SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES

JohnnyBravo

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Frankly, none of you need to concern yourselves with the value of this car because you won't be winning it.

However, I will take some really nice pictures of me driving it all over town and share them with all of you after I win.

I am not really a Barrett-Jackson kind of guy. I'm more of a "Holy crap, that's the coolest car I've ever seen. I'm driving it everywhere!" kind of guy.

Sorry to disappoint you all. If it ends up in my hands, it will not be a zero mile car for long. :)
 

Bobpantax

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Stated ARV for the Michigan raffle license: $120K. Sorry Bonkers, this one will sell out in record time. :2tu:

Lets clear this up, are you saying that as far as the feds are concerned it's value is $120,000?

An application for a raffle is not a valuation that would be binding on the federal government. In fact, there is no such thing since the IRS does not issue private rulings on the valuation of a raffle prize. On the other hand an appraisal done by a qualified appraiser could be used to convince the IRS that the raffle value stated is the correct valuation. As I said in a post above, if someone won the car and immediately flipped it for $250,000.00, the IRS would have a good argument that it was worth $250,000.00 at the time of the win. What I would like to see is the VCA purchase the car before the lottery from whoever currently owns it based on arm's length negotiations. The price of the purchase would also be credible evidence of value. If the car is being contributed to the VCA for free, an appraisal is definitely required to provide any valuation comfort. Good luck all.
 

MoparMan

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Stated ARV for the Michigan raffle license: $120K. Sorry Bonkers, this one will sell out in record time. :2tu:

Lets clear this up, are you saying that as far as the feds are concerned it's value is $120,000?

An application for a raffle is not a valuation that would be binding on the federal government. In fact, there is no such thing since the IRS does not issue private rulings on the valuation of a raffle prize. On the other hand an appraisal done by a qualified appraiser could be used to convince the IRS that the raffle value stated is the correct valuation. As I said in a post above, if someone won the car and immediately flipped it for $250,000.00, the IRS would have a good argument that it was worth $250,000.00 at the time of the win. What I would like to see is the VCA purchase the car before the lottery from whoever currently owns it based on arm's length negotiations. The price of the purchase would also be credible evidence of value. If the car is being contributed to the VCA for free, an appraisal is definitely required to provide any valuation comfort. Good luck all.

Bob, I agree with you 100%. It'd be nice to know potentially how deep into the IRS one could get with the winning ticket in hand.
 

Y2K5SRT

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I'm sorry guys, I was pretty sure that I wrote the following:

Stated ARV for the Michigan raffle license: $120K.

Rest assured that it is documented and contracted accordingly. If you guys want to play "guess the tax implications" have at it. But the stated value (backed up by a contract) will be $120K. Period. Rest assured that we are not getting it for free, as it is not owned by DCX or anybody else that would part with it for under six figures.

Now if you are trying to corner the raffle ticket market through scare tactics, then I commend your effort. ;)

Official details to follow!
 

Y2K5SRT

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Quick, what has 615HP, weighs 3325 pounds, cost some $750,000 to build, does 0-60 in about 3.5 seconds, and could be in YOUR garage for as little as $100? Why the 2006 ASC Diamondback Viper Coupe of course!

asc.jpg


This car made its spectacular debut at the 2006 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. The press release tells the tale:

The American company ASC (American Specialty Cars) showed its creative expertise at the 2006 North American International Auto Show by unveiling a supercar made even more super by the addition of a mostly carbon-fiber body. A 'snake' with an all-new skin, the ASC Viper Diamondback is super-light and super-fast. It's fitting that ASC, which helped the Chrysler Group bring the new Dodge Viper SRT10 coupe to life, would, with the aid of McLaren Performance Technologies, show how the Viper coupe might be taken to an all-new level of 'extreme.'

The 615 bhp Viper Diamondback features a carbon fiber roof, deck lid, rockers, fascia inserts, body trim and a massive OmniCarbon hood that shows off ten unique trumpeted air intakes, with individual port throttles, peeking through - a McLaren Performance Technologies feature reminiscent of McLaren Can-Am engines of the past.

