I just saw this on Autoblog. Viper gets the Axe

VIPER GTSR 91

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Just got the Viper quarterly today and no mention on the cover about VOI 10 either?? I thought I read here that we would be getting the info packet by March. I would not be surprised at all if the Viper blog is TRUE. Reasons: Most economists say we are in a recession. Chrysler is really hurting financially. Gas is already high and going higher. I just cant see where there will be enough sales with all this to keep the Viper running.
 

MTGTS

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They also say that there's a glimmer of hope that the Viper will hang on to complement the other two muscle cars. But with the car market slowing dramatically, and with Chrysler's sales and market share cratering, there's a lot more internal pressure to get rid of the Viper than to keep it.


So your saying there's a chance...
 

99 R/T 10

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Ok, who is going to shout........................................










APRIL FOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:D:D:D:D
 

wallbanger

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

OKAY,,, but if we do get to keep the viper they need to be working on changes for improvement now.... not in 3-4 years when sales are slowing
 

bluequadcab

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Just got the Viper quarterly today and no mention on the cover about VOI 10 either?? I thought I read here that we would be getting the info packet by March. I would not be surprised at all if the Viper blog is TRUE. Reasons: Most economists say we are in a recession. Chrysler is really hurting financially. Gas is already high and going higher. I just cant see where there will be enough sales with all this to keep the Viper running.
I just read the Viper Quarterly and there is an article on VOI 10, call 800-998-1110 to register or for more info. Also, I read Herb's article and he says they get it and to stop worrying. If you read other articles in the same magazine, the " they get it " line is used again. I agree with Alabaster Mamba.
 

Coloviper

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Recession? Sounds like something created on TMZ. Honestly if it is so bad out there, then why is the unemployment rate still at a very acceptable level and why are people still doing somewhat okay despite and increase in some base costs. More media hype just like Y2K. Turn off the damn TV and stop feeding into this crap!

All it is, the majority of it, is fall out from Greenspan's big economic stimulaus plan disaster with sub-prime lending. A big flaw and had the housing market not slumped and became stupid with lending practicies to people who could not afford such luxuries, the economy would have just accepted the increases in base material products as a correction to bring our costs in line with ALL other countries in the world.

Anyone that works for me and mentioned that damn word, I offer to come over, cut their cable and cancel their newspaper subscription for FREE. I am not seeing a recession in the slightest. Stopped watching the news months ago.

It's as ridiculous as the Viper dying in 08' or 09'. If they have sold every one they have produced AND they don't have them sitting around the lots for long periods of time where they are waiting for incentives to move them, then it is a success. As far as I can see, they are flying off dealerships. Spring fever is around the corner. You won't even be able to find a new one soon, even Venom Red which I feel was a mistake.

Viper will continue to evolve untl the V-10 goes away. Then the Viper will go away. Until then, light em' up!
 

Burntrubber

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

They may keeo it, they may end production...but they will make them for a few more years atleast. When they stop making them and they go up in price I will have to do the same thing when I want another, save up for years and then buy it. I already know I want a 06 B&W coupe...hopefully I can have 2!
 

Bobpantax

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Please read the NHTSA explanation below of how a manufacturer's CAFE computation is done and the penalty process. Unless I am misunderstanding the mathematics, the Viper does not have a very significant impact on the calculation. So, the other federal regulatory changes coming up in the future - and Dick Winkles confirmed that there are some coming up at our Mar a Lago meeting - must be of more significance in calculating the cost of updating the Viper and, consequently,any decision to keep it alive or kill it off. For instance, the 2009 Viper will have a different internal structure for the rear bumper per federal safety regs. I also heard that Nardelli and Press recently, within the past thirty days or so, asked SRT to come up with the numbers needed to make the changes to keep the Viper alive after 2010. This occurred after they both drove the car at speed and got out of the car with big smiles on their faces. I thought that this was a hopeful sign.


How is a manufacturer’s CAFE determined for a given model year?

