive for somebody that hasn't even changed their oil yet.

Now, let me set the record straight: I have only seen a couple people that were at those meetings post ANYTHING about the coupe - positive or otherwise. Myself, I posted some pictures and left it to everyone else to decide what they thought. I also noted that I, for one, don't plan to order a Coupe. The rest of the comments are from people that have seen it at the various auto shows and now Barrett-Jackson. Not officers, not "insiders", and not people that have rubbed elbows with the DC brass. So your implication is not only ridiculous, but totally off-base considering the facts.

Let's get one last thing straight: No amount of "elbow rubbing" will make the Coupe a better (or worse) car than it is. I thought Ralph Gilles was a great guy, and I think the Charger is a horrific mistake in badging. Nice car, but better named the Coronet or something - not "Charger". And from my time as a VCA officer (fifth year at the local level, first at national), I can say that the work FAR outweighs any meager benefits. The other officers I met are standup guys and would voice their opinions no matter how many free cookies DC hands them at the box lunch. Any implication otherwise is just plain stupid.

 

[doctorbob]

Excellent response Chris. Time to take the forum back and get these posers out of here.

 

[WANTED]

Excellent response Chris. Time to take the forum back and get these posers out of here.

AMEN

 

[SNAKEPILOT]

Well said Chris!

 

[FLOORIN04]

as always Chris well typed

 

[SRT10]

Quote from newbie who just bought a 97GTS

Funny... BEFORE this meeting, everyone who saw it said it was a dog, in appearance and performance.

Funny...but I was at VOI when it first came out to a standing ovation! No one said it was a dog in appearance or performance. Where do you come up with this BS? As a matter of fact people were putting deposits on the car based on their experience at VOI.

 

[Warfang]

hmm... and now everyone gets defensive.

I didn't know that I needed to know how to change the oil on a viper to have an opinion. Guess I'll wait until I get the service manual before making any more posts.

I made an observation that happens to be correct (a sharp rise in compliments for the coupe came after the meeting)... my conclusions as to why may or may not be correct. I've been wrong as much as I've been right, but I'm not going to tip toe around because I don't have 3,000 posts, or 10 years of viper ownership under my belt. It's sad some of you think so.

 

[Cris]

... Funny... BEFORE this meeting, <font color="red"> everyone who saw it said it was a dog, in appearance and performance.</font>

Now you wouldn't be exagerating here would you? I mean not one single person at VOI thought it was nice. Not even one??? And I presume you have interviewed each and every attendee to obtain this absolute opinion.

I say loosen up. When you speak for others and then declare the same people as stool pigeons for the DC executives, then you should expect to receive some defensive response. I mean what else did you expect?

 

[Warfang]

... Funny... BEFORE this meeting, <font color="red"> everyone who saw it said it was a dog, in appearance and performance.</font>

Now you wouldn't be exagerating here would you? I mean not one single person at VOI thought it was nice. Not even one??? And I presume you have interviewed each and every attendee to obtain this absolute opinion.

I say loosen up. When you speak for others and then declare the same people as stool pigeons for the DC executives, then you should expect to receive some defensive response. I mean what else did you expect?

You got a point there, Cris. Two points actually. I'm sure a good number of people do like the looks, and of course nobody likes to be called a stool pigeon. That said, are you saying that everyone loves the coupe, and are you denying that the lovefest began AFTER Detroit? Maybe it's just a coincidence, or people settling for what they have, or the looks grow on some people. I don't know. I'm no psychic.

Anyways, I appreciate you voicing your opinions without questioning my right to express mine, as dumb as you might think that opinion is. God bless America! Heck, sometimes we all need to just shut up and drive.

 

[C O D Y]

Silly me.... I know better than to post over here, but I do like the beatings. OK, not trying to stir the ***, however with the GT and the Z06 we could be sucking hind *** real soon.

The Gen 1's and 2's DOMINATED in it's price point by being the leader in the 3 most important categories.... looks, power and performance, and exclusivity. Win those 3 classes and you have yourself a sure thing.

The GT being 150K is a little out of the new coupes price point, however it is an american built sports car so it will always be the vipers competition. And please do not tell me that the GT is going for over 200K so it doesn't count... remember the 1st year of the vipers? In 1992 the viper was selling for over double sticker +! Yes, Double Sticker and more!

Furthermore, the new Z06 (near 80K?) has the about the same curb appeal and performance as the gen 3's, so the viper only wins in the exclusivity department. There are always going to be the die hard Dodge guys who see the vehicles through their special glasses, but I'm going to tell you how it is.

