K & N FILTER KIT DYNO RESULTS (pic)

[Y2K5SRT]

Greetings! First and foremost, let me thank PartsRack for their very generous loan of the kit to get dyno tested. We will run it again on April 18th at our Dyno Day to see what it does on different SRT-10's. Here is what it did on mine:

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Now if you look closely at the graph you will see that the difference is minimal at the low end and goes up as the RPM's increase. For example, at 2500 RPM the difference was only 1.8 RWHP and 3.7 RWTQ. But at 5300 RPM the difference was 17.1 RWHP and 17.0 RWTQ.

A couple other notes: I did six dyno pulls total and took the best from stock and with K&N. I was a little disappointed in the stock numbers, as my car dyno'ed higher some 5000 miles ago. Of course in the meantime I had the computer reflashed (lights and bog). As we all know, dynos will yield different numbers on different days. I think my car is running as strong as it ever has, and the drive home with the K&N's felt like it had more power. It also seemed to generate a little more noise up front without the resonator chamber. Not so much the whistle I got on my GTS, but almost more of a throaty rumble. Liked it A LOT!

Would I recommend the K&N upgrade? On the bang-for-the-buck scale, absolutely. It definitely picked up power on the dyno and is a very clean install. And if you don't buy it from JonB at PartsRack, then you are doing yourself a disservice. Not only is his price the best I could find, but as one of the BIGGEST VCA and Viper supporters on the planet, he deserves your business. Thanks again Jon!

 

[AG98RT10]

Thanks for quantifying this. And, don't forget, the power may jump a bit more as PCM "re-learns" the new air flow.

 

[Toddh]

Thanks to both JonB and Chris for working to get a reliable and independent Dyno sheet for all of us sitting on the fence about this. I feel your disappointment about the stock Dyno numbers coming down from 540 miles to 5300 miles and after the "bog" flash. It seemed that popular sentiment was that the reflash did something significant apart from just getting rid of the "bog", though I couldn't honestly say that I felt that way with mine.

Again, the results look persuasive to me and JonB is offering a nice price.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

And, don't forget, the power may jump a bit more as PCM "re-learns" the new air flow.

Interesting you should mention this! I forgot to note that we disconnected the power from the PCM before the stock runs and again before the K&N runs. The K&N install instructions call for disconnecting the ground (why I don't know), so we figured to put them on an even keel and make them both "relearn". The first stock run was 433 RWHP (I almost cried) and the first K&N run was 455 RWHP. The power went up after that.

 

[Mach500]

Chris,

Thank you very much for your always insightful report. Also, congratulations on the good results from your Stratomaro. (I'm sure the power will jump a lot more once the PCM goes through the learning curve.) More importantly, congratulations on your youngest son's successful entry into the Science Olympiad state finals. I'd personally take such a good news over any power-gaining mods on any cars! I hope to have the previlege of meeting you and buying you a drink or two at VOI-8.


JonB,

I didn't mean to get you upset and woundup. As a fellow businessman, I also know the difference between "value" and "cheap." Rest assured, I will order my K&N from you, just as I ordered Corsa from you. In fact, would you ship me one tommorrow? Please?


Soo

 

[jimandela]

nice!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Thanks very much Chris. Your test procedure was done about as precisely and equally as possible. I would bet there will be a lot less contention with the results than say the Vipair thread

Your before K&N results are almost identical with mine so I should expect about the same after installation. Hope to get the feel for it myself soon.

Thanks again.

 

[treynor]

OK, that is indeed interesting. Stay tuned for dyno results on our DC Performance stage I SRT

 

[VIPER D]

what a nice surprise. I bought the filters from partsrack thinking that i would gain 5-10 hp at the flywheel, but 17 rwhp that insane. I love k&n.

Am i correct in thinking that the gain @ the flywheel is 22 hp +/-?



vd..

 

[onerareviper]

Most people use 15% change on 2 wheel drive -> RWHP to Flywheel.

Therefore,

17 RWHP divided by .85 = 20 flywheel HP

460 RWHP divided by .85 = 541 HP WOW!

500 RWT divided by .85 = 588 Tq

 

[LittleFish]

Chris, thanks for the info! I was waiting until your test to order. I'm sure Allen and I will both order soon. I'm going to a local dyno tomorrow for the first time. Should be interesting.

