Replace front tires too?(for traction only)

[GTS1997]

I will be buying PS2s some time in the future, to replace my PS(1)s. I don’t drive my viper too often, I never plan on taking it to a track or a road course. On occasion I do a quick 0-80 mph run on the highway. Here’s my question: If I just replace just the back tires (there by saving some money) for traction, how will keeping the front PS(1)s hurt me? My PS(1)s are old but they have plenty of tread.

In a perfect world I wouldn’t worry about the extra money for brand new front tires, but I have to budget, and I’m not sure how replacing the front tires would benefit me as much as replacing the rear tires.


Please school me on the importance of buying front tires in addition to back tires. Again keep in mind that I will not be on a track or a road course.

Also if anyone believes that I will not be endangering myself by keeping my PS(1)s on the front (they are old but they have plenty of tread left) please speak up also.

I’d like to hear both viewpoints on this.

Thanks!

 

[dave6666]

Tire salesman will say your old tires are dangerous. They will also caution you on the mismatch as you describe.

People that either are smart or like to have fun - and know how to - will say keep the old tires and understand their capabilities.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[ViperGTS]

How long to you want to keep your Viper?

If you cant afford new tires for the Viper, sell it.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[DrumrBoy]

You may be able to get away with it but personally I'd find it annoying and potentially dangerous to get used to grip in the back (and baby the front) and then "forget" and hit a turn too hot for the weaker fronts. As in NASCAR, a two-tire change is a calculated risk....

 

[plumcrazy]

i just replaced the fronts recently. i had a problem with one of them (not due to the tires fault) so i replaced both fronts. you can feel the difference. the front of the car feels more steady in turns.

of course on the highway you cant tell though.

 

[kenmo]

I just replaced all 4 of my tires via SRT-10 wheels/tires. I feel a whole lot better "playing around" with the car now. Rear wheels actually hook up, so I'm sure the fronts are doing their job as well.

I don't have a whole lot of money either bud. Be patient and look for a deal to pop up.

 

[FATHERFORD]

I personally would have no problems driving with some older front tires...

Of course I drove a mustang with 15x3.5 wheels up front and 15x10 wheels out back as a DD for over a year. You just have to know the limitations.

 

[BruceW]

I tried it and very quickly replaced the fronts...and the fronts weren't that old. The car was skittering all over the road with the slightest bump or rut.

 

[dave6666]

I tried it and very quickly replaced the fronts...and the fronts weren't that old. The car was skittering all over the road with the slightest bump or rut.

Were the old fronts Pilot Sports or PS2's? Or something else? And what did you put on the back?

 

[BruceW]

I had the old PS's up front (no more than 2 years old) and new PS2's in back.

 

[dave6666]

I had the old PS's up front (no more than 2 years old) and new PS2's in back.

The directional Pilot Sport has a reputation for being darty. My car was. I can only image with the grooved tires on back what that must have been like.

 

[JonB]

"""My PS(1)s are old but they had plenty of tread.""""

The most famous words on Viper Insurance Claim paperwork.....



'Tire Salesman' is baloney...facts are facts

You are building in (more) UNDERSTEER, and doing it with malice of forethought. The fronts wont corner anywhere nearly as well as the rears. This is a case of "Fat-Dumb-Happy" til a dog-deer-old lady pulls out in front, or debris or a pothole appears too fast, or your cell-phone distracts, and you have to go evasive.

You have rear traction at great limts, but your fronts wont hook up / evade. And it is happening too fast to even say; "Ahhh, sheet, I shoulda bought 4.... CRASH! "

You can be LUCKY,,,,,,or you can be SMART........ Luck favors the Prepared Mind....so if you are DRIFTING or AutoCrossing you are PREPARED. Even then, you want OVERSTEER, not UNDER! On the street you are not prepared on mis-matched, old tires.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Simple .........................different compounds, different ages, different tread design, different grip.

Kinda like trying to hold off a family by using a 10 year old ******. Probably be okay, but do you want to take the chance?

Those of us that have raced for years , or even been lucky enough to do tire testing , will advise as Jon did --- get a new set and save your life instead of trying to save a little money.

 

[dave6666]

When I had my front tire mishap with my Pilot Sports, Discount Tire has to buy me a new front tire because of my road hazard warranty. They could no longer get the Pilot Sport, so I went with the PS2. Just one on the front to keep the car rolling as I went ahead and ordered my 20/19's.

