Roe's cats vs. Random Tech's

Got_Vnum

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After reading the posts with all the problems some are having with Random Tech cats (and the problems getting RT to replace cats under warranty), I'm wondering if Roe's would be a better choice given Sean's superb customer service reputation? Has anyone had similar problems with Roe's cats or problems getting them replaced under warranty? Has anyone done a comparison with Roe's vs. RT's on the same car?
 

plumcrazy

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had a problem with roe cats. but mine were bought 2 years ago so im assuming he gets them from a different mfg now.

the drivers side cat ended up getting gutted and parts went out the back of the car while i was driving.

passenger side was half gutted
 

PDCjonny

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My Roe cats leaked like sieves after less than two years, causing the wrapped insulation to smolder. Chuck T had to spot weld them in multiple places to seal them up. I went with the Random Techs/Corsa cat back on my '97 just a few weeks ago.
 

HI-NOS-Viper

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I think that you are confusing the RT CATS with the Roe CATS.

DrDJ
Nope, have heard from a reputable Viper tuner Shop that RT cats have there share of problems as well, like the front mounts breaking.
 

dave6666

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OK. Different angle. So who has had NO problems with their cats? And what kind were they?

Might be important to add:

What climate? Wet? Salty roads?

Do you wash your car often?

Do you drive after getting it wet to dry the sills?

Do you have wrap on the cats?

Do you dry the wrap by driving if it gets wet?

Do your sills have the vent mod in the front?

What tune? Rich means more work by the cats doesn't it?

What mounts and dampeners?

Why would I care about all this? I'm shopping for HF cats, and I think just saying they did or did not work is very narrow minded.
 

GTSnake

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no problems with my metal random techs. Had them for about 10k miles didn't notice anything about them. After they were installed I pretty much forgot they were even on.
 

PDCjonny

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I'm a firm believer that wrapping the cats in any insulation is detrimental to their longevity. Holds moisture in, heat soak much longer IMO. Can't be good.
 

Catwood

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I'm in need of cats now. Mine were wrapped and perhaps that caused an early failure. I also track the car and they are subject to the added vibs and such. The existing substrate came out the tailpipe hitting another car in the windshiels and boy did that leave a mark.

I considering going with the RT Metal ones.
 

Kmrumedy

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Had Random Tech cats installed 5 weeks ago. Welded not clamped and no wrapping insulation. That is important. Not a simple bolt/clamped on mod like it is presented. Had to cut and weld several parts because of manufacturing inconsistency but turned out great. If I didn't have a more experienced person helping me I never could have done this on my own. I don't have the welding skills.

Very early but absolutely no issues so far.

Climate - 4 seasons here. car comes out in May (60 degrees) August hits the 90's with high humidity. Sept to Nov - low 60's to low teens. Dry. Never drive car in rain or salt.

Wash car every second weekend.

Yes, drive car about 1 - 2 hours after washing to dry out all the cracks

no wrap on cats

No vent mod on the front. Want to keep car as stock as possible. Many do this mod.

Did a lot of research to chose the right solution. I have never heard of people have serious issues with this Randomtech solution which is why I bought it. The only issues I found of leaking were from those that used clamps instead of welding.

Would be curious to know what issues are out there and what to look for before something serious happens.....just to be safe.
 

TAXIMAN1

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I have the 3' ceramic Random Tech Cats, for 2 years now, no problems at all...The best(and only) mod I did.. Not a ton of miles though(maybe 1000). I welded EVERYTHING. The band clamps leaked all over the place... Great sound, combined the with Corsa exhaust. LOWER heat than going catless(yes, I tried catless). And they are small. This way they fit inside the sill without coming into direct contact with the factory insulation, and allowing airflow. THIS IS HUGE!!!!!! And the key to keeping side sill temps down.

Thats the biggest problem with the stock cats.. Those things are cannon's, and jammed in so tight, they dont allow airflow. Look at every viper(even a low mileage car). The area where the stock cat sits is completely charred, to the point the insulation falls apart.

Agree with everyone else comments.. DO NOT wrap the cats.... That insulation keeps all that heat surrounding the cat. NOT GOOD... Ive tried it all, catless, Roe Insulation, etc.. The best way is to do the high-flows, and no wrap.. The muffler still touches the insulation, which is ok.. The heat fromt he muffler, is not even close to what comes from the cat.. I also did not want to cut the ears off of my wheel well, to install screens..
 
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RTTTTed

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I had Roe HF Cats on my Viper with no problems, I never expected any.