A manufacturer’s CAFE is the fleet wide average fuel economy. Separate CAFE calculations are made for up to three potential fleets: domestic passenger cars, imported passenger cars and light trucks. The averaging method used is referred to as a “harmonic mean”. The regulatory language describes the calculation as: “the number of passenger automobiles manufactured by the manufacturer in a model year; divided by the sum of the fractions obtained by dividing the number of passenger automobiles of each model manufactured by the manufacturer in that model year by the fuel economy measured for that model.” The numerical example below illustrates the process. Assume that a hypothetical manufacturer produces four light truck models in 2004, where MPG means miles per gallon and GVWR means gross vehicle weight rating measured in lbs:
ModelMPGGVWRProduction Volume
Vehicle A
22
3000
130,000
Vehicle B
20
3500
120,000
Vehicle C
16
4000
100,000
Vehicle D
10
8900
40,000​
Because the Vehicle D exceeds 8,500 GVWR, it is excluded from the calculation. Therefore, the manufacturer’s light truck CAFE is calculated as:
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=Average Light Truck Fleet Fuel Economy

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The 2004 model year light truck CAFE standard is 20.7 mpg therefore the manufacturer is not in compliance.



[SIZE=+1]What is the penalty for noncompliance for a given MY and how is it calculated?[/SIZE]
The current penalty for failing to meet CAFE standards is $5.50 per tenth of a MPG under the target value times the total volume of those vehicles manufactured for a given model year.

Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $590 million in CAFE civil penalties. Most European manufacturers regularly pay CAFE civil penalties ranging from less than $1 million to more than $20 million annually. Asian and most of the big domestic manufacturers have never paid a civil penalty.

For MY 2002, five imported passenger car fleets, including BMW, Daimler Chrysler, Fiat, Lotus and Porsche are projected to fail to meet the 27.5 mpg passenger car CAFE standard. In addition, two light truck fleets, including BMW and Volkswagen are projected to fail to meet the light truck CAFE standard of 20.7 mpg.

When NHTSA finds that a manufacturer is not in compliance, it notifies the manufacturer. Surplus credits generated from the three previous years can be used to make up the deficit. Using the example from above, the manufacturer may use credits from any of the previous three model years (2001, 2002, or 2003). Credits generated in the furthest out model year (2001) would be used first, followed by any generated in 2002 and finally 2003. If there are no (or not enough) credits available, then the manufacturer can either pay the fine, or submit a carry back plan to the agency. In the example, the hypothetical manufacturer’s CAFE was 19.27 mpg for model year 2004. In that year, the standard was 20.7 mpg. The fine is calculated as:

(20.7 - Average Fuel Economy)*10.0 * $5.50* Production Volume = Total Fine
(20.7- 19.27) *10.0* $5.50 * 350,000 = $27,527,500

If the manufacturer decides to make up the difference in the following three years instead, they must file a carry back plan with NHTSA. A carry back plan describes what the manufacturer plans to do in the following three model years (2005, 2006 and 2007) to make up the deficit credits. NHTSA must examine and approve the plan. The total number of credits that must be made up are:

(20.7 – Average Fuel Economy)*10.0 * Production Volume = Total Credits
(20.7 – 19.27) *10.0* 350,000 = 5,005,000

The manufacturer can make up deficit credits by producing a fleet of vehicles that exceeds the standard at that time. For example, suppose the manufacturer submits plans to build the following light trucks in 2005 model year:

ModelMPGGVWRProduction Volume
Vehicle A
22
3000
100,000
Vehicle B
20
3500
80,000
Vehicle D
10
8900
55,000
Vehicle E
25
2800
150,000​

In this model year, the manufacturer has quit making one model (Vehicle C) and introduced a new model (Vehicle E). Because Vehicle D has a GVWR in excess of 8,500 lbs, it is excluded from the calculation. Therefore, the manufacturer’s CAFE is calculated as:

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= Average Fuel Economy​
Since the light truck standard is 21.0 mpg in 2005, the manufacturer has exceeded the standard and generated excess credits:

(Average Fuel Economy –21.0) *10.0* Production Volume = Total Excess Credits
(22.69-21.0) *10.0* 330,000 = 5,577,000.