So, (3) 2-year old Pilot Sports and (1) brand new PS2. Car did not feel any different handling wise under high speed and cornering conditions. You could not tell it was different.

 

[JonB]

............So, (3) 2-year old Pilot Sports and (1) brand new PS2. Car did not feel any different handling wise under high speed and cornering conditions. You could not tell it was different.

YOU could not tell........ {Your traction control needs help!.} In a PANIC BRAKE, I promise you that the softer, stickier front tire will begin to SPIN the car to the opposite side..... Like I said, when you are crusing along FD&H it wont matter much. AT THE LIMITS is when the poop hits the blades......because the Limits are waaaay different!

Simple ..........different compounds, different ages, different tread design, different grip.... Probably be okay, but do you want to take the chance?..............

Same goes for an UNDERINFLATED tire..... can you feel that ? In a stiff-chassis Viper, it should be recognizable. Different handling characteristics just by being LOW.

"Mismatch OK" advice may get a guy wrecked or hurt, just because, thank god, you've been LUCKY so far.

I have been a fisherman for years....it takes a "feel" to know then a fish bumps the lure / bait / fly vs a rock or a ****. I can catch fish all day long, between would-be-fisherman who feel nothing, and catch only weeds. They say Im LUCKY ! A good fisherman has the 'touch.' A good fisherman can tell you WHAT is on the line, and a close weight estimate.

Lucky anglers also catch some fish.....

 

[Leslie]

People that either are smart or like to have fun - and know how to - will say keep the old tires and understand their capabilities.

I am smart, and I like to have fun....

And I say get rid of those front tires before they get rid of you.

JMHO.

 

[dave6666]

I'm only stating an experience, not giving a recommendation.

And another experience I have with every vehicle I've owned is know what cha brung and drive it accordingly. Common sense to not exceed your equipment has been working for me some time now. If you are talking about nth degree driving then of course you need nth degree equipment.

Here's the usage the OP states in his first post:

I never plan on taking it to a track or a road course. On occasion I do a quick 0-80 mph run on the highway.

Hardly nth degree stuff.

You track rats can preach your nth degree experiences as well as I can my common sense ones. I'm sure the OP will buy new tires here now. Good for him, good for the tire salesmen.

 

[AZTVR]

In a perfect world I wouldn’t worry about the extra money for brand new front tires, but I have to budget, and I’m not sure how replacing the front tires would benefit me as much as replacing the rear tires.


Please school me on the importance of buying front tires in addition to back tires. Again keep in mind that I will not be on a track or a road course.

I'm just reiterating what has already been said; but, here is how I simplify it.

By just replacing the rear tires, you have big wide sticky tires that want to drive the car straight. You now don't have comparable traction in the front to make the car turn. You forget that you aren't on a track and you make a hard left hand turn kind of fast because you are in a great handling sportscar. You end up hitting the curb and running up on the sidewalk with your right side tires, damaging at least the front right wheel and tire and A-arm. (Been there, done that. Not with a Viper and not with mismatched tires; but, just by being a cheap SOB and buying tires that were not up to what I decided to do that moment, driving a car that I knew could do it, if it weren't for the low grip tires.) That's what the folks are warning against; but, they have seen or read of much worse results.

 

[WILDASP]

The problem is that while you are not PLANNING to go near the limits (as in on the track) a sudden evasive manuever on the street can put you at the limits quickly, and totally unplanned. That's what several people here are trying to tell you. Just remember, it only takes once, and there are more surprises on the street than on the track. I'm just saying.

 

[dave6666]

The fence remains firmly planted.

Track rats - You never know when you will have a sudden burst of irresponsibility and do something stupid, or a shopping cart suddenly appears on the freeway loaded with octuplets being pushed by their desperate mommy.

Common sense crowd - Don't over drive your equipment.

Jon B claims above that I don't push my car enough to tell the difference. Well duh, then there's the freakin' answer. I don't get into the danger zone. Deal with that. And it appears there are others here that drive responsibly.

While on the subject of vehicular preparedness, other things that I would be caught "pants down" on:

-> Nuclear or biological attack. My ready kit is in the F350; no place in the Snake.

-> Sneezing. WhereTF do you put the tissue box?

-> Subwoofer. I've been driving around with crappy bass for 3 years now. No traction issues thank God.

Really though, to be as prepared for EVERYTHING that could possibly happen to you in your Viper would need a circumferential roll cage with pressurized cockpit, locating beacon, and survival kit. You never know.

