Repair ACR shock ?

Discussion in 'Tire , Wheel, Brake and Suspension' started by okloneranger, Sep 21, 2007.

  1. okloneranger

    okloneranger Enthusiast

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    The left front shock on my 02 ACR is leaking - apparently from around the piston rod onto the main body. Does anyone know who repairs Dynamic Suspension shocks? The car has under 12K miles, and is not tracked. A Viper mechanic in this area told me as long as I take it easy I can probably drive it for a while longer. He also said he'd never seen or heard of one of these "leaking". Apart from giving my right arm to Dodge he had no answer except to try the internet. Your experience and expertise is appreciated.
     
  2. AFL in NJ

    AFL in NJ Enthusiast

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    Call JonB at PartsRack,

    He likely has one of them and once you replace it, supposedly you can send the old one to Koni and they have a rebuild program......that way if it ever happens again, you've got a spare handy.

    Regards,
    Aaron
     
  3. FE 065

    FE 065 Enthusiast

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    Username bloose on this forum was telling me where the ACR shocks were rebuilt a few months ago.
     
  4. HARDVIPER

    HARDVIPER Enthusiast

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  5. FE 065

    FE 065 Enthusiast

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    Forget to mention that oddly enough the left front on my '01 ACR has a little rattle to it-no signs of leaks on the ground yet though
     
  6. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    Feel free to PM for info. Cause of the leak is due to the exposed shaft to dirt, etc.. that eventually breaks down the primary dust seal. Once the dust seal passes contaminants, then the secondary fluid seal goes. Only way to avoid this is an outer dust boot / bellows. ACR dampers are rebuildable, and service can be provided.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2007
  7. JonB

    JonB Viper Owner

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    Aaron, thanks for the referral we have DSI shocks in stock, and we accept trade-ins.

    (ACR 99-2000.5 had KONI,,,,2005+ had DSI)
     
  8. JonB

    JonB Viper Owner

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    COMMON PROBLEM ............. Quite common. 2001-2002 alos need a rear-respring to fix the buck-board hard (dangerously so IMO) ride
     
  9. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    JonB - I can't send you a PM, send me a PM with an email address, this may be of interest to you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2007
  10. PatentLaw

    PatentLaw Enthusiast

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    First, I would like to point out that 2000 Black RT10 knows what he is talking about. There are very few on this board, including the experts, who have his knowledge on the shocks.

    Essentially, the shocks are rebuildable. The Dynamic System shocks are extremely costly, but the rebuild is cost effective.

    I don't want to be a pain here and try to sound like a know it all, but if you look at the service manual for the car, it SAYS that they should leak slightly. It is a NORMAL condition. The amount is what is at issue. Don't know what the situation is with your car without a picture or looking. Don't freak out, it should not cost 4k per shock.
     
  11. GforcesinCA

    GforcesinCA Viper Owner

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    I had all four DSI shocks replaced on my 02 ACR with Koni's just a few months ago and still have at least two (maybe three) that are good. If you want to PM me i would be happy to describe what i have and make you a good deal. IMO the DSI's are bunch of crap now that I know what the Koni's are like though. Chuck Tator (NE Viper Tech) did all the work and can also verify the condition on the DSI shocks he replaced. Good luck regardless!
    Greg
     
  12. FE 065

    FE 065 Enthusiast

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    Whatever else, I've never heard of a shock that's supposed to leak..

     
  13. kcobean

    kcobean Viper Owner

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    Hey Jon,
    What's the procedure to re-spring the rear, or more appropriately, where can softer springs be had? I'm tired of my car bouncing me off the headliner with these 1100 lb rear springs. :omg:

    Sorry for the thread-jack!
     
  14. PatentLaw

    PatentLaw Enthusiast

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    I refer you to page 2-28 of the Service Manual if you don't believe it.

    Best regards,

    Patentlaw
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2007
  15. kcobean

    kcobean Viper Owner

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    Well I'll be darned...and I quote:

    "A slight amount of seepage between the shock rod and seal is not unusual and does not affect performance of the shock absorber."
     
  16. JonB

    JonB Viper Owner

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    Hey Kelly: " Where can the springs be had" ?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!??!?!?!?!!

    Now THATS funny !!!!!!! "If It Fits On Or In a VIPER..................."

    2000 Black RT/10 please email me at: [email protected]
    I look forward to hearing from you.
    My schedule cannot tolerate PMs/ IMs, sorry...
     
  17. kcobean

    kcobean Viper Owner

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    LOL...Ok ok, I deserved that one. As a person who sits at a computer all day long (and works for a internet-based services company), I keep forgetting that a SMALL sample of your inventory is actually listed on your web-site, so please forgive my lapse. Hey at least I didn't make that post on a Monday! ;)

    Thanks Jon.

