MASH'S APEX 550 STROKER

Jason Heffner

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Sean, I also wondered the same thing as you. None of the grit or shavings found in the intake manifold are magnetic. I am ready to have this compound analyzed at any time. The only thing I am waiting on is to find out whether APEX will take responsibility if they are found at fault.
 
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Torquemonster

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

If the answer is no - there must be a few Mustang owners across the land that'd be interested to know what kind of backup they can expect if they aren't prepared to ship their problems back at their own risk and expense. Not that I can be bothered posting anywhere else but I know there are a few Mustang owners here as well that are watching this - seems like Bill should think carefully about whether it will be as easy as walking away just because he's not doing Vipers anymore.... but who knows - people get away with a lot worse.
 

Roadkill

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Sean, I also wondered the same thing as you. None of the grit or shavings found in the intake manifold are magnetic. I am ready to have this compound analyzed at any time. The only thing I am waiting on is to find out whether APEX will take responsibility if they are found at fault.

Why wait? if the cost is $20 as several claim to have it analyzed, I think this would resolve a lot of questions. You'd at least know what the substance was and then it would just be a matter of APEX owning up if the substance turns out to be honing compound.. I don't see any reason for "holding off" on having this done?
 

Jason Heffner

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Roadkill, the only reason I haven't done this yet is because I want APEX to take part in this examination as well. If I take this intake to a laboratory of my choice and have it analyzed, what's to stop someone from saying that maybe I am friends with these people or anything like that.

Whenever we have sent intakes to Extrude Hone in the past they have never removed the rear expansion plugs for cleaning. Between the expansion plugs and the inside of the manifold there is a small ledge which always ends up with an accumulation of Extrude Hone compound. I have in my possession an intake manifold fresh from Extrude Hone still sealed in its original box and has not yet been opened. What I would suggest is to meet up with a third party with both manifolds, one still in the unopened box, remove the rear expansion plugs, compare the residue which I am sure will be behind the expansion plugs with what is in Mash's intake and determine if they are the same thing. I trust that would clear up any confusion? The problem is that if APEX isn't willing to pay for anything than all I would achieve would be to waste more of my time. I need an answer from APEX soon because I will not have the luxury of letting this other intake sit in the box forever, it needs to go in a car. Does this sound reasonable to all of you?

Bill we are all awaiting your response.
 

Mike Brunton

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Jason that sounds MORE than reasonable.

Bill, what do you have to say? almost three *thousand* folks have viewed this thread and are waiting to hear a conclusion. How about you send one of your guys, and that guy goes with Jason to the unbiased 3rd party for a comparison of the "stuff" in the intake????

Seems very very fair.
 

Tom Welch

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

The shame of the whole thing is that Intake Extrude Honing has never made more than a 7 hp gain! (that I have seen or documented)

Best of luck to all parties concerned.

Tom
 

Roadkill

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Roadkill, the only reason I haven't done this yet is because I want APEX to take part in this examination as well. If I take this intake to a laboratory of my choice and have it analyzed, what's to stop someone from saying that maybe I am friends with these people or anything like that.

Whenever we have sent intakes to Extrude Hone in the past they have never removed the rear expansion plugs for cleaning. Between the expansion plugs and the inside of the manifold there is a small ledge which always ends up with an accumulation of Extrude Hone compound. I have in my possession an intake manifold fresh from Extrude Hone still sealed in its original box and has not yet been opened. What I would suggest is to meet up with a third party with both manifolds, one still in the unopened box, remove the rear expansion plugs, compare the residue which I am sure will be behind the expansion plugs with what is in Mash's intake and determine if they are the same thing. I trust that would clear up any confusion? The problem is that if APEX isn't willing to pay for anything than all I would achieve would be to waste more of my time. I need an answer from APEX soon because I will not have the luxury of letting this other intake sit in the box forever, it needs to go in a car. Does this sound reasonable to all of you?

Bill we are all awaiting your response.

Sounds more than reasonable Jason, I had just been referring to sending in a small sample of the material that was shown in the pictures.. not the whole intake. I would concur about wanting to hear from APEX before sending in the intake for analysis.
 

