Nurburgring predictions-

[Vic]

Got any guesses as to the Ring time of the basic Gen5 GTS? Somebody will likely test it at the Ring this fall.

It's about 3350#s, right? 640 hp, 600 ft pounds of torque, Bilsteins, some built-in downforce, stock Pirellis....

I guess about 7:19, give or take a couple of seconds.

What's your guess? The one who guesses closest to the actual Ring time gets my unending admiration.

 

[Bobpantax]

The 2012 ZR1 Vette variant with aero kit did a bit over 7 min, 19 sec. So the stock Gen V without any aero will probably do about 7 min 25 sec or so since it will not generate as much down force as the Gen IV ACR. Once the Gen V ACR is available, I would expect about a two second improvement over the 2010 Gen IV ACR based on increased power; more suitable gearing; perhaps a more refined and tuned suspension, weight reduction, and if we are to believe the hype about the new tires, stickier tires.

 

[PDCjonny]

The 2012 ZR1 Vette variant with aero kit did a bit over 7 min, 19 sec. So the stock Gen V without any aero will probably do about 7 min 25 sec or so since it will not generate as much down force as the Gen IV ACR. Once the Gen V ACR is available, I would expect about a two second improvement over the 2010 Gen IV ACR based on increased power; more suitable gearing; perhaps a more refined and tuned suspension, weight reduction, and if we are to believe the hype about the new tires, stickier tires.

Stickier than Sports Cups?..
I would be very surprised if SRT takes a Gen 5 coupe to the 'Ring it's a no win situation.
It won't beat a Gen 4 ACR and if it doesn't beat a ZR 1....that would be baaaaadddddd.

 

[Bobpantax]

deleted post

 

[Bobpantax]

Read what I posted again. It does not state that SRT would run the non ACR version. It attempts to answer a hypothetical question. The OP states that "someone" will likely test it. ( Of course the OP's timing is off since only SRT could test it this Fall since the car will not be available to the public this Fall. I agree with you that SRT will not do such a test for a number of reasons including cost.) Note my comment about down force. As for the tires, I am basing my comment on this quote from SRT:

For 2013, SRT Viper models ride on standard Pirelli P Zero, Z-rated tires with substantially improved overall performance, cold weather performance, enhanced overall grip and steering response on a variety of road surfaces while also broadening the performance envelope. An optional SRT Track Package features Pirelli P Zero Corsa, “soft”-tuned, "racing-type" compound tires that improve handling and precision further on the road or the race track.


If the above is what they have develped for the track pack option, I am just guessing that there may be an improvement for the ACR version although I agree with your implication - that would not be easy.

The new car also has increased rigidity and an improved suspension.

My 7:25 guess for a stock Gen V, even with the track pack option, without aero may be a bit optimistic since the old Viper record for the ACR before the 7:12 record was 7:22. As we all know the difference between the two cars used was the change in the fifth gear ratio from .74 to .8 and the slightly improved aero allowing an increase in top speed from 177 to 184. They also had more time to tune the suspension as needed in the second test.

Stickier than Sports Cups?..
I would be very surprised if SRT takes a Gen 5 coupe to the 'Ring it's a no win situation.
It won't beat a Gen 4 ACR and if it doesn't beat a ZR 1....that would be baaaaadddddd.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Lets hope it does better than the race car has done.

 

[phavyarden]

I'm expecting at least same time as the ZR1(7:19) with MPSC, considering the track pack with Pirelli PZero Corsa

 

[Fatboy 18]

Lets hope it does better than the race car has done.

God I hope so, I hope there's a whole lot of testing going on somewhere, at least the new car should be able to run without air restrictors

 

[Newport Viper]

Stickier than Sports Cups?..
I would be very surprised if SRT takes a Gen 5 coupe to the 'Ring it's a no win situation.
It won't beat a Gen 4 ACR and if it doesn't beat a ZR 1....that would be baaaaadddddd.

SECOND THAT! No need to take it there.

 

[Vic]

( Of course the OP's timing is off since only SRT could test it this Fall since the car will not be available to the public this Fall.

2 weeks ago, Bernie Katz of Tom Ball Dodge said "the new car is released in a couple months". While that is admittedly not the official word of SRT, he is at least fairly in-the-know. That would make the Gen 5 available about October, which certainly is in the fall. Someone that works closely for SRT in a support role also told me Q3, but that sounds optomistic. The official start date of winter is Dec 21, so any car shipped before then is technically still in the fall, and if one was bought and shipped there, it could be run at the Ring this fall. So it is at least feasible, albeit not probable, to see a Ring test in the fall. Regardless, if it is tested in the winter, or even next spring, makes no difference. I'll wait for the dual-clutch version, which is said to be a year or two off, still.