    Kelly




     
  18. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    Hi Greg - I sent a PM, no reply yet, but I just wanted to address your reply since it relates to where I work.

    There are some interesting points you made, and it was briefly discussed.

    First of all, the ACR is intended to be a race version of the Viper. Most aren't aware of the higher maintenance required with higher end racing components. In the world of race cars (F1 / Indy / etc..) dampers can be rebuilt every race. The original Post author is encountering issues at 12k miles, heck that would be quite a few laps around a race track..

    What you have is a specialty Viper with race type dampers. The point you make that Konis are better, well this sounds to be true for yourself because it appears you simply need street dampers, not race dampers. OEM street dampers are designed for durability on the street. For example, you cannot drive a race engine on the street and expect it to last long without maintenance. Same applies for dampers, they are race dampers not designed for high miles on the street without maintenance, they can be used on the street yet maintenance is required. Another example on race cars is solid suspension bushings, they need lube, whereas a low tech rubber bushing does not and is a disadvantage regarding handling, there's endless examples, I think you understand my point..

    Absolutely no offense intended regarding Chuck Tators' feedback you implied, yet I get the impression Chuck is not involved with F1 / Indy / etc.. and developing race components. To expect the durability in comparison to a low tech street damper is like comparing apples to oranges. The advantages of a race damper regarding handling is what was intended for the ACR.

    Another mentioned the rear springs are too stiff on the ACR. I think there are several who may have purchased and ACR simply because it is an ACR and neglecting to factor it is a race version requiring additional maintenace, especially if it's not used on a track.

    It's confusing to read sometimes, say if you dropped in a 50k race engine into a car, drove it on the street, complained it puffed smoke and it didn't last as long as the engine in the minivan so it must be junk, it just doesn't make any sense.

    That's it. I also PM'd okloneranger, no reply either. Just trying to help out, not stir things up. If you need any assistance, it's just a friendly gesture to help out the club and nothing more.

    Mike
     
  19. FE 065

    FE 065 Enthusiast

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    I have to defer. Motorcycles having long travel suspensions, and often living in a dusty environment, go for extended periods, if not indefinitely, with shocks that don't leak, much less leak on purpose. Which is bs if I ever heard it. Regardless of what the service manual says.

    Someone will have to explain to me just which parts on the DSI shocks are so much better than the internals typically found in OE shocks, that makes it OK that their O rings etc fail prematurely in a street driven application.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2007
  20. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    It's ok to defer, there's always more to learn that way. Long travel motorcycle shocks that last indefinitely. Less load, less stress, less fluid pressure. My 640cc KTM weighs 350 lbs. Apples to oranges again, actually apples to grapes.. Pressure spikes in a 3400 lb car with 4 dampers is much different than a 350 lb bike with 3 dampers. It's not just about travel.

    There's a reason why race dampers such as the ACR dampers are rebuildable, they are adjustable, turn the dials and the pressure on the seals change significantly. Don't forget that DS supplies many OEM street dampers which are sealed and non rebuildable that last on the street, which may be ideal for yourself if that's the concern rather than handling / vehicle dynamics. Race type of adjustable dampers require maintenance and rebuilds.

    For those who don't want to rebuild components, stick to the street application stuff. Heck if you knew what the high dollar race teams pay for their dampers and rebuild them after a race, you're inquiring about decades of damper development involved with supporting top race teams hoping that there is a solution for a long lasting race damper which never needs to be rebuilt?

    It's all ok, but it's tough to explain to those who aren't exposed to the high end racing applications. It's all about high performance not high mileage reliability. Typical DS dampers such as the ACR weigh 1/3 the weight of Konis btw, hopefully this is something of importance for those who race cars, in which the key constraints in a race car is weight and performance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2007
  21. PatentLaw

    PatentLaw Enthusiast

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    One of the best threads that alot of people can use. Thanks for your continued valuable input and help to the community.
     
  22. FE 065

    FE 065 Enthusiast

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    You're still generalizing instead of pinpointing...and keep referring to race teams and their rebuild schedules..which they'd do whether they thought it was required or not, just to stay competitive or avoid a DNF, as to somehow make ok the faults in these shocks.

    Having adjustable shocks on a street driven vehicle doesn't have to automatically mean frequent rebuilds. Are Motons leaking all the time? Here's a quote from one website selling Motons.. They do not require constant maintenence to ensure they work properly

    What's the weight of the DS dampers have to do with rebuild intervals?

    It's not about you btw, or wanting to rebuild components, it's about whether these shocks are under-engineered or not. Your posts more or less imply that it's impossible to achieve long term reliability with such a shock.

