New Chrysler Owns the Viper - See Below

mcar00

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My guess is that Fiat never wanted Viper or else they would have requested it from the start. Instead Chrysler originally dumped it into "Old Chrysler" with the hopes of getting a few bucks for it. Since there were no takers I'm guessing they could have just let it collect dust or give it away to "New" Chrysler (Fiat). I don't think Fiat would turn it down for free as there might be some upside to the name, future part sales or whatever. I'd be surprised if they crank it up again at this point. Again, just a guess.
 

Viperless

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Re: New Chrysler LLC. to purchase Viper?

This news tidbit was mentioned and then buried in another thread, but if it means what it appears to mean, the new Fiat/Chrysler has ammended the purchase papers and now want to purchase Viper. Here is the quote from the Master Transaction Agreement.


"19. Section 2.15 of the MTA shall be amended and restated in its entirety to read as follows:
“Section 2.15 Viper. Purchaser agrees to purchase, and the Sellers
agree to sell, Intellectual Property and Purchased Inventories that relate
solely to vehicle production of the Chrysler Dodge Viper SRT10 vehicle
models and are not necessary or useful in any other line of business (the
“Viper Assets”) on the Closing Date, as if the Viper Assets were being
purchased and sold as Purchased Assets pursuant to Section 2.06. For the
purposes of this Section 2.15, vehicle production means the production
and sale of Chrysler Dodge Viper SRT10 vehicle models, engines and
accessories (including related non-core Viper branded merchandise
(including toy vehicle replicas, clothing and video games) and marine
engines based on the Chrysler Dodge Viper SRT10 V-10 engine, as
conducted by the Sellers prior to the Closing.”

The original section 2.15 said existing Chrysler would sell Viper. This ammendment reads to me that Viper will remain with the new company. Anyone read this different?

Discussion about this started yesterday:

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...626632-new-chrysler-owns-viper-see-below.html
 

slaughterj

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The problem is there aren't enough of us buying them...period. The 2006 Viper Coupe was a flop...and that was the returning year for the coupe after a three year hiatus. They didn't make any in 2007 then returned in 08 to a poor market. It was dying before the market collapse.

That doesn't make sense seeing as how all the recent news about Chrysler has been that only Jeep Wrangler and Viper were areas of value/profit.
 

CarDude

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That doesn't make sense seeing as how all the recent news about Chrysler has been that only Jeep Wrangler and Viper were areas of value/profit.

"Areas of value" if you sold CAAP for $10 million...maybe. How in the world could the Viper be profitable with the sales so low, and prices to match? 08-09 sales needed to recoup the costs of the re-engineering of the car (or make money to pay for future revisions). How many 08-09 have been made...and how many are sold. With the plant closed as much as it has been, you would think there would be a waiting line for any Viper, no matter the color or options.

I am sorry if it seems like this is pessimistic, but I don't want to Viper name run into the ground.

Let it leave on a high note...7.22...King of the Ring
 

ASPIRATIONS

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"Areas of value" if you sold CAAP for $10 million...maybe. How in the world could the Viper be profitable with the sales so low, and prices to match? 08-09 sales needed to recoup the costs of the re-engineering of the car (or make money to pay for future revisions). How many 08-09 have been made...and how many are sold. With the plant closed as much as it has been, you would think there would be a waiting line for any Viper, no matter the color or options.

I am sorry if it seems like this is pessimistic, but I don't want to Viper name run into the ground.

Let it leave on a high note...7.22...King of the Ring


Car Dude you are almost begging in every post for the Viper to die,why? Could it be that you have 3 and want their value to go up in your lifetime,?LOL...
My thoughts are that if the Viper is produced again I think it will be in good hands with stronger leadership ie(Herb) and maybe less BS from upper level interferance...I dont think they(new owners) will produce a watered down version..JMO...Kevin
 
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CarDude

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Car Dude you are almost begging in every post for the Viper to die,why? Could it be that you have 3 and want their value to go up in your lifetime,?LOL...
My thoughts are that if the Viper is produced again I think it will be in good hands with stronger leadership ie(Herb) and maybe less BS from upper level interferance...I dont think they(new owners) will produce a watered down version..JMO...Kevin

Its already dead...I say don't resurect it. It's like the official "Weekend at Bernie's" car.
 