I personally don't see SRT testing the GTS at all, because it's Ring time, while likely respectable, probably won't be all that spectacular compared to the Gen4 ACR. If and when SRT goes back to the Ring, it will likely be in a couple of years, with a dual-clutch ACR version, so as to maximize the return on investment, and post a high-water-mark laptime. Perhaps a car magazine will undertake the task of running the SRT GTS or SRT Viper first.

BTW, isn't it odd that McClaren and Ferrari can do no better than 7:28s, with their extremely high tech MP4-12C, and 458 Italia? The performance-to-cost ratio is sucking wind. I know they are elegant, refined, and owners like them more for their status and artistic value, but c'mon, for over $230,000, and sophisticated suspensions, exotic engines and all, they can't beat an old push-rod-engined ZO6? With the Vette even having far less horsepower? PS Cups can't be worth that much time alone? ***?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

 

[PDCjonny]

Vic- Ralph has confirmed production start date has been pushed back to December.

 

[Bobpantax]

Yep. From a post one week ago:

1 Week Ago#23bcmarly

Enthusiast

---

Join Date Jul 2012Posts

Re: Forecast 2013 Production Run

Just recieved a message from Gilles stating the following:

"Very well, we had some self imposed delays for quality reasons, so production will start in Dec! Welcome to twitter! "

I like that they are not rushing to production.. Quality has to be job #1 and evidently it is.​

 

[Vic]

Oh, no, didn't hear that....too bad.....

 

[klamathpro]

One look at the shoddy blue launch edition confirms they need more time.

 

[VYPR BYT 94]

Just recieved a message from Gilles stating the following:

"Very well, we had some self imposed delays for quality reasons, so production will start in Dec! Welcome to twitter! "

I like that they are not rushing to production.. Quality has to be job #1 and evidently it is.

They can push it to March/April for all I care... just test, tweak and get 'er right.

 

[bluestreak]

I personally don't see SRT testing the GTS at all, because it's Ring time, while likely respectable, probably won't be all that spectacular compared to the Gen4 ACR. If and when SRT goes back to the Ring, it will likely be in a couple of years, with a dual-clutch ACR version, so as to maximize the return on investment, and post a high-water-mark laptime. Perhaps a car magazine will undertake the task of running the SRT GTS or SRT Viper first.

BTW, isn't it odd that McClaren and Ferrari can do no better than 7:28s, with their extremely high tech MP4-12C, and 458 Italia? The performance-to-cost ratio is sucking wind. I know they are elegant, refined, and owners like them more for their status and artistic value, but c'mon, for over $230,000, and sophisticated suspensions, exotic engines and all, they can't beat an old push-rod-engined ZO6? With the Vette even having far less horsepower? PS Cups can't be worth that much time alone? ***?
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

I agree, I doubt the GTS will be tested at all unless it's done by a magazine which I don't even know how many of these will be sold in Europe. Even then, beating the ZR'1 is far fetched especially with a magazine driver. And I doubt the Corsas are faster than Sport Cups.

As for McClaren and Ferrari, those were magazine times, not factory driver times, so not quite the same.

 

[shooter_t1]

As for McClaren and Ferrari, those were magazine times, not factory driver times, so not quite the same.

Those laps were done by Marc Basseng. Who is a German race car driver with lots of ring laps just like Dominik Farnbacher. How is that any different?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

First , let's comment on the race car and realize they announced this was all a developemental period and not even a full year. ALMS required them to literally be the heaviest car in the class and **** air through a straw in their severely detuned V10. Current situation,
ALMS has given them two straws to **** air through and let them shed a few pounds ---- let's see what they might do at the next event and try to keep the faith since we all waited so long for this to happen.

BPantax offers some good insight on the possibilities with the Gen V , but we all forget the new car could have up to 157 lbs less weight , has a new frame , new gears, and more hp. I think his extrapolation that when a new ACR comes out it will be about 2 seconds quicker is on the light side - sorry Bob. On a two mile track the rule of thumb is 100 lbs equals a 1 second drop in time. I think the weight reduction, power, and new frame will see a minimum of a 4 second gain and I don't think 7-8 is out of the realm of possiblity using this old fuzzy track math. Either way, it would not surprise me to see the new Snake take on VIR and some places in the US, and I think the King will finally be toppled by his son the Prince -- the heir apparent may be a year off, but I have faith in the engineers at SRT, since so many of them race themselves!!! Hail to the new King!

 

[Bobpantax]

I hope that you are right Bill. Let's see how the down force numbers, etc. work out.

