No more Zaino!, No more Zaino!, No more...

ChoiceViper

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Damn Maui...Uh..er..Newport, those pics look like yellow glass. More info please. ;) :2tu:
 

Matt M PA

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I have it on good authority that this is another typical Meguiars product...lots of silicone oil, hence the shine....very little durability.

I know that I do not want silicone oil on my paint.
 

Vic

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Is silicone oil bad for our Vipers?
 

Matt M PA

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Vic..silicone oil is harmful to paint. First, it makes any type of re-paint difficult, and it can leach under the surface of your paint and lift it off.

Maybe I am too over-protective of my cars, but after reading about silicone oils, I avoid them like the plague.

The reason that most "waxes" contain silicone is because it is very cheap and very shiney. Problem is, it has no durability to speak of and offers no protection from the elements.

Silicones are also used in almost all the vinyl protectants, like Harm It All. You don;t want to use silicones on vinyl and rubber because it strips away the plasticizers that keep them from cracking. Silicones also "seal" the surface and make them much more prone to heat damage. Good info on this by Protectant 303. You may check their web site. 303 is oneof a very few "protectants" that does not contain silicones, and 303 is recommended by vinyl makers.

My "polish" of choice is Zaino. I have yet to find another product that does what Zaino does and I have converted many of my friends to it as well. Sal has always been available for advice and help too.

In the end though, it all comes down to using what you like.

One more thing. Last Fall, I posted about this with a pic of my '94 Bronco on the SVT site (Ford Cobra). Check out the link below.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63537
 

Vic

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Wow, I didn't know all that! Are you sure McGuires has silicones in it?

I checked their website, but was unable to find out anything about the ingredients. Barry McGuire can be seen locally quite often. If I see him, I'll ask.

One thing I noticed about "Harm it All"-

I had a faded dashboard on an older car. It wasn't cracked, just faded somewhat. I thought I'd spruce it up a bit with some of that stuff you mentioned- and within a month, it was cracking. Plus, it looked worse, once the stuff wore off. It actually faded worse than before, so I had to keep putting more and more on, just to keep it looking good. Thats when it occured to me that I'd been had! It would be better to not ever put that stuff on.
 

Matt M PA

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Vic...the problem with siliconeso n plastic and rubber is that it breaks down the plasticizers that keep plastics soft, etc. Then..the silicone replaces these plasticizers with itself. Now, the plastic or rubber is "addicted" to the silicones and you'd have to use them forever. Even then, it's still too late to make it right again.

On tires, silicones remove the carbon, or "black" of the tire. The carbon is the UV guard of the tire. That's why over dressed tires get a brown look. With the UV protection gone...the tire's life is diminished.
 

Vic

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McGuinn and McGuire
just keep gettin' higher
in LA, you know where thats at

and no ones getting fat, 'cept Mamma Cass

heh heh, thats almost even before my time.

Different McGuire!
 

Vic

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Matt M, thanks for your input. It makes sense to me, after seeing how "Harm it All" destroyed my dashboard.

I'll hold off throwing away my McGuires stuff until I hear the truth about whether or not it contains silicones.
 

Matt M PA

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Vic...glad to help. I went overboard researching this stuff when I got my first Viper as I saw the car as "long term" and did not want to use anything harmful.

Most "waxes" contain either silicone, (cheap and shiny) or carnauba (really hard and yellow). Zaino by comparison is all synthetic and almost optically clear.

We know about silicones, but a word about carnauba. Carnauba is so hard and so yellow that it must be blended with another wax, like paraffin. Otherwise, it would be like spreading candle wax onto your car. So, what you really get is something like 5% carnauba, 95% paraffin. Once on the car it has a very short life in the sun, and when it gets hot, it softens and holds grit.
 

PRVT JET

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The only thing I noticed about zaino, after two hand washes you can see the swirl marks again. I noticed even zymol lasts longer. I'm not saying that zaino is not a good product, it looks amazing after the job is complete. If the can make it more protective, I would buy it again.
 

Steve 00RT/10

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I don't like rankling the died in the wool Zaino guys and haven't for a long time, but.........I've been using a product called Liquid Lustre for a few years now on both the Viper and our other vehicles. Below is what the ad says are the active ingredients.

Aliphatic Distillates, Aromatic Hydrocarbons, Amine

Vipers are probably the most pampered car, from a 'protecting the finish' standpoint, many of us will ever own. They will very seldom see harsh conditions and are garaged and/or covered much of the time they are idle. Heck, many Vipers are garage queens and hardly ever used. Pity! I have seen many Zainoed cars and can't really tell the difference between the Zaino product and what I'm using. I get about 9,000 miles a season on our car and wax it maybe 4 times over the course of the summer. Something I will relate as regards protection with this product. Our daily winter driver is a '95 Cadillac ETC. This car is driven in salt daily and washed weekly. In my 36 years of owning cars, I have yet to see a wax last as long as it does on this Cadillac in the winter time. I wax it once a year..in the spring before I put it away till the following November. The water still beads after a winter of punishing snow and salt. The shine lasts like no other wax I've ever used. That's what protection is about---Not a Viper that typically only sees good weather, garages, and covers. The point here being that as this and other threads on this subject indicate..there's a lot of other good products out there that don't require nearly the work to produce a comparable result. I don't believe any wax or polish, sold at retail today,(whether silicone or not)will degrade my paint surface to the degree that I'd just have to sue them..........just kidding.

