Should I have lost against a Porsche Turbo?

[DanElam]

You didn't say much about the course you were driving, so that might have something to do with it too. I just drove my buddy's 993 TT this weekend at Lowes. It ended up with over $20K of damage after I drove it (another story, another thread, or you can see the results at www.elams.org)

Anyways, I was pretty curious to match it up to the Viper since the cars get compared a lot. First, I have never been a Porsche fan, but it has been mostly about the styling. I have always admired the performance they get out of those packages that surround you in sedan-like luxury. I have to confess that they are better daily drivers.

0-30 isn't much of a contest. The Viper excels at low RPM torque. But the twin turbos are amazingly smooth and I thought it actually pulled better than a GTS in the 40-70 range. The Viper seemed to do better job in the fun 70-110/120 range. I did think that the Porsche still had some amazing power left at the high end of the band and had it up a little below 160MPH.

So, could you lose to a Porsche TT? Yes, in certain situations it seems like you could based on my experience. If you run a road course though, the Viper had much better balance and was easier to drive fast. (They are both relatively hard cars to drive at the very edge, but the Porsche still gets tail-happy sooner than the Viper.)

Either way, the whole topic just consumes bandwidth in another one of those Viper/Porsche/Ferrari/Z06/Lambo arguments that you see on this board and the Porsche, Ferrari, Vette, etc. boards.

viva la difference!

-Dan

 

[NosLaser]

I posted assuming that onerare's car was stock so that was my fault. Stock for stock there is no 15-20 car length difference between a 911TT and a Viper GTS.

<<<Not to mention, more than likely, the Viper has a good bit more HP/Torque under the curve, due to the cubic inches. >>>

This statement is not wholly accurate, and is a common misconception among people with little to no experience with turbochargers. Here are some words of wisdom. Turbo's add torque like you wouldn't believe; ESPECIALLY on larger motors. Turbos have wonderful area under the curve when tuned properly. People talk about turbo lag, and how superchargers are better, etc. Let me tell you something. Most blowers don't produce full boost until very close to redline. You can tune a turbo setup and get some exhaust velocity that will light that bad boy up to 30+ pounds of boost by 4K rpm. Turbos are amazing stuff. I know this is a little off topic, but I wanted to shed some light on this commonly misrepresented subject. Anyone who has experience with turbos will know exactly what I am talking about.

<<<Maybe NOSLASER can brush up on his 8'th grade algerbra, and realize it was VERY possible in a slightly modified Viper.>>>

Settle down killer. Was that totally neccessary?

<<<I will take an educated guess and say NOSLASER and VW are the young ones... Young Whippersnappers. >>>

Care to have a technical discusson?

We'll see just how much age and knowledge DON'T neccessarily go hand in hand. BTW, I'll be 24 soon, not 16.

And that Mustang you posted is a 10 second car? It wasn't by any chance cast in the fast and the furious was it? It looks as much like a 10 second car as that puke green Mitsubishi.

 

[NosLaser]

Oh, more more thing. Not to drop names or anything but ask Doug Levin about my demeanor, about my knowledge of cars, and how my cars run. He knows me personally and I'm sure he would have no problem vouching for me. Keep that in mind next time you decide to make personal attacks.

Regards,

 

[onerareviper]

Just one last sentiment:

NOSLASER & VW....,

You guys come to the Viper page, basically call me a liar and say I must have been dreaming this race, say it never happened, and then call me stupid names (spoiled/arrogant Viper owner, or whatever - can't remember). This is 'BEFORE' I wrote any post in response. Then, when I get a little defensive, you guys cry like little girls and say my words are 'uncalled for'. I think you really need to re-read the entire post, and examine your own words. Everything I said is my post was entirely true, and if you don't believe it, I could care less. I'm not trying to get your approval or confirmation. I'm merely re-enacting an event as I remember. Since I am a spoiled Viper owner (if you only knew my 10 years of saving/scrounging), I will give you what you want. --- "I will now take my incredible Viper out for a ride, which is the greatest car in the World, destroy any car on the street, and your stuck with a POS VW and LASER. Your opinion really doesn't matter, as only exotic cars owners opinions are valid. And please pass the Grey Poopoun"