We've been king of this hill for a long time..... the gen 3 SRT-10 is a great car, however it and the new coupe will not dominate like the vipers have in the past. Just think, how would the gen 3 viper would look if the only thing it was going up against was a Gen 4 vette? It's has less to do with the new viper being a bad design or anything like that... it has much more to do with the fact that the competition has made major changes and are worthy opponents. Our time alone at the top is over. It's going to get crowded.

 

[Warfang]

Silly me.... I know better than to post over here, but I do like the beatings.

Beatings build character.

I think the viper invokes so much passion, that everyone thinks their opinion is more important than anyone else's. I've been guilty of that myself. Then again... some people are just @$$e$. Also... guity here.

As long as we vent our frustrations here and not beat our kids/spouses.... we'll be oook.

 

[Joseph Houss]

A little late to the party but....

Chris is absolutely correct Warfang. Any suggestion that there was "suggestive behavior" by our friends at Dodge is SO out of line. On the other hand, they rely on us to critique every aspect of new product and do in fact, follow through on many of our suggestions.

But, one thing I can say first hand, is that I notice MANY more visitors to the auto show at the Coupe display (3 to 4 rows of gawkers... every minute I was there), than to the Z06 display.

The bottom line is, based on the fact you first posted to this topic (.."Right after the Detroit meeting... there has been a steady stream of posts with "Now I'm REALLY starting to like this new coupe,..."), it DOES look awesome in person, and I'm sure the reason so many are posting positive remarks is that with the changes that were made to the rear of the Coupe, after OUR comments at VOI, the car IS sweeeeet!

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Sorry, I still think it is a poor excuse for a "New Car". It is a '97 stuck onto an SRT. And I still don't get the rear quarter wrapping around the tail lights. I guess I have to see it at the NY Auto Show.

Andrew

 

[05RedSRT]

"Furthermore, the new Z06 (near 80K?) has the about the same curb appeal and performance as the gen 3's"

Are you joking? The new Z06 does not even come close to looking as good as the SRT10. It looks like exactly what it is, a nice looking corvette.

 

[rbarta]

"Furthermore, the new Z06 (near 80K?) has the about the same curb appeal and performance as the gen 3's"

Are you joking? The new Z06 does not even come close to looking as good as the SRT10. It looks like exactly what it is, a nice looking corvette.

I think they both look nice. However, the regular C6 looks awfully plain, like they designed the Z06 first then took off the fender flares, snout opening, more aggressive front opening, and added very vanilla wheels to get std C6. The Z06 does not come in convertible however and that is a requirement for me.

BTW, who says the Z06 is going to be 80K, I'm hearing $66K but no price has been released yet. They will have options like Nav, XM and OnStar -- you really need those in a performance car.

 

[Warfang]

A little late to the party but....

Chris is absolutely correct Warfang. Any suggestion that there was "suggestive behavior" by our friends at Dodge is SO out of line. On the other hand, they rely on us to critique every aspect of new product and do in fact, follow through on many of our suggestions.

I've already said I think Cris has very valid points, especially my quickdraw at finger-pointing. I was just sharing my opinion as I saw it, and wanted to discuss it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have a right to voice it to begin with.

It's the people that think you need to have thousands of posts or the ability to change oil before you can voice controversial opinions that bug me. This IS a forum, not a lovefest.

 

[VPRVENM97]

It's the people that think you need to have thousands of posts or the ability to change oil before you can voice controversial opinions that bug me. This IS a forum, not a lovefest.

Just think of what you can post after you get an oil change under your belt.
The possibilities would be endless!

BTW, I don't have 1000 posts yet so disregard all of the above.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

"Furthermore, the new Z06 (near 80K?) has the about the same curb appeal and performance as the gen 3's"

Are you joking? The new Z06 does not even come close to looking as good as the SRT10. It looks like exactly what it is, a nice looking corvette.

Looks are always subjective but the cars are pretty similar looking no matter who designed the car first. Is the Viper $10,000 better looking? Not in my opinion.

 

[Cris]

When I was at the show the amount of people around the Z06 was much greater. That was fueled in part by having an orator talking publicly about the Z06 at that time and no one at the Viper exhibit. The vette exhibit was also much nicer. Showed the car, the inner workings and a C6R race car. That said I do not believe crowd size is a true measure of success or potential. The Mustang exhibit had even more people.

The Z06 and the Viper will both be very limited production models. When annual sales in the 2000 to 5000 range are expected, just how many of those crowded around are actually buyers?

BTW, at both exhibits all I heard was positive praise. Me thinks the public at large likes them both, but can afford neither.