Header question, challenge ?

[Mike Adams]

Who out their can post at prove their power improvement fromjust headers and cat back (k&n's are allowed) I would like to know before and after numbers. YOU MUST STILL HAVE CATS ON THE CAR. I am really interested in the differences. I have tested 5 different headers and have found very little diffence between them. Best thing about my testing is they where all on the same car making my comparison a little more even. But I would like to see other's results.

If anyone wants to know which headers I tested feel free to email me at [email protected]

 

[Tom Welch]

Mike,

I have tested a few different brands in the past (3) years, but seeing that I am a Belanger Dealer, some folks might think my findings are biased.

In order to correctly test a Viper exhaust system, the car must be driven..in an aggressive manner I might add, for at least 400 miles in order to "re-learn" the aspects of each exhaust system. It's not as easy as taking a few boxes of headers and some tools to the dyno shop.

If anyone wants to see my results, please contact me.

Tom

 

[Mike Adams]

I know that Tom I have had these exhuast systems on at least six months then sold them as USED to conduct my test so I could get the feel and sound of each. I interested in actual proof of headers and how the work like SVP which I have not tested, MOPAR, and some of the others that may claim 25 rwhp.

Plus Tom I noticed you recommend no cats. I interest in with cats.

 

[Mike Adams]

Here is a recent post from 1 bad boy (hope this doesn't offend you)

Just finished installing the TD rockers, Bellanger Headers, high flow cats, Flywheel and Vec 1 today and the numbers are as follows :
451.8 Horsepower and 487 Ft. Lbs torque I am still messing with the Vec 1 and will be able to run at track next month.
I was going to post with just the headers but the dyno was booked and I was anxious to drive it.
Next will be the Supercharger.

Chris.

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Mike,

I'm curious what you like from the sound and fit and finish point of view.

When I was on the West Coast at Apex - I saw two Viper up on the rack with cat-back systems - one with the Bellanger and one with the Corsa. I thought the fit, finish and tip quality of the Corsa to be far superior.

I have the full HMS exhaust with no cats.

 

[Mike Adams]

As for as fit and finish the corsa has been the best as far as cat back. I Borla gave me nothing but greif as far headers went, and Cat back wasn't neer as good.

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

As far as performance - I would guess the top headers TNT, B&B, HMS, Bellenger, etc. all are very similar.

Personally - I think ease if install, fit & finish (looks) and cost play a more inportant role than 2-3 HP.

I had my HMS headers JetHot coated and I am very pleased with the looks.

 

[GENIIGTS]

Mike,having been an owner of a 3" Corsa system I'm glad you only said FIT and FINISH was superior because now that I'm experiencing the sound from my MOPAR exhaust there is no comparison.

 

[Mike Adams]

I never offer opinions on sound as that is only in the ear of the beholder.

Now come on guys SHOW ME THE MONEY where are the numbers ?

 

[onerareviper]

Sound is absolutely in the ear of the beholder. I think the sound of Mopar/Borla is so-so, and the Corsa rocks.... That being said, I found out the cat also has a big effect on sound. For example, on my '98 GTS I didn't really like the sound of the Corsa with no cats - to ratty, especially at idle. After I added high-flow cats, wow!!! Sounds incredible. I'm sure headers make a difference as well....

 

[Mike Adams]

Maybe it's all a myth HMMMMM

 

[Jack B]

I installed the complete Balenger headers and 3" exhaust system with no cats. It was like installing a factory system, everything fit perfect. The only holdup was making the replacement pipe for the cat. I don't believe any of the manufacturers can sell a cat-less system.

The car's best NA hp was 444. What is also of interest is how fat the area under the torque curve(on bottle) is relative to a car without headers. Take a look at viper on bottle without headers, the hp/torque is close to a car with headers, however, the power peaks very quickly and then heads south.

 

[Mike Adams]

Does anyone have the CDI headers ? What the heck do they do ?

 

[Marv S]

They can and often do - for off road use only, of course.

Balanger makes a straight through cat replacement pipe that's on a lot of Viper race cars.

I don't believe any of the manufacturers can sell a cat-less system. /quote]

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Does anyone have the CDI headers ? What the heck do they do ?

Take a lot more money out of your pocket!!

 

[Jack B]

Marv:

I don't think you will find a cat replacement pipe from Balenger. Most vipers with a cat-less Balenger system have had a pipe fabricated to bypass the cats. It is not that difficult, a muffler shop with 3" dies can fab the piece.

 

[Hissses]

Mike Adams, If interested I will be happy to post Numbers for the improvement with headers and cats over stock with corsa and smooth tubes. I had the car dyno'd and did SPL readings before starting these mods so I could see Hp/TQ and noise differances for myself.

 

[Marv S]

Maybe Ballanger only sells those cat blanks to local AZ Vipers when they can do the install at their shop.

One local member got his Ballanger system 3 years ago that included a bolt-in cat blank - that he uses at the track and when he wants to wake up the crowd at the Pavillions car show.

Another AZ Company, SVP, also sold a total system that included an optional bolt-on cat blank.