 

[SnakeBitten]

With all the improvements I can see the normal Gen V Viper doing at least a 7:25 on the Ring. It does have some downforce along with all the improvements mentioned above so it is very possible it could achieve a similar time or exceed it with the right driver[Farnbacher].

I see no reason why a Gen V ACR cant be under 7 minute mark. I remember way back Ralph saying something about the next ACR is going to wilder than the Gen IV and have more power than the regular Viper. So its going to be lighter, stiffer, more powerful than the Gen IV ACR and its sure to have aero as well. With all that improvement over the 7:12 ACR I can easily see a 10-15 second improvement over the Gen IV ACR on a 13 mile long track. With its improvements its going to be gaining tenths of a second all over the place easily adding up to 10+ second improvement over the 7:12 time. IMHO of course. Cant wait for intial testing of the normal coupe so we have an idea of where it can go with the ACR treatment.

 

[PDCjonny]

Well if the new Gen 5 ACR (2014?) cannot handily beat the Gen 4 ACR (2007) something is woefully wrong.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Well if the new Gen 5 ACR (2014?) cannot handily beat the Gen 4 ACR (2007) something is woefully wrong.

Agreed. At the very "least" it should be 5 secs faster than the 2010 around a 13 mile track not 2-3 secs like some say imho. 2-3 secs better Id expect on VIR or shorter track not the Green Hell. The Gen IV ACR really set the bar very high so everyone is expecting a lot from the new ACR. That may or may not be fair but whatever it turns out to be its got HUGE shoes to fill.

 

[shooter_t1]

The Gen IV ACR really set the bar very high so everyone is expecting a lot from the new ACR. That may or may not be fair but whatever it turns out to be its got HUGE shoes to fill.

That about sums it up for me. It needs to be quite a bit quicker for me to spend the money I think its going to cost to get 1.

 

[Allan]

Didn't the ACR-X run a 7:03ish on the same day with the 7:12 ACR record run? Point being that a Viper chassis/powertrain already got close to the 7 second target. I know the X is more capable than a production ACR, but it is still a Viper. If the new car is what it is supposed to be, the main limitation seems to be the tires. Will the production run tires keep the car away from the 7 second possibility? I know that real track rubber would get it there easier, but for a record to be legit, doesn't the car have to be in stock trim?

 

[VYPR BYT 94]

Didn't the ACR-X run a 7:03ish on the same day with the 7:12 ACR record run? Point being that a Viper chassis/powertrain already got close to the 7 second target. I know the X is more capable than a production ACR, but it is still a Viper. If the new car is what it is supposed to be, the main limitation seems to be the tires. Will the production run tires keep the car away from the 7 second possibility? I know that real track rubber would get it there easier, but for a record to be legit, doesn't the car have to be in stock trim?

Allan, you mean 7 minute target right?
I know what you mean about the tires ... maybe in the past it was that way but now...??
Heck, that lexus lfa had a friggin roll cage (for "safety" of course ) and who knows what tires they used.
I just don't think it's a closely sanctioned as we would like.
Seems like like americans always take the high road in everything... I say use track rubber.
Mike

 

[kdaviper]

haha you mean not sanctioned at all?
And hopefully the 10mm wider tires will translate into a wider contact patch and softer rubber. Remember the tires they developed even have different compounds from front to back, specifically designed for this car.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Considering the ACR-X is about 3200lbs, 640hp, stiffer suspension and more aero [1350lbs] than standard ACR its no wonder it did a 7 minute time at the Ring. Those numbers give you a good idea of what the next ACR is going to have to have to get close to 7 minute mark or dip into the sub 7 minute mark.

Based on what Ralph had said in the past about the next gen ACR having more power than the normal coupe then I assume the hp for the next ACR will exceed 640hp. Ralph also said via twitter that the cars are coming in lighter than they planned hence the SUV ride height of the mules we were seeing. If true then a ******** Gen V ACR could very well be around the 3200lbs range like the ACR-X. If the next ACR is blessed with 1350lbs downforce and have the right suspension setup it can definitely be contending for the first production car to hit 7min flat or faster at the Ring.

Pure speculation on my part but its fun to see where the ACR could go if SRT got even more serious than last time.

 

[ACR steve]

Read it here first : 2014 or early release 2015 Viper ACR 6:59.7 seconds at the Ring - Unless all the freaks are right and the world ends before

 

[Allan]

Allan, you mean 7 minute target right?
I know what you mean about the tires ... maybe in the past it was that way but now...??
Heck, that lexus lfa had a friggin roll cage (for "safety" of course ) and who knows what tires they used.
I just don't think it's a closely sanctioned as we would like.
Seems like like americans always take the high road in everything... I say use track rubber.
Mike

...........oops , yes 7 MINUTES and small change. -I didn't have all my coffee yet.