BTW - That Mustang had a crate motor from SVO 302CI(340HP), with a 150 shot. The picture does not display the nitrous or the skinnys/slicks + cage. Added at a later date. I'll try to dig up some picks and time slips. Not pretty, but fast. And great buy at $6800 without nitrous/slicks/cage/suspension work. And the sound..... Wow... A cam from **** with flowmasters. P.S. - That color is actually Ford Blue. Fast and the Furious? I only remember rice in that movie. No Mustangs. Now your Laser, hmmmm....

 

[NosLaser]

onerareviper,

Alright, first things first. Reading comprehension will do you wonders. First off, (because I know you are going to retaliate with "I said VR6 AND NosLaser") you can't group us together because we didn't say the same things in any stretch of the means. I never flamed you, I never called you an arrogant Viper owner, I never talked up my car, and never attacked you. AT ALL. You, on the other hand, did decide to get defensive, and post personal attacks against me. My first line was I had assumed your car was stock and the Porsche was stock, and I apologized for my mistake. It seems like the young one could teach the old one a lesson in etiquette in this particular instance. I have a LOT of friends who drive high dollar exotics, and there is a reason I have such caliber friends (I'll give you a hint...because I'm not the low-life kid you are trying to make me out to be.)

As far as the picture of the Mustang, I was simply messing with you because that sure doesn't look like a 10 second car. The F&F reference was because that Mitsubishi Eclipse was clouted as a 10 second car and it too looked nothing of the sort. I didn't make fun of the color either, so you may want to retract that statement as well. And my Laser; rice? That's about the funniest thing I have ever heard. My car had not one sticker on it, NO wing, an entirely stock exterior (save the black mesh wheels) and a stock interior (save for the rear seats removed, new carpeting, and custom platform for the nitrous bottle, no more than the necessary gauges, etc.) It had very conservative exhaust, and looked like a bone stock 195HP Plymouth Laser Turbo...except for the fact that it made 423HP, 428TQ to the tires and ran 129mph at the track. Yep. Definitely rice. Again, ask Doug Levin about that car. He has seen it run on more than one occasion. You care to stop being a child now?

Regards,

 

[onerareviper]

Hmmm..... Your first post towards me.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
For the guy who said he beat one by 15-20 cars, I am really impressed that you didn't say 15-20 car 'links' because that's what your story sounds like (Calling me a liar). In order for it to be a kill, the other guy has to actually be racing you (Immature sarcasm). As Allanlambo said, a stock GTS will most likely beat a stock Porche TT, but can you fathom the horsepower you would have to be making to pull 15-20 cars on a vehicle making over 400HP??? Honestly, do you realize just how ridiculous that claim sounds? (Insulting my intelligence) Perhaps the excitement skewed your vision momentarily. No flames, just reality. ('Know it all' comment). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said, 15 cars lengths is nothing at 150+ MPH. Under a second. With the 100HP advantage I had, I feel I could repeat this task no-problem. Against a 'stock' 911 TT.

I'm done with you NOSLASER. This is a waste of my time, and probably yours as well. And no, I would prefer a room with Brook Burke.

What cracks me up, is you insist the picture of my V8 Mustang does not look like a 10 second car. Then you go on to state your 10 second Laser looks 100% stock, like the 195HP version. Think about your logic.....

 

[NosLaser]

&lt;&lt;&lt;What cracks me up, is you insist the picture of my V8 Mustang does not look like a 10 second car. Then you go on to state your 10 second Laser looks 100% stock, like the 195HP version. Think about your logic.....&gt;&gt;&gt;

Under the hood it looks like a 13 second Mustang. Obviously I couldn't see the nitrous from the pic, but even still. You say the motor was a 340HP 302 Crate motor with 150 shot of gas on it. Let's say you make 475HP at the crank. How exactly does that propel a 3400 pound Mustang into the 10's? Maybe if you pulled a 1.3 60 foot and went 10.90 at like 118 or some ridiculously low mph. It just doesn't add up; but at this point I don't expect much more.