There .. I said it. Flame away Zaino guys.

Steve
 

Vic

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Newport Viper, did you contact McGuire's?
 

Paul Hawker

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The SouthernCalifornia ViperClub is in close contact with Meguiars. They are great people, and have donated many detail kits to the club for use as raffles.
Club President Greg Baxter is setting up an event at their facility where they will share their knowledge, and products to educate us on proper care and feeding of snake skins.
They can handle up to 20 cars per day, so perhaps this will be a 2 day event.
Stay tuned.
 

SapphireGTS

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You know what I have good luck with.

Nu Finish. Goes on well and lasts for a year.

Seriously. I dont want to spend 8 hours waxing my car. Nu Finish goes on and comes right off and looks pretty darn good.
 

Paul Hawker

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Steve.
I have a garage full of little bottles of various car shiney stuff. Sometimes let the detailer use his special stuff. I'm not an expert, and am a sucker for good advertising. Just like the wine I drink, I'm all over the place. I've used everything from Nu finish (which I like) to Liquid Glass, which I first used on a 64 Valient (in 64).
I just like the way Meguiars treats the enthusiasts car people. They seem to step up to the plate at almost every concourse.
My current Viper is Silver, and everything seems about the same on that color.
Last wax job was with Meguiars Gold. I keep it topped off with their detail spray, which they gave away at the VOI in Vegas.
Keep the shiney side up. (For those enthusiasts who wax their chassis forget I said that >).
 

Steve 00RT/10

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You know what I have good luck with.

Nu Finish. Goes on well and lasts for a year.

Seriously. I dont want to spend 8 hours waxing my car. Nu Finish goes on and comes right off and looks pretty darn good.

After a very good write up in Consumer's Reports about 15 years ago, I used Nu Finish for many years until trying Liquid Lustre. I've switched to the Liquid Lustre. Longer lasting, as good or better a shine, and easier to get off. I couldn't agree more about time spent to do the job. Takes me about an hour to do the viper--typically about 3 times a season and 10,000 miles.

For those who fear silicone products, here's an interesting article I found at a car care site.
Silicone Myths


Steve
 

Matt M PA

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Paul...there's no doubt that Meguiars' is a great promoter.

Steve...who wrote the silicone myth article? By the look of
the picture surrounding...I would say, Meguiars'.

If silicones are truly no problem, why do the major makers of compounds and polishes specifically mark the products that do not contain silicone as "body shopsafe"?

Why is Protectant 303 (that does not contain silicones) the ONLY protectant recognized by vinyl makers?
 

Snake Bitten

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If silicones are truly no problem, why do the major makers of compounds and polishes specifically mark the products that do not contain silicone as "body shopsafe"?


Silicones attract dust...that is why body shops don't use them...Dust is the enemy of body shops...They spend thousands on their paint booths to create a "dust free" environment...For the obvious reason, you don't want dust in your brand new paint job...For us, dust presents a different problem...When dust collects on your finish, then you remove it, even with the softest of cloths or dusters, you create tiny scratches in the clearcoat...every time.

To combat "dust", simply use spray like Zaino's Z6 or Pinnacle's spray in between each coat of any silicone containing wax/polish...These are designed to attract about 60% less dust than anything else on the market...I also use it before and after I take my RT out...

This is Mother's Reflections and Pinnacle Spray Mist (a spray carnuba)...If anyone has a better finish on their Viper than mine, and has more miles than me (just over 21,000)...I'll kiss their ass!!! :eek:

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Newport Viper

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This is Mother's Reflections and Pinnacle Spray Mist (a spray carnuba)...If anyone has a better finish on their Viper than mine, and has more miles than me (just over 21,000)...I'll kiss their ass!!! :eek:

Well I never wanted a guy to kiss my a$$, butt this will be a first!

(j/k) Ha, ha...

SoCal guys look for an email this weekend on a New event!

Snake would love to see your car and how you use your PC!

Let me know if your free this weekend.
 

Matt M PA

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Snake Bitten....indeed your car looks great.

But...you're off on the silicones issue. Or, my body man with at least 30 years experience is wrong.

Silicones are avoided in body shops because they cause paint adhesion problems, like fish eyes. Sure, you can use fish eye reducer, but this causes other problems.

Like I said before...use whatever you like. Some like Liquid Luster, some like Mother's, some like Zaino.

I don't use carnauba because you can only get about 5% actual carnauba as it is just too yellow and hard to apply and spread. So, it's mixed with parrifin to make it spread and dry. Problem is, you wind up with a wax left behind with a very short lifespan and one that will soften in the sun and actually hold grime and dirt.

I am one of those guys that tried every new polish and even bought some at swap meets and car shows. When I switched to Zaino, I gave a friend of mine all my Mother's. He now uses Zaino too.
 

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