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Bobpantax

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If I’m a betting man, I am certain it will at least go to the en banc hearing,” said Anthony Sabino, a St. John’s University law professor specializing in bankruptcy law.

I am not a bankruptcy lawyer but I will take the other side of the bet. With all the talent working on the Chrysler side of this bankruptcy I would be quite surprised if they had not considered and prepared for this scenario well ahead of time.
 

GR8_ASP

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Any bets on future investment/divestment in Indiana if Chrysler survives?

Not a good bet for a max payout of just a few million. In fact, no matter what the result I bet that Indiana (the entire state) will be the loser.

If they win and Chrysler goes down several major facilities employing many thousands stop. Plus all of the dealers and parts suppliers. The "me" generation is imploding. But if Chrysler survives do you think they would "reward" a state that took such action with new investment. Not likely.
 

Stealth

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If I’m a betting man, I am certain it will at least go to the en banc hearing,” said Anthony Sabino, a St. John’s University law professor specializing in bankruptcy law.

I am not a bankruptcy lawyer but I will take the other side of the bet. With all the talent working on the Chrysler side of this bankruptcy I would be quite surprised if they had not considered and prepared for this scenario well ahead of time.

+1 With the way politics are going now, the private pension rights will be squashed and the deal--the only deal available--will move forward.
 

Yellow32

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Any bets on future investment/divestment in Indiana if Chrysler survives?

Not a good bet for a max payout of just a few million. In fact, no matter what the result I bet that Indiana (the entire state) will be the loser.

If they win and Chrysler goes down several major facilities employing many thousands stop. Plus all of the dealers and parts suppliers. The "me" generation is imploding. But if Chrysler survives do you think they would "reward" a state that took such action with new investment. Not likely.

I CAN UNEQUIVOCALLY SAY YOU ARE WRONG!

we will ALL be losers if this stands as-is!

Chrysler and the Rule of Law - WSJ.com
 

GR8_ASP

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I can unequivically say I disagree with the rule of law assertion.

I believe the creditors are receiving 100% of the value, spread equally between all 6.9B of holdings. That is based upon the stated value of the "good" Chrysler of $2B. The Judge provided a 3 week period for any and all alternative buyers of the assets to surpass the $2B amount. None came forward. The assertion by the lenders is that the value of the Chrysler assets broken up will surpass $2B. That is pure BS and conjecture on their part. They have no buyers lined up, no data to support their contention. The lenders assert that only through asset sales will they ever know the real value. But then what happens if the resulting asset value is less than $2B? The harm placed upon the people, businesses and communities that have depended on the Chrysler business entity will all be irreversible. I think we all know the current market value for anything automotive is depressed to say the least. For these pension funds, which purchased their Chrysler paper at reduced price to now demand full compensation without regard to the impact on the nation or its peoples it blasphemy.

If the actual value of the assets is equal to or less than $2B as Chrysler, the government and Judge Gonzales have stated, the rule of law has been followed.

I find the following parallel to the Indiana pensioner funds:
A man went to the doctor complaining of an internal pain. The doctor indicated that they needed to do surgery to confirm the cause of the pain. Without the surgey to confirm the cause the proposed medication had a 75% probability of working and resulting in a long life. However, without knowing the true cause, the potential for the medication to result in a fast death was 5%. The probability that the surgey would succeed was stated to be 90%. Would you take your medicine or go under the knife?
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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The new owners should invest in a race program. It worked for Ferrari long before Ferrari started wasting money on paddles and nannies.
 

Stealth

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Very interesting business propositions to invest funds totalling many times the value of a company (Chrysler, GM, etc.) through bailouts funded by taxpayers. Not really good business or AMERICAN!!! :usa:

I am just waiting for the "equal protection" lawsuits from companies (or investors of companies) who feel they were discriminated against because they did NOT receive a bailout. See, e.g., Lehman Brothers.
 
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GR8_ASP

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What is more concerning is the new appeal element on the application of TARP funds. That could bring GM, Chrysler and the automotivive industry to a screaching halt as even the suppliers have received TARP funds. This may be a case of cutting off ones nose to spite their face.

How important is the rule of law? More important than life or survival of the country itself? Interesting question with no good answer. I think this one is going to go to the Supreme Court. And, in so much that time is a factor for all of the auto industry, raising it to the Supreme Court could be the death knell, regardless of the decision. Time itself is an enemy.
 