Regards,

 

[onerareviper]

You may know DSM's, but you don't know Mustangs. 475-500 HP with proper suspension, slicks, soft rear shocks, steep gears = easy high 10's on prepped track. 5.0s are great drag cars. Not gonna hit 130MPH, but first to the line is all that matter in drag racing....

P.S. - Weight is easily removed from these cars.

 

[NosLaser]

&lt;&lt;&lt;You may know DSM's, but you don't know Mustangs. 475-500 HP with proper suspension, slicks, soft rear shocks, steep gears = easy high 10's on prepped track. 5.0s are great drag cars. Not gonna hit 130MPH, but first to the line is all that matter in drag racing....
P.S. - Weight is easily removed from these cars.&gt;&gt;&gt;

No, you just assume I don't know anything about Mustangs. Where is the weight removed on that car? So far, all I have seen is a 13 second Mustang with some funky looking chrome 5 stars on it. What did the car run at the track? What kind of 60 foot? What kind of 1/8th mile? A ZO6 runs lower 12's at 115-116 and weighs under 3200 pounds. How does your heaviest of the bunch Mustang GT with only 70-90 more HP go 10's?? I'm confused... You really think I am some dumb kid. Call Steeda and ask them my knowledge of Mustangs. Call Outlaw Racing. Call Mustang Specialties. VMVR6 called you an arrogant Viper owner. He's half right. You are just arrogant, and it has nothing to do with your Viper.

Regards,

 

[allanlambo]

i thought it was the taliban we were at war with!

 

[onerareviper]

I give up.... Why am I defending a car that I bought off a friend, because he needed money for medical school? I sold the thing 2 years ago, and bought my dream car. I'm a happy camper.

P.S. - Rumor has it, your 10 sec. car burn to the ground? Some little bird sent me a private email.... Is this true?

P.S.S. - If I was arrogant, I just would have done this:

 

[jamie furman]

Wayne I have been thinking about buying a twin turbo, to me there is more to it than drag racing. The whole package what do you think of it? You know like ride and handling real world stuff,the total package performance what do you think compared to the viper?

 

[onerareviper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
And i dunno but if i ran a 10sec run i'd be pretty sure i remeber the trap and 60ft.. only 2 little times. Don't see why u gotta dig up a timeslip.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, VW. Let me spend 2 days digging up all the info. on ever mod I did to this car, that a sold 2 years ago, to prove what it ran... And those were my street tires, as skinny's/slicks are not street legal (obvious)(to NOSLASER). It's quite obvious to me you guys are going to believe what you want anyway. If we've learned anything, it's that. So why should I waste anymore time with this nonsense? Found a barely readable timeslip - so if you insist:

60' 1.572
330' 4.521
1/8 6.993
MPH (Cant read - looks like 100.23)
1000' 9.123
1/4 10.974
MPH 126.11

Happy?

P.S. - I'm really not into drag racing anymore, so remembering numbers from 2 years ago left the brain a long time ago. The Viper is designed for other things - A sport that takes a little more skill, and a lot more car.

P.S.S. - After giving this whole post further thought, here is my conclusion (I actually pondered this for a minute): 90% of the post I have read, where someone doubts a number/performance, is usually an import guy. This is fact. Here's my theory. You guys might not be posers, but so many people into the import scene are full of baloney. I mean, some of the kill stories, etc... are borderline crazy. Just visit any import page. 20% of the import guys I've met are harcore, the other 80% are full of sh*t. And I am not lumping you guys into that 80%. But I think you guys are used to dealing with individuals that exaggerate, etc... So your always on the lookout for BS. From my experience on the VCA, most guys give factual information. We really don't need to exaggerate, as the Viper speaks for itself. Just keep that in mind before you start raising the BSFLAG on the VCA. Most of us have better things to do than argue timeslips, unless there from Mid-Ohio.