Dave

 

[JonB]

.....JonB, I didn't mean to get you upset and woundup. As a fellow businessman, I also know the difference between "value" and "cheap." Rest assured, I will order my K&N from you, just as I ordered Corsa from you. In fact, would you ship me one tommorrow? Please? Soo

Soo Lee! Thanks for the order, it ships TODAY. $315 delivered. Thanks to Chris for the 'free' to all of us dyno research.

If you re-read my post I said "thanks Mr Lee" for the heads up...I meant it. I did the 'Nichols' research based on your post. YOUR reearch collectively has helped me become realistically competitive and I thank you. Not upset w. you, but certain VCA officers who by-pass PAYING VCA vendors at every chance to save $10. WE vendors (not just me) deserve a chance to be competitive and YOU (for one) and others gave it to me! THANKS

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I'm going to a local dyno tomorrow for the first time.

Dave - Don't forget that ALL paid Kansas City VCA members (that's you!) can have their Vipers dyno'ed for FREE at Dyno Day IV in Kansas City on April 18th. Even includes a catered lunch, courtesy of one of our VCA members and Commerce Bank. All out-of-town Vipers get first dibs on the dyno when they get there, which is anytime between 9:00 AM and 7:00 PM. Dynos includes a full wide band run (air/fuel monitoring) with at least two pulls per car. We hope to see you there!

Chris

 

[Y2K5SRT]

More importantly, congratulations on your youngest son's successful entry into the Science Olympiad state finals. I'd personally take such a good news over any power-gaining mods on any cars! I hope to have the privilege of meeting you and buying you a drink or two at VOI-8.

Soo - Many thanks for the comments! We were stoked for the Science Olympiad state finals (he qualified in three events) and he is just a great kid, as is his older brother. We just make sure they realize that expensive toys like the Viper require real-world skills, hard work, and maybe a smattering of good fortune.

The honor will be all mine at VOI!

Chris

 

[Dead President]

Chris -

It seems as if you compare stock to the smooth tube & K&N filter setup. What would really be interesting is to make the only variable the smooth tube. We all know that the K&N filters are way better than stock. The real question is what HP & torque is added by JUST the smooth tube !

I am using the K&N RC-5000 and I understand that they weren't designed for the SRT-10, but the question that still begs is: What does the smooth tube REALLY add. Last dyno I saw was 1HP gain and a LOSS of torque.

Dead Pres

 

[CMilViper]

That is a very nice gain!

 

[Y2K5SRT]

It seems as if you compare stock to the smooth tube & K&N filter setup. What would really be interesting is to make the only variable the smooth tube. We all know that the K&N filters are way better than stock. The real question is what HP & torque is added by JUST the smooth tube!

A very good question indeed. The problem I had with that comparison (which I was going to try) was that the two filters are completely different sizes and not interchangeable on the different intakes. Stock filters won't fit on the smooth tube and vice-versa. Now with that being said, we are also going to be testing a set of Green filters on Dyno Day, once again courtesy of JonB and PartsRack. I am not positive, but I think that these filters are reputed to flow as well or better than K&N filters and will fit the stock intake tube. We shall see once they arrive and are tested.

While I can't comment on the effectiveness of the K&N tube using dyno results alone, I will say that the design seems to be much more "flowing" than the stock unit. The stock intake has that bulbous resonator chamber at the front, as well as the corrugated intake and roughly finished side intake tubes. There are numerous angles and corners in that tube that I can't imagine are good for the airflow. The K&N is not only smooth with ZERO corners inside, but they also coated the inside so that it looks almost polished. If you were to hand the two intakes to someone and ask them which one flows better, they would be hard pressed to ever choose the stock setup from looks alone. All that said, the DC and PVO (SRT) engineers obviously have a helluva lot of research in every single facet of the car, so there must be a reason for the design. I believe that resonator chambers are generally used to tone down the noise and not for increased flow.

I will post the expanded dyno results on the K&N setup, as well as the Green filters after the 18th. Should be very interesting!

 

[jwwiii]

Thanks for the detailed testing Chris!

I have an IMPORTANT question: Is there any protection from RAIN provided by the K&N set-up?

Did you remove the "rain flap" that hangs down in the hood air scoop? Is there any "run-off chanelling" provided in the new K&N design? If not, should we consider the K&N set-up to be suitable for fair-weather driving only?

Any opinions or facts on potential water damage would benefit us all. I have my Visa in hand and am waiting for Jon.B to open to place my order for this K&N set-up.

Thanks. Please do give us your opinion on this Chris!