 

[DJ'sviper]

I just bought all 4, thanks tire rack. Is it really worth the chance for 700 bucks? I really couldn't afford it either, but then I figured I could not afford not to buy them. They'll get paid someday on my credit card and the piece of mind is worth it. Want to buy 4 old equally hard tires? Great thread if you want to spin them off.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Not to argue with Dave, but....

Its really more about balance and predictability than about preparing for 120 mph exit ramp challenges....though the latter can be strangely satisfying.

Driving within the limits of one's equipment is much easier when the equipment is balanced and predictable. Sure, you could learn to drive within the limits of a push-friendly front end with old hard tires....at the extreme you could put steel tires on the front and learn to drive within the limits of that set up, but but that'd certainly be more tricky (and way slower) than driving properly on good tires.

OK, my rant is over....

 

[FATHERFORD]

I agree with Dave 100%....

Like I said, I drove on 15x3.5" wheels which were 165R15 VW Bug front tires with some sticky fat drag radial out back. Rain or shine, traffic or none. You just have to know your car and drive it responsibly.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I have said this in the past and been nailed by my opinion. Less traction in the front causes understeer which is the most predictable and correctable handling flaw. That is why cars have designed in understeer to begin with.

As far as providing poor handling characteristic in an emergency maneuver you are correct. A Viper with mismatched tires will have lessened handling capability and predictability than a Viper with new tires on it. But then how about that same mismatched tire Viper compared to a Ford Pinto with 10 year old tires on it. Which would you rather be in when in an emergency situation? The Viper with mismatched tires, no doubt. So are all cars with worse handling characteristics a hazard for the street. No. Just drive within the cars (and your own) capability and you will be fine. No one should be at 90% or anywhere close on the street anyway.

 

[jdeft1]

Maybe look at Kumhos. They're cheaper but still have good dry performance if not as good wet... and you can replace all four for a bit more than just two PS2s for the rear. They may be the best option if you're concerned about balance (tire grip and budget).

my .02

 

[Vreracing]

I feel like I should argue more with Jon B when I talk to him. I just blindly follow his advice. It's worked so far. By the way, I tried to buy just the two PS2's from him. I ended up with 4. Boy do they feel great.

 

[JonB]

I will be buying PS2s some time in the future, to replace my PS(1)s. ......................Please school me on the importance of buying front tires in addition to back tires. ....................Also if anyone believes that I will not be endangering myself by keeping my PS(1)s on the front (they are old but they have plenty of tread left) please speak up also. I’d like to hear both viewpoints on this.
Thanks!

SO, ineedaviper, what do you think? You scored an ABUNDANCE of opinions and yet are strangely silent....?

 

[Paul Hawker]

If you were replacing the tires for traction, here is another point of view.

Most Viper owners want sticky rear tires for better accelleration.

A main reason for sticky front tires is for braking.

If you're gonna accellerate quickly, you need to also be prepared to brake quickly.

Congratulations on your new, fresh tires. Nothing feels better than a car (especially a Viper) with new sticky tires.

 

[Sweet Ride]

...In a perfect world I wouldn’t worry about the extra money for brand new front tires, but I have to budget...

If you want to save money buy these:

Kumho Tire USA, Inc.

I'm running them on my car now and love 'em!

I bet there's a site sponsor or two that can help you out (JonB, Woodhouse, Tire Rack, et al.).

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Common Sense guys --------------well, time to put your Adidas shoe on one foot and your leather soled dress shoe on the other. Can you still walk, of course, but have fun if it starts raining , or if you hit a sandy patch on the sidewalk, and I sure hope you don't have to run across the street in a hurry because suddenly a car is out of control -------whoops, it is that Viper with various tires that the driver was exercising his own common sense level of driving, but he had no idea that another car and now a guy with the funny shoe would pop into his path and an emergency manuever needed to take place....

Not trying to be rude,just realistic and maybe a bit dramatic, but Jon and I are really talking about safety , and it has nothing to do about whether we are track rats. Frankly you are often safer on the track than on the street, but knowing your limits has nothing to do with reality, as many issues are out of your control. Who wants a high horsepower sports car to be shackled with a questionable footprint. Frankly it is a question that should be asked among friends, and friends don't let their friends drive a 190 -200 mph beast with flip flops and track shoes. This, to me, is like not wearing helmet when your are on a track --- it illustrates how much you value yourself. Please take care of your car and yourself and get a full matching set . We love you man!