HEADERS AND EXHAUST

[STUGOTS]

I AM LOOKING INTO HEADERS AND EXHAUST SYSTEM AND I LIKE THE B&B PERFORMENCE BUT NOT THE SOUND I WANT A DEEP THROATY SOUND NOT A RICE SOUND BUT DONT WANT TO GIVE UP HP AND TQ TO DO SO ANY IDEAS?

 

[GTS Bruce]

I have archer/cdi headers.Straight pipe to 3" corsa.Sounds euro to me.B&B is deeper.It will never sound like a 4,6,8 or 12 because its a 10.You will get used to the 10 sound.No 10 sounds like rice.BTW STOP SHOUTING AT US. Bruce

 

[STUGOTS]

well if thats the case what adds the most hp???

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

B&B does sound like Rice, sorry to say it, Stu is right !!

I speak of from experience, I had a COMPLETE B&B installed on my car, headers, high flow cats and complete cat back.

I too would rather a different sound...


Jon

 

[STUGOTS]

so 2002 what do you suggest as a header/exhaust system and i dont want cats any ideas?

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

You'll really wish you had the cats on if you ever drive your car with the windows down, or you ever have people following you. I went "no cats" and all my friends said my car "stunk" and they hated being behind it. Made me feel kind of cheap, so I put cats back on. The power gain from them off isnt worth the hassle or stink in my opinion.

I do not have a recommendation for you. I went back to stock exhaust and put a super charger on it. So now I have 600 RWHP and a quiet as stock viper. I am not a fan of noise. But B&B IS rice, sorry it almost made me cry after blowing $3,*** on the complete system to hear my car sound ricey !! Thank god other issues allowed me to be relieved of ownership for the exhaust system. Great company ,and great guys to buy from, just didnt like the sound !!

Jon

 

[STUGOTS]

also i gotta watch what headers i get because im going with the roe racing s/c soon and i dont want to have to cut anything

 

[STUGOTS]

ever heard a borla exhaust or corsa do they also sound like rice?

 

[opnwide]

Try to find someone with Belanger headers. They're made from steel, so they sound different from the SS types. Yes, they're coated. They are a tri-Y design and are designed more for street power than dyno bragging rights. If you plan on big horsepower (ie 600+hp), I'd go with equal, full length headers that have the 5-1 Burns collector. You'll lose torque over a tri-Y setup on a stock system, but the increase in compression or supercharger that these powerlevels demand make this a mute point.
What's your target horsepower?

 

[STUGOTS]

over 750 hp

 

[KenH]

Here is a sound file of my setup. It is Belanger headers, 3" RT HF ceramic cats and 3" Corsa catback. I haven't heard the B&B setup, so not sure how it compares.

http://www.reefcorner.com/images/BelangerCorsa.WAV

--- Ken

 

[Casey]

Borla is what you want! Deep and throaty, especially with the belanger headers, and HF cats! That's what I decided to go with a couple years back and I could not be happier with the rumble!

 

[STUGOTS]

nice sound ken i really like that anyone got a sound clip of borla?

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

By far the meanest sounding exhaust system I've heard is the full Belanger package on a '97 GTS. This particular car only runs one set of 3" Race Bullet mufflers in the back. The older syle cam improves the sound a fair amount. I have this system on our car(Headers,3" pipe,2 sets of mufflers) and have yet to hear a deeper or meaner sounding system. Ken's clip is good, but doesn't really do it justice. Maybe it's hard to get a good reproduction for a sound file. He is also not running anything but the headers from Belanger. When I start our car in the garage, the windows rattle upstairs and neighbors tell me they heard it start from a couple hundred yards away. At WOT, the car just screams and has been heard over 1.5 miles away...by me. My wife was on the highway again.

I would suggest you try to hear some of these systems in person if you can. I've heard just about all of them and will stick with the full Belanger set up--no cats. I get no smell from not running cats. The Belangers bolt up perfectly and can be installed in less than 4 hours with the proper tools. We have over 25,000 miles on our Belangers and have not touched any part of the exhaust system since an initial retorque at 100 miles or so in the spring of 2001.

IMO, anything is better than stock. For starters, while you decide, get rid of the rear muffler. That will definitely improve the sound. That's the first thing I did. Took my muffler shop 30 minutes and cost $30. I had them put the stock tips back on.

Steve

 

[VIPER D]

hey tony
If you pm me i can send you a vid clip of my srt with new mufflers and 2nd set of cats removed. I can't see spending 4-5k for exhaust when for 7k you can get a blower. The mod is like $300 and the sound is insane.


vd..

i am also in ny

 

[Jack B]

I also have the Balenger headers, in addition, I have the Balenger 3" cat-back. I removed the cats and mufflers in the sill and left the resonators in the rear. If you order the Balenger cat-back exhausts and want to remove the cats and mufflers you will need a stub between the the header outlet and the exhausts. You will have to find a muffler shop that has 3" dies.

 

[J DAWG]

Someone said Belanger come coated?

Do they have the 5 to 1 merge collector?

 

[KenH]

The Belanger catback is definitely louder than the Corsa as is the Borla. Your choice depends largely on just how loud you really like it. Belanger with no cats is LOUD. Regarding performance, I think all the catback systems give you about the same HP, so sound is the main decision point.

Someone said Belanger come coated?

Do they have the 5 to 1 merge collector?

The Belanger comes ceramic coated and is a 3-2-1 collector setup as shown below rather than a 5 to 1 setup.