Jim Wallace

 

[JonB]

[quote.... All that said, the DC and PVO (SRT) engineers obviously have a helluva lot of research in every single facet of the car, so there must be a reason for the design. I believe that resonator chambers are generally used to tone down the noise and not for increased flow.

[/QUOTE]

BINGO: Federal Pass-By Noise Standards. "Im from the Federal Govt and Im here to help you."

D-C must limit the decibel level on drive by and even idle. A noisy intake duct must be quieted by the manufacturer. Many have noted the "SNARK" sound of the K+N snorkel setup......this would be bad-news to Pass-By standards. K+N is immune, D-C must comply.

RAIN: The air thru the hood duct travels almost a Z pattern before it fills the airbox. This 'wrings' most of the water but the spray. As always, owners MUST keep the K+Ns oiled, but not so oily it gumms up air sensors! The key is TACKYness of the oil. Let it set up for a day before install. Keep 'a pair and a spare' of filters.

GREENS will be there Tuesday "Field Test Engineer" Chris,thanks for sharing.

 

[SNAKEPILOT]

Chris, would you please post some pictures when you can?. I would like to be able to compare the K&N vs stock, including the filters. Thanks.
John.

 

[ViperRay]

I'd like to see the results on the "Greens" before deciding myself.
I'll be there on the 18th to check it out in person.

 

[Toddh]

Do the "Greens" come with a "smooth tube" package or are they just replacement for the stock filters and what is the cost?

 

[JonB]

Do the "Greens" come with a "smooth tube" package or are they just replacement for the stock filters and what is the cost?

Green Filters are 30-35% larger than K+Ns, and they are stand-alone cannisters that use the OEM throttle inlet. The K+ns are smaller than OE. The Greens a bit larger doameter. More surface area. Half the price of K+N.

Stand by for results head-to-head.

 

[GR8_ASP]

How do the filters in the K&N kit compare with stock or versus the Greens? Also, can the Greens be fitted to the K&N kit if the Greens have higher air flow? I copied the picture from the other thread to show the K&N kit.

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[jwwiii]

Hello;


I would think that the K&N set-up for the SRT certainly comes as a complete unit as shown in the photo? If the Green's DO fit the K&N set-up, will we (are they better?) be buying them as an "up-grade" to the K&N's? It doesn't make sense to me that K&N would invest time and money to develop an SRT-specific performance filter/intake system without utilizing the biggest/highest flowing filter that performed optimally. Anybody have any theories on the Greens VS K&N question?

I am looking forward to ordering the K&N's from Jon.B on Monday!

Jim

 

[JonB]

Anybody have any theories on the Greens VS K&N question?

I am looking forward to ordering the K&N's from Jon.B on Monday!
Jim

Monday, and the phone rang: IT WAS JIM ! Thanks.

Chris may have the Greens by now, and he can test vs K+N Snorkel...and see if they will even FIT the K+N snorkel! Boy, would I love THAT: Sell ya a $299 airbox and $149 of Green filters for it!

Price-fixing-menace that I am, I tried to bribe Chris to say that the K+N snorkel PLUS Green filters COMBINES the benefits of both to achieve 26 HP! (15+11) He refused. Dang. He just shouted something like "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH" and hung up on me................So stay tuned: The results WILL be truthful !

 

[SnakeEye]

Exciting results on the K&N intake no doubt -- thanks for sharing. It’s interesting to note however, when I installed a very similar looking setup on my Z06 tuners were saying that it caused turbulence into the MAS (not a good thing). Granted, the Z06 uses a single element for stock and maybe that was the issue but it's causes me slight pause nonetheless. That said the positive results posted can't be ignored and have certainly got me thinking. I'm still wondering how this compares to just installing the high flow green filters that are available. Anyone know the difference in the gains? Thanks.

 

[GR8_ASP]

SnakeEye I think that is the question that Chris is going to answer (I hope). No issue with a mass air sensor as the SRT does not have one.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I will indeed post SEVERAL dyno results this coming Sunday or Monday after Dyno Day IV here in Kansas City. We will be testing the Greens, as well as the K&N setup on different SRT-10's (making sure mine was not a fluke). We will, of course, get baseline results on the stock filters as well. Should be fun! Now if you want to see a LOT of pictures of the different setups, go to the thread I am just now creating entitled "A Tale of Two Filters"...

 

[AndyP]

I also in stalled the K&N system from PartsRack and it is GREAT and easy to install. Andy