Ted
 

JonB

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After reading the posts with all the problems some are having with Random Tech cats (and the problems getting RT to replace cats under warranty),

FACTS:
Out of several hundred pairs sold, there have been 5 SRT-10 warranty claims to date.
None were denied. One of these claims was a double. The lowered, high HP car had bracket issues twice. No SRT10 warranty claim for a defect was ever refused....replacements sent UP FRONT in fact. These issues seem to be related to lowered cars and/or higher HP, flexing the motor mounts so much the weld cracked on a cat bracket.

{Better motor mounts also help SHIFTING a lot! No more missed shifts}

Being the accessible, responsible company they are, (one who declares flow rates and manufactures the cats FOR the SRT10) Random Tech quickly modifed the design to fix the problem.

PartsRack could call these "PartsRack Cats" if we wanted to cloud or disguise their origin. We do not. We tell you what you are buying, and who built it. We also stand behind the warranty of that disclosed manufacturer. The warranty is 5 years, and there are scores and scores of happy owners and dealers. {But the same 2-3 disgruntled, anonymous posters or PM-ers "mikey hates everything" cannot change these facts.} THANK YOU for your open-minded inquiry!
 
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JonB

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I'm a firm believer that wrapping the cats in any insulation is detrimental to their longevity. Holds moisture in, heat soak much longer IMO. Can't be good.

CORRECT!

"Catalytic" is a heat reaction, meant to operate at a specific temp range. The semi-precious washes on the substrate act as a catalyst with the exhaust gasses, and the proper heat range neutralizes the C0.

Wrap the cats and you INCREASE the internal temps dramatically, making them less effective and shortening their life. Not to mention the electrolytic corrosion issues due to wash-water or rain mixing with sifted road minerals film and dust.

These issues were also discussed and stated by Team Viper at a VOI-8 tech session
 

dave6666

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Jon, the other Viper Wizard has spoken.

Thanks Jon.

It would still be nice to hear from people that have had problems, pointing out the applicable details from maybe my list above that could have contributed to that problem.

We call that learning by your mistakes or experiences.

"Mine broke," is not useful.
 

PDCjonny

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Wrap the cats and you INCREASE the internal temps dramatically, making them less effective and shortening their life. Not to mention the electrolytic corrosion issues due to wash-water or rain mixing with sifted road minerals film and dust. These issues were also discussed and stated by Team Viper at a VOI-8 tech session

What he said.
Mine didn't last two years, wrapped.
So why do they (and you know who THEY is) still sell this product if it cause premature failure? There must be considerable feedback on this since it's been around for years.
 

ViperTony

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CORRECT!

"Catalytic" is a heat reaction, meant to operate at a specific temp range. The semi-precious washes on the substrate act as a catalyst with the exhaust gasses, and the proper heat range neutralizes the C0.

Wrap the cats and you INCREASE the internal temps dramatically, making them less effective and shortening their life. Not to mention the electrolytic corrosion issues due to wash-water or rain mixing with sifted road minerals film and dust.

These issues were also discussed and stated by Team Viper at a VOI-8 tech session

Hijacked... JonB: Does metallic substrate vs. ceramic make a difference in this case? In fact, what is the difference between these two types of material for cats? As I understood it, ceramic cats are best suite for non-S.C. applications and help produce a more mellow exhaust note whereas the metallic substrate are meant for serious HP and produce a more pronounced exhaust note.
 

KenH

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I have run the RT 3" ceramic cats for about 4 years and 25K miles with no problems. Half of that time was with a Roe SC under all types of driving conditions except road course. They are welded in with no wrap. I am also running headers and no flex pipe, so I am probably putting quite a bit of stress on them.

Had I known that I was going to put a SC on, I would have gone with the RT metal cats instead since they flow better.

I think another variable in losing the core is how rich a car is running. There are a lot of Vipers running around pig rich and that is pretty ******* a cat from what I understand.
 
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Got_Vnum

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At least we have firmly established that wrapping any part of the exhaust system on a Viper is BAD idea. No smoking sidesills for me thank you. Sorry to hear about your problems ViperJon. "I think your car is on fire"....I'm sure that was a precious moment for you ;)

The owners that had the problem with the Random Techs were SRT guys, so maybe theres some special issue with flexing/breaking specific to the SRT. I have a GTS so maybe mine will be okay. Going catless not an option living in CA, and will be too loud (yes go ahead and flame me for that comment).