CarDude

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What is more concerning is the new appeal element on the application of TARP funds. That could bring GM, Chrysler and the automotivive industry to a screaching halt as even the suppliers have received TARP funds. This may be a case of cutting off ones nose to spite their face.

How important is the rule of law? More important than life or survival of the country itself? Interesting question with no good answer. I think this one is going to go to the Supreme Court. And, in so much that time is a factor for all of the auto industry, raising it to the Supreme Court could be the death knell, regardless of the decision. Time itself is an enemy.

Then they should die. The rest of us face the same realities in our businesses...government bailout money...what's that.
 
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Bobpantax

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The creditors that filed the appeal represent one percent of the secured debt of old Chrysler. Furthermore, they bought the debt for 47 cents on the dollar last summer when the situation was already grave. The attorneys' fees incurred on both sides of the battle will probably come close to the amount it would have taken to settle the matter over and above the 29% payout accepted by the overwhelming majority of secured creditors. Furthermore, if the somewhat shortsighted appellants had accepted the original offer, the bankruptcy would not have been necessary based on prior news reports from credible sources. So a tiny contingent of secured creditors caused the debtor to incur the cost of the bankruptcy. If they win and they are successful in delaying the closing of the deal, I predict that all the creditors will end up with much less than 29%. The Rule of Law? No. The Rule of stupidity and greed? Yes.
 

slaughterj

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"Areas of value" if you sold CAAP for $10 million...maybe. How in the world could the Viper be profitable with the sales so low, and prices to match?

I don't know, but if you read the several other threads that posted this fact, perhaps you'll understand.
 
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Bobpantax

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Latest news. Why waste the Court's time and alienate the New Chrysler? Approach the New Chrysler and try to do a deal. I think the strategy, particularly involving a Congreeperson, was ill conceived. JM2Cs.

Republican Lawmaker Issa Challenges Chrysler’s Viper Statements

By Mike Ramsey
June 4 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC is under scrutiny by a Republican lawmaker over statements Chief Executive Officer Robert Nardelli made and documents filed in bankruptcy court about a lack of bidders for its Dodge Viper sports-car business.
“I am writing to express my serious concern that you failed to disclose information material to ongoing bankruptcy proceedings,” Darrell Issa, a California Republican who is the ranking minority member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said in a letter to Nardelli dated today.
A Michigan-based group of car enthusiasts and other private investors made a $35 million offer earlier this year and was negotiating terms before the company’s bankruptcy, said Dave Draper, one of the investors. Chrysler bankruptcy documents said the only interest in the operations was a $5.5 million offer it was investigating.
“We recently offered for sale our entire Conner Avenue plant, the facility that manufactures the Dodge Vipers, for only $10 million,” Nardelli said in a bankruptcy affidavit about the limited value of automotive assets. “We received no purchaser interest.”
The group offering $35 million had been willing to purchase the plant as part of its offer, said Joseph Moch Sr., an attorney representing the purchasing group.
Chrysler said in a statement that it evaluated strategic alternatives for the Viper business.
“Prior to the Chapter 11 filing, no offers meeting the company’s basic requirements for the sale of Viper assets were submitted,” David Elshoff, a Chrysler spokesman, said in a statement. “Post-petition, all parties who had an interest in purchasing the Viper assets were instructed by Judge Arthur Gonzalez to make a bid. Chrysler received just one post-petition bid of $5.5 million for Viper.”
Seeking Explanation
The congressman asked Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler for all of its records relating to the discussions between Moch and the investors and Chrysler. Issa also asked for an explanation for the discrepancies between court testimony and statements from the potential buyers.
The chairman of the oversight committee, New York Democrat Edolphus Towns, has received Issa’s letter and is reviewing it, said Jenny Rosenberg, a spokeswoman for the panel. Issa can send the letter on behalf of the minority without the committee taking up the issue, she said.
U.S. Trustee Diana Adams, who represents the Justice Department in bankruptcies filed in Manhattan federal court, wasn’t immediately available for comment. A spokesman for her office declined to comment. U.S. Department of Justice spokeswoman Jane Limprecht declined to comment.
Waiting to Close
Chrysler has been trying to sell the Viper business since last August. Through May of this year, the automaker sold 289 of the sports cars with a V-10 engine and starting price of $88,125.
Chrysler carries over the Viper operations to the new company, with the option to leave some of its assets in bankruptcy court to be liquidated, according to court documents.
Chrysler is waiting to close on a $2 billion sale of most of its assets to a new company controlled by Fiat SpA for approval of a U.S. Appeals Court. The court is hearing arguments tomorrow from Indiana pension funds that the sale is an unconstitutional use of federal funds funneled through the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
Fiat also owns sports-car brands Maserati and Ferrari, which aren’t part of the Chrysler deal. Gualberto Ranieri, a Fiat spokesman, declined to comment.
‘We Made an Offer’
The pension funds also say that the $2 billion sale price undervalues what creditors might have fetched for the company through a liquidation sale. Nardelli’s court testimony was aimed at supporting the notion that its automotive assets had limited value in the current market.
“Yes we were interested. Yes we were negotiating. Yes we made an offer,” said Draper, who owned Cars & Concepts, a Brighton, Michigan-based company that installed convertible tops for Chrysler, General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. in the 1980s. It was sold to Taylor, Michigan-based MascoTech Inc.
“They made a decision to include it in the assets to Fiat,” Draper said. “If we want to pursue it, we have to pursue it through Fiat.”
To contact the reporter on this story: Mike Ramsey in Southfield, Michigan, at [email protected]
Last Updated: June 4, 2009 15:32 EDT
 