 

[NosLaser]

&lt;&lt;&lt;Could you two please get a room?&gt;&gt;&gt;

Only if you come with...

Sorry for getting off topic; I didn't think I would have to defend myself on such low levels.

Regards,

 

[NosLaser]

&lt;&lt;&lt;P.S. - Rumor has it, your 10 sec. car burn to the ground? Some little bird sent me a private email.... Is this true?&gt;&gt;&gt;

Rumor confirmed. And let's not jump the gun here...I never said my car ran 10's anywhere. I don't go off clouting about having a 10 second car, and although I appreciate it , you don't have to either.

&lt;&lt;&lt;P.S.S. - If I was arrogant, I just would have done this:&gt;&gt;&gt;

You do that as if I don't like Vipers. I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm here because I actually like the car, and because a personal friend of mine is a big name here, and I've seen/ridden in/raced his work. Do a search for all my posts and you will see I'm not some import guy stirring the ***. I'm not here to argue, but I will defend myself. To the original topic, it seemed like a bit of embellishment to me personally, but I wasn't there so I really don't have grounds to argue. For that I apologize.

&lt;&lt;&lt;Would the participants with less than 10 cylinders please make a quiet and orderly exit?&gt;&gt;&gt;

This is just ridiculous. Is there a rule here that says you must have a Viper to be on the board? If so, then you'll be booting a lot of people. If you really really want a person who is knowledgeable about cars, and has a whole other side of the performance spectrum to offer, and could likely teach you quite a few things about cars in general to leave just because I don't own a Viper, then fine. Let me know, research my past posts, decide for yourself why I am here, and get back to me.

Regards,

 

[NosLaser]

So, basically you have nothing to say? Guess what? This is the internet. You will come to find that there are people with all makes of cars on all makes of boards. Get over it. How do you know I am not here learning about Vipers because I plan to buy one in the near future? I'm going to go cut off my leg in an attempt to distract myself from the enormous headache I have from trying to understand your logic.

Regards,

 

[allanlambo]

what about people with more than 10 cylinders? do we have to leave also?

 

[sachin]

Hey guys, new to the board, I ran a 94 911 3.6 Turbo today in my 01 RT/10 and lost

His car was purple, had full exhaust 1bar spring, some port and polish work and thats all he said. MY rt/10 is bone stock, he took the hit in 2nd and we went for all of 2nd and then 3rd. As soon as I hit 3rd he just started to pull away like about 2-2.5 cars. My shift to 3rd wasnt that good as we just got the car 2 days ago and im use to Corvette's etc. This car was no joke, id estimate it was a 121-122mph car with simple mods, im guessing my rt/10 to be a 117mph car. On another note raced my brother in a 00 Jaguar XJR (keeps up to our 01 Camaro SS Auto, dead even) and the race was an absolute joke!! The XJR is a 105-106mph car and the RT/10 destroyed it! I love the power this car has. Thing that puzzles me is it doesnt feel much quicker than the 01 Z06 we had a while ago. Anywayz just thought i'd share my experience

 

[bad viper]

Jamie
I have to say THEY ARE 2 TOTALLY different cars.
The Porsche is ugly IMHO. Other than that I can't find
one single bad thing to say about the car!!!! So smooth,
so technical, it needs to have horsepower increased (as I have
done i.e.505 RWHP).The car is VERY forgiving i.e.
push it to the limit on the track or road and PSM kicks
in and makes necessary correction to power/braking to
keep you from loosing it (within obvious physical limits).
The Viper we all know it's strong points, so no need to elaborate
on those.

 

[VEETENN]

The factory option is for an extra 35hp bringing the total to 450hp on the 911 twin turbo.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bertrand:
I don't know if anyone has really thought of this as a possibility but the new 911 Turbo has a +50 factory option that adds 50hp to bump output to 465 hp. With that kind of output those cars will give a bone stock GTS a run from a roll in the 50-150 mph range. Without the +50 option there is no way a well driven GTS or late model Viper would loose out to a 911 Turbo in that range.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>