King GTS

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Seems like Jason Heffner is definitely going out if his way to be fair and reasonable. All he's asking is that Apex meet him halfway. :rolleyes:
 

ronviper

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE, it seems Jason has gone out of his way to help resolve this mess but Bill puts his head in the sand and hopes it goes away. Simple question as a consumer who would you do business with? This will continue to haunt Apex now and in the future if they are still in business. BILL WITH THE INTERNET AND COMMUNICATION TODAY THIS IS A VERY SMALL WORLD, do yourself a favour and come forward.
 
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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Don't know - but if what I've heard is correct - you might find MASH on some Mustang forums if APEX haven't sorted it yet.

Someone should have figured out that fixing the problem will be 10 times cheaper in the longer run than ignoring it.

Several people have tried to facilitate a solution that would leave APEX with some dignity.... but the APEX talk was always only BS, no proaction to back up the words - and now only crickets...
 

SNKEBIT

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

If I was Mash, I'd allready have a good lawyer!!!!!!
It wouldn't have dragged out this long!!!
 

THEMASH

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Well, I think enough is enough, I have tried to do the right thing and not post on the boards and waited for months to resolve this problem with Bill off the boards and in private, but nothing seems to be working.
It’s very clear that Apex does not want to solve this issue. I don’t think Bill really cares at this point what the viper member or anyone else thinks about him or the company he runs. He is clearly at fault and just keeps giving me the run around.

This is an e-mail a received from Bill, BY MISTAKE, it was not intended for me:
“Oh, and if I did agree to the rebuild, I'd tell him that it has to be done here and not by Heffner. And per the warranty agreement, he'd have to pay to ship all the parts back here. That may just make him go away, but I don't know.”

Clearly proves he knows he is at fault, “if I agree to the rebuild” and “that may just make him go away” only proves what we all already know.

Bill is hoping if I get stuck with the shipping charges, I might go away and stop asking him to fix the motor. That’s all he is worried about while Jason is out there working on my motor and I am paying for something he caused, all he is thinking about is ways to make me go away and avoid fixing what he caused.

This E-mail he sent me also clearly proves he knows he is at fault:
“Even if the bit of material that's in your intake matches the bit in another intake, does that automatically conclude that that caused the damage?”

ahhhhh…… I don’t know, what do you guys think? This crap was found all over the inside of my motor, and Bill still thinks it might not have caused the damage. Nothing else was found but that material.

Also adding this:

“And if there was some residue left over, it wouldn't be enough to scratch the ductile iron cylinder liners. And what about the pistons? The one picture only shows very slight vertical marks. If it was enough to scratch the liner, it would've torn a lot more out of the piston, at least from the pictures I received. Since the motor wasn't disassembled here, per the warranty stipulations, I'm just supposed to take Jason's word for it?

As you guys can see, this is what I have to deal with, he is in denial. I even offered to pay for him or his mechanic to fly to MD and check the motor for them selves. But still, nothing.

What many of you guys don’t know is that he did not even send me my parts back when he worked on my motor. That’s right, he kept some of my parts. I have been asking for them and still have not seen anything. He said he would send a small amount for the parts, since they are used, but I have not seen anything yet.
And when I asked him for the LETHAL 750 decals and plaque right after I got the car, do you guys know what he told me, he actually told me to go make my own. Can you believe that? The guy is too cheap to make and send me $10 decals. He even sent me the font type to help me make my own. Not that I would ever stick that LETHAL crap on my car anymore.

He is now telling me to go ahead and send my motor, and he will fix as he sees necessary. That is scary coming from a guy who thinks that faulty crank should be in a new viper motor and did not consider replacing it, but hiding it and denying its faulty. How am I supposed to even trust this guy with my motor? I am sure he will consider the scratches on the cylinder walls and the pistons as minor and wont even repair or replace it. (Going by his standards of work). He also does not work on vipers anymore, and it’s very clear why.

I wanted to give a big thanks to all the viper members who supported their fellow member and this cause. Especially Jason Heffner for having to deal with this first hand and having to put up with Bills BS.
I am considering taking this to the courts and suing Mr. Bill for what he has caused. Not just the motor fix, but for everything. He misrepresented himself as a viper motor builder and a professional tuner. Lied to me and built a motor that was already damaged before it even left his ship, and now wont even pay for the fix, which he is clearly responsible for. I am going to ask Jason to get the material analyzed by pros and start building a case and just go from there. I gave Bill plenty of time, and honestly the way I see it, I did not ask me much. But if this is how he wants to do it, then its fine by me.