These excess credits generated in 2005 model year cover the deficit from the 2004 model year with a surplus of 572,000 that can be used in later model years.
 

PatentLaw

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Mr. McElroy should not give up his day job as a janitor at the local school. Silly man.

Why not just get rid of all the most notable cars that Chrysler has? Heck, they were going to have to be redesigned anyway at one time or another.

And the Viper helps sell other vehicles and gets free advertising for Dodge, he states.....

He is internally inconsistent in his argument. He has no point.
 

GTSnake

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I don't think you guys really get how seriously bad shape Chrysler is in. If you lived in Detroit you would see hundreds of thousands laid off and a one state recession. When I travel to other states I don't see the type of economic meltdown Detroit has gone through in the last few years. The difference between this time and all the speculation of a program cancellation in the past is the shrinking market share that Chrysler went through under DCX, high gas prices and the main variable, Cerberus. They are trying to cut costs in every corner. You have no idea how desperate they are.

All I can say is hang on to your cars boys. They will be collectors soon...
 
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ViperGTS

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>>>If you lived in Detroit you would see hundreds of thousands laid off and a one state recession. When I travel to other states I don't see the type of economic meltdown Detroit has gone through in the last few years<<<
:rolleyes:
Seems to be the right place for an exotic car meeting!
 

ROCKET62

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>>>If you lived in Detroit you would see hundreds of thousands laid off and a one state recession. When I travel to other states I don't see the type of economic meltdown Detroit has gone through in the last few years<<<
:rolleyes:
Seems to be the right place for an exotic car meeting!

Assuming there is still a meeting????:dunno: It's been pretty quiet regarding registration. A quote from the VOI announcement, "We will be sending more information by the beginning of March on how to register, so stay tuned." Last I checked, it's now April and nothing.

Of all the rumours floated, this one seemed to have more bite than bark. Let's hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me as companies do strange things after mergers/buyouts.
 

FE 065

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I don't think you guys really get how seriously bad shape Chrysler is in. If you lived in Detroit you would see hundreds of thousands laid off and a one state recession. When I travel to other states I don't see the type of economic meltdown Detroit has gone through in the last few years. The difference between this time and all the speculation of a program cancellation in the past is the shrinking market share that Chrysler went through under DCX, high gas prices and the main variable, Cerberus. They are trying to cut costs in every corner. You have no idea how desperate they are.

All I can say is hang on to your cars boys. They will be collectors soon...


Chrysler retirees lose life insurance
 

GTSnake

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I'm anticipating that VOI is still going to happen. That's only a few months away. Viper production is a different story however.
 

jmillsUT28

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I hope the VOI is going to happen. I have never been to one and have only owned my Viper for 4 months now. If it is going to happen I better make the most of it!!!

Can someone update us on the VOI??
 

MoparMan

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Re: Viper Cancellation officially confirmed 3/31

Mr. McElroy should not give up his day job as a janitor at the local school. Silly man.

John McElroy is a very respected automotive journalist. He is probably the most credible source to publicly report this to date. Believe what you want, but insulting the messenger will not make his more or less likely to be correct.
 

MoparMan

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I hope the VOI is going to happen. I have never been to one and have only owned my Viper for 4 months now. If it is going to happen I better make the most of it!!!

Can someone update us on the VOI??

I can't imagine VOI.10 not happenning at this point...plan on being in Detroit at the end of the summer.
 

JonB

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I hope the VOI is going to happen. I have never been to one and have only owned my Viper for 4 months now. If it is going to happen I better make the most of it!!! Can someone update us on the VOI??

There is a FORUM here, just for VOI-10

Hotel registration is OPEN

Event agenda is PUBLISHED

Event registration opens tomorrow AM. 4/3/08.........

here is another RUMOR for ya: VOI-10 is not only to be the Perfect 10, but may be Ten and Done.
 