You must be registered for see images

 

[J DAWG]

Thanks for the pic Ken. That really helps. By looking at the pic it seems the Belanger would not flow as well as the B&B or other that have full primaries and end in the 5 to 1.


Any opinion regarding that?


Thanks
John

 

[STUGOTS]

for me its really the loudness if it but i want it as deep as possible the furthest from rice as possible so in that case which cat back do you suggest?

 

[Simms]

B&B does sound like Rice, sorry to say it, Stu is right !!

Really? This is the first time I have heard of this. I was told to go B&B or Borla if I wanted to go deap (and loud), and stay away from Corsa if I don't want a raspy/rice sound.

Bummer, I just ordered a complete B&B system.

 

[STUGOTS]

i just talked to dave at roe racing really really nice guy i spoke with him about a exhaust and header set and he told me B&B headers and roe racing 3' hi flow cats (that only take 1 - 2 hp which is pretty good for cats) and B&B cat back would work fine for me and also that i have to get the 1& 3/4 headers since i plan on getting a roe super charger im glad i can finally put this exhaust thing to rest THANKS ALOT DAVE AND ROE RACING

 

[Simms]

i just talked to dave at roe racing really really nice guy i spoke with him about a exhaust and header set and he told me B&B headers and roe racing 3' hi flow cats (that only take 1 - 2 hp which is pretty good for cats) and B&B cat back would work fine for me and also that i have to get the 1& 3/4 headers since i plan on getting a roe super charger im glad i can finally put this exhaust thing to rest THANKS ALOT DAVE AND ROE RACING

Exactly what I ordered.

 

[STUGOTS]

great choice did you order from roe?

 

[Simms]

great choice did you order from roe?

I bought the headers from a guy that didn't want them at the time (brand new 1 3/4" B&B's) and the rest from Roe.

 

[STUGOTS]

always a good choice going through Roe i go with them with everything i get i have bought quite a few items from them and they are really on point i have not had 1 problem i talked to Sean,Chris and Dave from Roe and all of them are the coolest people, they go out of their way to help you out even if you dident buy the product from them i found out about roe through Chuck Tator who is also a really really cool guy i just hope Roe does a cam when im ready to get one cuz i would much rather buy through them if possible they are considering doing cams i really hope they do i would feel alot more at ease if i got my cam through them

 

[KenH]

Thanks for the pic Ken. That really helps. By looking at the pic it seems the Belanger would not flow as well as the B&B or other that have full primaries and end in the 5 to 1.


Any opinion regarding that?


Thanks
John

I personally don't know about any performance difference between collector types, though I would suppose the 5 to 1 could potentially be better. I have heard of a lot of complaints with fit and leaking with the 5 to 1 collectors which is the main reason that I went with Belanger, especially since I was installing them myself. The size of the collector plus the fact that the tubes have to be clamped in place seem to be the issue. I have also read that the SS headers cause the engine bay to run hotter and that the steel provides a better sound quality than the stainless steel.

Unfortunately, I do not have first hand knowledge on any of those pros and cons, but it is the info I found when I was making my own decision. I will say that the Belangers fit like a glove, were easy to put on and I couldn't be happier with them, plus I got a good deal on them from PartsRack.

 

[J DAWG]

Talked to Belanger this morning and he was explaining the benefits of their design. He said the reason they do the 3-2 design is so the exhaust does not have to compete with the neighboring exhaust. His analogy was to have 5 hoses and attach them all to a funnel. Then let 5 marbles run at the same time and what happens when they get to the funnel(collector). They slow down. With the Belanger he said it allows the exhaust to escape more freely.

Makes since to me. The Belanger also have "D" ports which mimic the exhaust ports on the heads.


ps - Ken sent ya a PM.

 

[JonB]

Talked to Belanger this morning and he was explaining the benefits of their design. He said the reason they do the 3-2 design is so the exhaust does not have to compete with the neighboring exhaust. His analogy was to have 5 hoses and attach them all to a funnel. Then let 5 marbles run at the same time and what happens when they get to the funnel(collector). They slow down. With the Belanger he said it allows the exhaust to escape more freely.

Makes since to me. The Belanger also have "D" ports which mimic the exhaust ports on the heads.

EXACTLY ! And furthermore:

--The off-the-shelf Burns-style collectors designed for V-8 can and do lose torque at lower RPMs.
--The hand-built Belanger collectors use a velocity cone (pickle) to ensure faster flow and higher TQ even at low RPMs. Most ram-jet engines have velocity cone in the middle for the same reason. Air flows faster aroud the outside.
-- Dport exhaust port match is important, less turbulence at exit.
-- Aluminized is lighter
-- Alumanized runs cooler, even BEFORE inside/outside coating
-- This thread began on SOUND: Take a 3' pipe of 304 SS and a 3' of Alumanized and **** em with a hammer.....yous ee WHY the 304 is 'ricey' and high pitched.
Try it with a Titanium piece off a Corsa/Corvette and the pitch is really high.

 

[opnwide]

I love the Belanger hesders that I bought from JonB (awesome street header), but if you're going for 750hp, you need a full race header. This means equal length 1 7/8 tubes ending in a burns 5-1 collector in the SIDESILL. This is not an easy installation, but if you're going for 750hp then easy isn't in your vocabulary.
If you need more help, contact David Weaver at Maxwell Dodge in Austin. He is familiar with this header design and can steer you in the right direction. He's a great guy, and he'll help you out even if he never sells you anything.

[email protected]