There’s a pic in this pdf file: http://members.aol.com/azviper1/svpcat.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20000612155925/http://members.aol.com/SVPViper/Racing/exh.html

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

The Belanger system can be bought with 4 Walker Race Bullet mufflers, not quite as loud as catless, but close.(I've been heard almost 2 miles away at WOT)The length of the muffler bolts in perfectly to the system--where the cats were. The other 2 go in the back. Jegs sells the mufflers. I think they're around $30 each. You should be able to get a 2-3" straight pipes from a muffler shop in there for less than $30 dollars. The Belanger system fit like a glove----4 hours, start to finish

Steve

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

CDI no longer makes headers for the Viper. The market was too small for them.
In my experience, Corsa has the best sound, but yes, sound is very subjective. I've only had a couple customers wish the Corsa was louder. The rest really loved the sound, pitch, and volume, and the fit and finish is certainly hard to beat!

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

CDI no longer makes headers for the Viper. The market was too small for them.

No, The price was to high for us! Hence no business for them.

 

[NJVIPER]

Marv...Interested, but no pictures appear when I go to the website.

 

[Marv S]

SVP (Dave Schotz/Jerry Sawyer) is no longer selling go-fast Viper items, exhaust, pulleys, etc. and, as such, their website is nla.. Dave lost the faith and got a Z/06 and auto-x’s a lot . Maybe he’ll be back......

The link I posted is from some archive server that keeps copies of way old web pages, but they don’t save the images. gotta save space, i guess. Maybe mp or someone knows of another archive source that might save pics also.

So..... I scanned and made a pdf file from a printed page of a web page I have kept over the years in my Viper library . That way you could see the pic of the cat blank. Just open the pdf link and you’ll see the pics from the web page.

This was to illustrate that vendors Have offered Viper exhaust systems, header to tail, w/o cats. SVP offered a bolt-in blank pipe so you could R&R the cats at will. (Just note the disclaimer of “off road use only” ) Ballanger has fabricated such pipes also. B&B can do it. So just talk to your favorite fabricator for such an item if you want one.

The header, ahh, "discussions" between Jedi Tom & Dave SCCA Schotz on the OLD WebBBS Viper Board were Classic. .....

Marv...Interested, but no pictures appear when I go to the website.

 

[Snake Bitten]

So said Hissses

Mike Adams, If interested I will be happy to post Numbers for the improvement with headers and cats over stock with corsa and smooth tubes. I had the car dyno'd and did SPL readings before starting these mods so I could see Hp/TQ and noise differances for myself.

Precisely what did you do? Installed headers and removed the stocker cats...then dyno and compare to your baseline with Tubes/Filter and Corsa Catback?!?

If so...the question is how much is attributed to removing the cats, and how much to the headers???

Or are you volunteering to bolt on headers...dyno...then remove the cats...dyno?!?

Your 1997 will see gains from headers, as your stock exhaust "manifolds" do not flow like a 1998 and up stainless steel shorty street header...

 

[Hissses]

Snake Bitten, I had the car dyno'd last saturday with the Corsa,smooth tubes,K&N's on. I just bought a set of Belanger Headers and Randon Tech cats. As soon as I get them installed and some miles on the system I am going to re dyno the car and check the sound levels again.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

CDI headers, do a search long thread about a year and 1/2 back. Headers were never made by CDI just for CDI. Proto type was made by Bondio Fab - excellent quality - you get what you pay for. CDI had their production units built by another welding shop because they felt Bondio was expensive. Dan Cragin works with Andy and CDI. I would expect thes headers can be purchased via Dan.

 

[Fast Freddy]

4 whatever it is worth, i am very happy with the fit and finish of my exhaust system. i have never had any codes or leaks in the 2,000 miles i have been driving it. it brought the heat temps in the door sills and elsewhere way down. i do have the ability to take my cats out when i road race and replace them with a straight pipe. unfortuantely i have not done this yet as i am still waiting (8 months now) on my road race brake kit from dilusi motorsports. the only complaint i have about my exhaust system is the smell the cats give off when i get on it. as 4 the sound it is way better outside the car. louder and a better tone 2. inside the car the the noise level is just a little louder than it was b4. absolutely no drone though. which is good because i hate that. as 4 performance as soon as i drove my car after the install i could immediately feel the difference in power in the way the g load pushed me into the seat. as 4 dyno results i picked up 31 rwhp.

 

[Moundir]

I have an 02 and would like to know that if doing a cam will I see more gains from the headers? Or should I just spend that $$ on 1.7 rockers instead?? Also how much hp and tq gains are you guys seeing by eliminating the cats (for off road use only)

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

Mike, I think that you should send your car to DLM ASAP

 

[Tommy]

Who out their can post at prove their power improvement fromjust headers and cat back (k&n's are allowed) I would like to know before and after numbers. YOU MUST STILL HAVE CATS ON THE CAR. I am really interested in the differences. I have tested 5 different headers and have found very little diffence between them. Best thing about my testing is they where all on the same car making my comparison a little more even. But I would like to see other's results.

I dynoed my '01 ACR this past weekend. Put down 435 rwhp and 470rwtq. SAE corrected. A little disappointed. The car made 413/444 stock.