The other suggestion I got from DC Performance was "upgrading" to stock SRT cats since they have a 3'' inlet/oulet compared to my stock GTS's 2.5''. Any thoughts on that?

BTW - JonB - "PartsRackCats" - thats kinda catchy...it even rhymes. I say go with it! Thanks for your input. Most likely, Dan Cragin will be calling you with my order shortly. If it wasn't for your Belanger Blowout sale I wouldn't even be having this discussion :)
 
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dave6666

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I think another variable in losing the core is how rich a car is running. There are a lot of Vipers running around pig rich and that is pretty ******* a cat from what I understand.

With the purpose of the cat is to deal with unburnt fuel, AKA hydrocarbons, then yup, rich cars likely mean hotter cats. Catalytic reactions like that are obviously exothermic.

And all that adds up to shorter cat life.

Not that I care how long cats live. My sister has twelve cats. I hate cats.
 

Sean Roe

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I’d like to clear the air a little bit about the cats.
There are only a few companies that manufacture converter substrate. The primary differences between the substrates are the number of open cells per inch and the material the substrate is comprised of.
Until a few years ago, most substrates used were ceramic and a fairly high cell per inch design.
Fast forward through the product development to today.
Now we have very open metallic substrate cats at very affordable prices.
It really doesn’t matter who you get them from. They work.
We do not manufacture the substrates, and neither does RT.
Today, (not two years ago or even six months ago), when making a replacement cat set, we have a very defined and refined process in order to make them easy to install.
If you have a stock exhaust system and are replacing the stock four substrate cats with single high flow metallic ones, you have to cut the factory pipe at the leading edge of the cat. The cat is welded to the pipe. There’s enough straight pipe to slide a new pipe onto and clamp. Clamping works if the pipe is swelled to the correct ID. If not, it should be welded. The pipe is not 2.5”. We had to create a die for our Huth tubing machine to swell the 2.5’OD stainless pipe we use to the correct ID and we put slits in it after so the round clamps will compress it properly.
On the outlet end of the stock cat, it slides into the stock muffler and is clamped. We manufacture our replacement set to be the correct length so it does the same.
The times today when you hear of people having leaks are when the cat change is not as straight forward as above. Throw in different combinations of headers and cat backs and a lot of times you get into a cut and weld type of situation. The exhaust clamps most use are not designed to crush down thick wall exhaust pipe or pipe that is too large in diameter.
As far as our shop is concerned, this process has been just that, a process, over a period of time, which has been refined. I’ll gladly put our cats up against an RT replacement cat today.
The features of the cats we offer today are as follows:
- 200 cell per inch catalyst provides significantly less backpressure for better flow, higher horsepower and torque.
- Metal foil catalyst withstands extreme pressures and vibration that can crumble ceramic catalyst.
- Stainless steel construction for corrosion resistance (we weld on 304 stainless pipe and use stainless wire also).
- High tech NANO was coat meets OBD2 requirements despite larger cell size and reduced surface area.
- No Interam matting to blow out under pressure from forced induction or high horsepower engines.

Regarding the ceramic exhaust wrap (that does not burn and is not flammable), that item works well for what it was intended to do, but we no longer offer it. It retains more moisture than I’d like. I still have it on my own car. People can still buy the standard exhaust wrap from Summit if they’d like.

Regards,
Sean
 

PDCjonny

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Regarding the ceramic exhaust wrap (that does not burn and is not flammable), that item works well for what it was intended to do, but we no longer offer it. It retains more moisture than I’d like. I still have it on my own car. People can still buy the standard exhaust wrap from Summit if they’d like.

Regards,
Sean

Perhaps "burn" is not the right word. How about melt?
Rest assured, that the ceramic exhaust wrap will break down, melt and cause considerable smoke when subjected to the heat generated by leaks emanating from the high flo cats. My cats developed multiple leaks and did exactly that. They had to be repaired and rewelded in the weakened spots. They were two years old, as was the wrap.
 

Catwood

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I have/had the wrap that I bought from Roe Racing, but's it seems to be a fiberglass like material. Is this really ceramic? It does make you itch like fiberglass after handling it.
It was 4 sheets of material, 2 per side. My side sills were alot cooler after the install I have to say which was a benefit. Not sure if that caused my cats to fail or if the track NVH did them in. They were installed before I bought the car when the header went in....(belanger system).
 

PAvenomRT/10

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I live in PA but only drive in good weather, never in the winter with salt on the roads. i have had RT cats on my Viper for over 3 years now and have not had any problems.
PAvenom RT/10
 

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