Yellow32

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I can unequivically say I disagree with the rule of law assertion.

I believe the creditors are receiving 100% of the value, spread equally between all 6.9B of holdings. That is based upon the stated value of the "good" Chrysler of $2B. The Judge provided a 3 week period for any and all alternative buyers of the assets to surpass the $2B amount. None came forward. The assertion by the lenders is that the value of the Chrysler assets broken up will surpass $2B. That is pure BS and conjecture on their part. They have no buyers lined up, no data to support their contention. The lenders assert that only through asset sales will they ever know the real value. But then what happens if the resulting asset value is less than $2B? The harm placed upon the people, businesses and communities that have depended on the Chrysler business entity will all be irreversible. I think we all know the current market value for anything automotive is depressed to say the least. For these pension funds, which purchased their Chrysler paper at reduced price to now demand full compensation without regard to the impact on the nation or its peoples it blasphemy.

If the actual value of the assets is equal to or less than $2B as Chrysler, the government and Judge Gonzales have stated, the rule of law has been followed.

I find the following parallel to the Indiana pensioner funds:
A man went to the doctor complaining of an internal pain. The doctor indicated that they needed to do surgery to confirm the cause of the pain. Without the surgey to confirm the cause the proposed medication had a 75% probability of working and resulting in a long life. However, without knowing the true cause, the potential for the medication to result in a fast death was 5%. The probability that the surgey would succeed was stated to be 90%. Would you take your medicine or go under the knife?


NONSENSE!

Under long recognized legal and business principles, junior creditors are ordinarily not entitled to anything until senior secured creditors like these investors are repaid in full.

So how does the UAW get anything? Care to explain? Did the UAW pay for the ownership being conveyed to them? And if they did, those funds would go to the secured creditors, no? Please do remember that the majority of the secured creditors have been taken over by TARP/US Treasury and that's the only reason they have laid down their claims, they were forced to.

I found this whacky statement:

Instead of contributing $8.8 billion to a retiree health- care trust, Chrysler will give the union trust shares of the company and a promissory note for $4.59 billion that will be paid in installments with 9 percent interest until 2023, one of the people said. This reduces the up-front cash Chrysler would have had to pay under its 2007 contract agreement with the Detroit-based union.

from:

UAW Said to Get 55% Chrysler Ownership, Board Seats (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

Seems the Rule of Law is being circumvented, pretty clearly. A junior non-secured creditor receiving preferential treatment over secured creditors.

Explain that one (and don't tell me about the UAW halving their pension bill to Chrysler, they are still an unsecured creditor).

Not to mention 55% ownership!

Not to mention this is hilarious when you think of it, the unintended consequences of the UAW owning a car company, who are you going to negotiate with? That alone ought to guarantee the complete disappearance of Chrysler.
 