RTTTTed

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If the Viper cost more to build, like the ZR1, then it would only make sense to charge more money when selling it (like the ZR1). Since apparently all '08s are presold they'd have to be completely ******** to quit production on the only car they're pre-sold out on?

Chrysler has many models that they're having trouble seeling at a loss, those are the ones to discontinue, not models that are pre-sold out.

Ted
 

InjectTheVenom

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If the Viper cost more to build, like the ZR1, then it would only make sense to charge more money when selling it (like the ZR1). Since apparently all '08s are presold they'd have to be completely ******** to quit production on the only car they're pre-sold out on?

Chrysler has many models that they're having trouble seeling at a loss, those are the ones to discontinue, not models that are pre-sold out.

Ted

Fully agreed.
 

GTSnake

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Fully agreed.

So you guys are saying to raise the sell price of the Viper? That sounds simple enough but what IF the car doesn't sell out at say $100k or even $95k? Then Chrysler invested millions to redesign and relaunch a vehicle that ends up to be a dud and have nothing to show for it. It would be a huge risk that I don't believe present managment is willing to take.
 

costanZo

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Chrysler needs to do what Chevy did back in late 2004- beginning of 2005. That is come out with a whole new line of automobiles.

The only reason I like Dodge is because of the Viper. I never even used to follow cars as much as I do now. The only reason I got into sports cars and cars in general was from seeing the 1996 Viper GTS on one of my friend's book covers while I was in one of my 6th grade classes in middle school. I believe this was this very picture I saw for the first time..

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After seeing this picture; only being about 12 years old at the time back in 1996 I was amazed at how cool this car was. We didn't have Internet back in those days really so I went to the local Public Library and took out several motor trend/carandriver magazines and anything I could find on this car and did research and became an instant fan of it. It was the biggest thing in my life and even though everyone doubted my ability to buy one I didn't care and told myself I would own one some day... just received the Title yesterday in the mail and the car will be shipped to my house this Monday/Tuesday. Now everyone can shut their mouths who said I would never do it and be able to buy one.. :)

So whether production of the Viper remains or ends that won't change anything in my book. I don't plan to ever sell this car. It's all I ever talked about for the past 12 years so pretty much anyone who knows me "links" this car to my identity somewhat haha. Also, considering my screenname online has been aMcViPeR17 for the past 8 years people know this is my car and I plan on getting a custom Vanity License Plate being: "AMCVPR" So no one steal it! ;)

Anyways, it was because of this car I have such a huge interest in Sports Cars and I think it would be a huge mistake from Chrysler to kill off the Viper. The Viper is the flagship of their company and no other car could ever replace that role in such a way that the Viper has. At the very least they could minimize production so that they could save a lot of money but still sell a limited quantity for lucky buyers and then maybe once the company gets back on track they could start to produce more Vipers per year again so that the Legend still lives on...
 
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mike & juli

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That's a great inspiring sharing, Costanzo! I think that we ALL felt somewhat that way when the Viper first came out, no matter how old we were, THAT car just SMACKED us in the face!!! We also have loved it since its inception...it was always just a 'dream' to OWN one, or just to know someone who HAD one, LOL!!! We don't take it for granted...and are very grateful for how ever many years Vipers there are....or continue to be.
***Don't forget to PM your VIN# to the moderators to upgrade you to Viper Owner!!!***
 

RTTTTed

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I agree that discontinueing the Viper would cost Chrysler most of it's performance image.

I disagree that Chrysler should re=invent their cars.
chrysler invented the Hemi, the Minivan, the Prowler, Retro'd the Challenger, re-invented pick-up styling, diesel pick-ups, K-cars, Turbo 4 bangers, the only North American V10, etc. etc.

What did Chev/GM invent? The vette, to copy Ford's Tbird. All they've invented since then is copies of Chrysler cars. Recently a Hybrid.

GM built the worst automotive V8 (305), failed with the Turbo Trans-am, built the worst trannies in the business and worst rear ends.

Although the vette is competiton for the Viper, Chrysler made the Viper retro to Shelby's Daytona Coupe and not a vette copy.

Ted
 
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