Please feel free to e-mail me with any input or advice regarding the above.

To all the members/people reading this, my advice to you, definitely think twice before sending Apex your motor, or having them do any work with your car.

Thanks again
 

Tom Welch

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Mash,

Its a damn shame! All those calls you made to me, you could have been running in the 9's a long time ago with about $ 30 GRAND left in your bank account!

Best of luck.

Tom
 

Mike Brunton

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Tom,

You always gotta get the sales angle in there :) Just teasing you, I love what you've done on NOS!


Mash,

Dealing with warranty problems is a real pain in the neck. I had a very similar problem crop up with a customer recently where I had to take a significant hit to make things right - and my situation was very much a gray area of who did what and who caused the problem - but you gotta do what is right and sleep at night.

Personally I would tell you to follow this to conclusion through the courts. First of all, if you win (and I can see no reason you would not), you would be entitled to collect your legal fees... so it wouldn't cost you anything if you do win. Second, it will give you the satisfaction of knowing you fought the good fight and won, and third, you will be helping prevent this sort of thing by not just letting vendors get away with such things.

I think you could probably find a lawyer who is maybe a Viper guy that might work with you to 'ease your financial pain' on how much it might cost to see this thing through.

Of course a better solution would be for the guys at Apex to just come through and man up and fix the problem, but it appears that isn't going to ever happen.

I would also suggest you make other groups aware of the facts of this case. Facts ain't slander - they are facts.
 

Tom Welch

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

Tony1

I try to keep foot out of mouth as much as possible, but often fail.....even if I find myself to be correct.

Tom
 

RedGTS

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

First of all, if you win (and I can see no reason you would not), you would be entitled to collect your legal fees... so it wouldn't cost you anything if you do win.

What do you base this legal advice on, counselor? :) Although it's possible some arguably applicable statutory claim might carry a fee shifting provision, in general the rule is you don't get your attorney's fees.
 

Vipermed 97.01

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

First of all, if you win (and I can see no reason you would not), you would be entitled to collect your legal fees... so it wouldn't cost you anything if you do win.

What do you base this legal advice on, counselor? :) Although it's possible some arguably applicable statutory claim might carry a fee shifting provision, in general the rule is you don't get your attorney's fees.

<font color="pink"> </font> Ronnie i love it when you talk like that <font color="pink"> </font>
 

1TONY1

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

First of all, if you win (and I can see no reason you would not), you would be entitled to collect your legal fees... so it wouldn't cost you anything if you do win.

What do you base this legal advice on, counselor? :) Although it's possible some arguably applicable statutory claim might carry a fee shifting provision, in general the rule is you don't get your attorney's fees.

<font color="pink"> </font> Ronnie i love it when you talk like that <font color="pink"> </font>

:eek: It's getting me all hot too !!
 

Mike Brunton

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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

First of all, if you win (and I can see no reason you would not), you would be entitled to collect your legal fees... so it wouldn't cost you anything if you do win.

What do you base this legal advice on, counselor? :) Although it's possible some arguably applicable statutory claim might carry a fee shifting provision, in general the rule is you don't get your attorney's fees.

I know job security is important in tough economic times, but I have to disagree and say it's not as complicated as you make it sound. :) When you sue someone you can sue for whatever dollar amount you want. Mash adds up what he paid, plus what it cost him to get it, and sues for that amount. The times I have had to sue someone, I had to come up with a number - and it was derived from how much I was "out", plus what I had to pay to get it. I've won each time and gotten the entire amount each time. Maybe I'm just lucky? If you would like me to do some consultation work for you, I'll give you a good price. :headbang:
 
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Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER

I have told Mashour in at least five emails to send back the engine for inspection, analysis, and/or warranty repair. That is clearly stated as the procedure in the warranty he accepted. If he doesn't want to do that, there's not a whole lot I can do. He simply wants me to write him a check, but that's not the way a warranty works.
 
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