Yellow32

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The creditors that filed the appeal represent one percent of the secured debt of old Chrysler. Furthermore, they bought the debt for 47 cents on the dollar last summer when the situation was already grave. The attorneys' fees incurred on both sides of the battle will probably come close to the amount it would have taken to settle the matter over and above the 29% payout accepted by the overwhelming majority of secured creditors. Furthermore, if the somewhat shortsighted appellants had accepted the original offer, the bankruptcy would not have been necessary based on prior news reports from credible sources. So a tiny contingent of secured creditors caused the debtor to incur the cost of the bankruptcy. If they win and they are successful in delaying the closing of the deal, I predict that all the creditors will end up with much less than 29%. The Rule of Law? No. The Rule of stupidity and greed? Yes.


...perhaps you missed that the majority of the secured creditors were shut down the US Treasury by way of TARP funds. Those banks had no choice but to do what they were told by this administration. You do realize that, no? And that this "tiny percentage" of secured creditors are probably the only ones not under such "guidance". Right? So how does your point convey any semblence of the underlying lawlessness of what has happened?
 

Yellow32

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Latest news. Why waste the Court's time and alienate the New Chrysler? Approach the New Chrysler and try to do a deal. I think the strategy, particularly involving a Congreeperson, was ill conceived. JM2Cs.

Would you feel the same if this was Fiat's end-run to kill Viper?

Motivation:

a. current administration told them to do this (they bleed 'green' you know)

b. increase the potential pool of buys for expensive rides (Maseratis are in the same price range as Viper, I know, different kind of buyer)

c. maybe Fiat has another plan to sell off Ferrari, Maserati and Viper to the Chinese

never know but this is getting weirder and weirder
 

GR8_ASP

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Yellow if the value is $2B and it is SOLD, with 100% of the proceeds given to the creditors why would they care what the buyers did with it? It is SOLD. Anything after that point is a new entity. You cannot get the monies from it more than once. That the fed is willing to invest in the new company to make it solvent and allow a restart, and how that new company is apportioned has nothing to do with it. Only the value prior. Those creditors can stake no claim to future monies invested by the federal government, Canada or any other entity.
 
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Bobpantax

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Would you feel the same if this was Fiat's end-run to kill Viper?

Motivation:

a. current administration told them to do this (they bleed 'green' you know)

b. increase the potential pool of buys for expensive rides (Maseratis are in the same price range as Viper, I know, different kind of buyer)

c. maybe Fiat has another plan to sell off Ferrari, Maserati and Viper to the Chinese

never know but this is getting weirder and weirder

1. The new Chrysler will sell the Viper Enterprise if it does not choose to continue the Viper. Any other course of conduct makes no business sense in view of the continuing warranty obligation. The Viper does not compete with any product currently sold by Fiat or any of its subsidiaries. The buyers for Ferraris and Maseratis, in general, are not Viper buyers.

2. I am a firm believer in not ******* in the wind and it is pretty clear which way the wind is blowing. There is an opportunity to acquire the Viper Enterprise but irritating the New Chrysler with BS from a Republican Congresspersson when the power party in clear control is the Democratic Party is just foolishness.

3. If they really want the Viper Enterprise, they should have used their time, efforts and money on the current party in power. (I am a Republican but I am also a realist.)
 

RMBSRT

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You are missing the point regarding the Viper bid of $35 million. Old Chrysler (Nardeli) claimed in the court filings there was only one bid of $5.5 million for the Viper assets. There was NO mention of the larger bid. That is where the problem is...perjury! What else are they hiding?
 

Coloviper

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Don't think the 06 Coupe was a flop? Where does that come from Dude?

In the end, Viper is and always has been an image car and it is not the image the New Chrysler will want to portray with the poeple's money invested now. It is in the noise level of the dollars spent at Chrysler with loans, etc. so they could discontinue it completely overnight without hesitation. It is a moot point if the Federal government demands it is to stop production for whatever reason they desire. The smart thing to do would be to just say they will be building them up to a certain point (Labor Day) and that is it. Last chance to order and buy a new Viper.

There are more than enough of them out there for all of us to enjoy and if there isn't than maybe the ones out there will actually go up in value. Can't say that is a bad thing.

New paint colors and rim designs will not be enough to keep volume up and it is painful obvious there will be no development dollars on it so why would they want to continue it? Flood the market will more Vipers of the same so they all go down in price. As a current owner, I sure would not want that.
 
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