    I say it's not too much to ask. There aren't any hi perf motorcycle shocks that the manuf says are going to leak just a little bit-so don't worry etc. They'd never stay in business.

    Seals letting oil leak out means air's also leaking in doesn't it?

    Crap. I don't buy it. "Not being exposed to high end racing applications" doesn't apply to an application on a street driven car and the relative low stress those shocks see. That is apples and grapes ..:crazy2:


    - I did spend 10 yrs at GM's Proving Grounds in MI. Leaking shocks would have never been acceptable.

    :)
     
  23. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    Ok, you're on a mission.. I'll play.

    First question - What street car did GM offer an adjustable race type of damper on?

    Second question - Regarding a vague statement from the Moton website you quoted.. what does - "They do not require constant maintenance" imply?

    Reply - Rebuilds are required due to the wear and tear of using light weight / less dense materials. If you manufactured a damper using high carbon steel (higher density material), etc.. for all the components, sure it would weigh 5 times as much and last longer, yet high performance dampers utilize lighter alloys which are susceptible to wear, yet this is not a concern for racing competitions since winning that race is the only important factor of that day. Lightweight internals respond quicker, overall the dampers are lighter, etc. I have to emphasise again that it's all about weight and performance in the racing industry.


    :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2007
  24. GforcesinCA

    GforcesinCA Viper Owner

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    Mike - thanks for the info and reply to my post. You make a lot of valid points. My earlier comments should be viewed as a novice that uses the car 95% on street. All i know is that despite some repeated adjusting i could not get the ride to soften out enough to stop the "bouncing" - which probably wouldnt have been the case on tracks where candy stripes are the only real road hazard. Could be it was more spring than shock but with the Koni's it doesnt happen.

    After about 5k miles, two of the DSI shocks were "blown" - a technical term Tator used. I actually had insurance to cover the parts but when Tator called dodge they said they dont stock DSI anymore and the insurance would only pay for Dodge "stocked" or "certified" replacement parts or some BS like that. Anyway, i ended up getting about $13k in Koni shocks for my deductibe of $100 and the ride is better -for my novice butt zooming around the highway anyway!
     
  25. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    That sounds like an unfortunate situation, glad it worked out in the end. I still have the stock Konis on my 2000 RT/10 street car, surely I could get a set of race dampers, but I don't need them because this car doesn't see the track. My daily driving is just county roads, I don't find it necessary to have race inspired adjustable damper / stiff springs on my street car.

    I don't work in sales, I work in engineering.. so the practical application of a damper type overrides the desire for stuff that is not suited for the conditions. DS does offer non-adjustable street dampers, purpose built to last & non-rebuildable.

    For those that do race, oh.. it is a must have for Dynamic Suspension race dampers, google the applications / race teams utilizing them, very high tech stuff is available for the track, check out the DSSV dampers.

    www.dynamicsuspensions.com (Plus it's a good site to read up on dampers, free software / downloads, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2007
  26. 01ACR/VIPER

    01ACR/VIPER Viper Owner

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    I did not see a name on my shocks.what would be the stock ones on my 01 acr?mine are blue and gold .
     
  27. kcobean

    kcobean Viper Owner

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    You have the Dynamic Suspensions shocks and the 1100 lb rear springs (assuming stock springs). If you have the ride-height adjustment tool for 'em, hold on to it, because they're quite difficult to find anymore.

    Kelly
     
  28. 01ACR/VIPER

    01ACR/VIPER Viper Owner

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    Well, i did a respring on mine.Jon at partsrack got me the 800lb springs.alot better ride for sure.but,i still need to have one of them rebuilt(i can feel the difference bettween the good and the bad)new springs is a must for sure.:2tu:
     
  29. kcobean

    kcobean Viper Owner

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    I'm guessing that a respring to the 800 pounders will cause the shocks to fail much sooner than they would with the stock springs. Perhaps the valving is 'tuned' to an 1100 lb spring and with the softer springs allowing both more rapid compression and longer travel, the piston seals are getting much more stress....a theory anyway.
     
  30. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    I you need help since you notice a difference, let me know, you know where we're at and the shop rate, feel free to call again if needed. :2tu:

    I did ask about changing the rear springs, your drop to 800 lbs, the significant issue is the change in front to rear distribution, regarding vehicle dynamics, during dive, braking, etc. If you want the dampers retuned internally for the lighter springs and less harsh of a ride, it can be done. Rule of thumb is a change in 30% spring rate requires damper adjustment internally. It's not the wear & tear being an issue, it's changing the overall vehicle dynamics since the front and rear dampers are designed for that spring rate. Our facility sets up top race cars, so whether to take this advice as being extreme for street use is up to the Viper owner, but our damper expert just replied with a simple answer (regarding changing the springs only) - "I wouldn't do it".

    Mike
     

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