The hood also shows off compression-molded carbon fiber. It's displayed beautifully, with a broad, clearcoated racing stripe down the Arctic White-painted expanse, subtly outlined by 'Viper Blue' and 'McLaren Orange' pinstripes. In all, ASC removed about 85 lbs. of weight from the vehicle - including cutting the weight of the hood by nearly half versus the production model. Taken together with the powertrain modifications by McLaren Performance Technologies, the power-to-weight ratio was increased, resulting in an estimated increase in 0-60 mph time of 3.5 seconds.


Here is a picture of that engine from just a few weeks ago:

asc2.jpg


Some more details about the car:

<ul type="square">[*]Custom in-hood trumpeted air intakes with individual throttle bodies
[*]"Arctic Ice Pearl" paint job (hint - go look at Harley-Davidson Arctic White)
[*]Suspension lowered 1.25"
[*]Custom stainless-steel quad outlet side exhaust
[*]Custom 3-piece forged and painted 19" aluminum wheels with custom center caps
[*]Exterior racing-type kill switch
[*]Four point racing harness
[*]Carbon fiber interior accents
[*]Custom badging on both rockers and the engine valve covers
[*]Yes, even the custom front chin spoiler is carbon fiber
[/list] Whew! It's already pretty obvious that this is one of the greatest Vipers ever built. What would be the one thing that could make it even better? HAVING IT IN YOUR GARAGE!! And now you can:

Beginning in early March the VCA is proud to make this exclusive car available for a 1-of-a-kind raffle for VCA members only. That's right, you could win this very bad boy for the price of a single raffle ticket. As with our more recent Viper raffles, tickets will be priced at $125 each, or three for $300. Knowing how incredibly popular these tickets will be, we have still kept the available number very low - just 2500 tickets. We are sure this raffle will sell out in a hurry. And to assure that we made the deal even sweeter:

<ul type="square">[*]The custom information display plaque from the NAIAS will be included (the one that shows the car's stats)
[*]Autographed copies of the original design drawings (large) will also be included
[/list]
signed.jpg


What? Not enough? No problem, Icing meet Cake:

A few folks have worried that the car couldn't be driven on the streets much with those big trumpets on the top of the engine. And most definitely not in the rain. Worry no more. Doug Levin Motorsports has agreed to provide a polished factory intake and all the other hardware needed to bring the intake to stock condition (throttle body, filters, etc.) if the winner so chooses. And they will even throw in the labor to do it and tune it - you just have to get it to their shop if you want them to do the work.

Now how about THAT! I think it is very safe to say that this is THE greatest raffle car ever made available from any car club on the planet. Many think that it could cross the Barrett-Jackson stage in Scottsdale for as much as half a million dollars, or even more if you sat on it for a few years. And while your national officers briefly debated doing exactly that, we wanted to make this available to ALL of our VCA members. And that's YOU!

A few quick notes and then some more pictures to give you an idea of how special this car really is:

<ul type="square">[*]Tickets will go on sale in early March - NO exact date until the raffle license is approved by the state of Michigan
[*]There is NO waiting list or reserve list for tickets - don't e-mail or call Viper HQ or anybody else just yet. Tickets are NOT available as of this writing.
[*]Tickets will only be available to PAID 2007 members of the VCA - if you have hesitated to renew you had better do it FAST
[*]The raffle will run for approximately two months with the drawing around the third week of May
[*]Tickets will be available on a first-come, first served basis. Expect this one to sell out well before the purchase deadline (estimated second week of May)
[*]The vehicle has approximately 50 miles on the odometer (in and out of numerous shows) and is titled to ASC, Incorporated
[*]The vehicle is in good running order, however the VCA will provide no warranty. Chances are good the factory warranty doesn't apply either.
[*]This vehicle may not pass emissions testing in all 50 US states.
[*]Retail value is being established as $120,000 and documented accordingly for tax purposes. If you sell it at Barrett-Jackson for a million bucks seven months later then that is your "problem" ;)
[*]Winner is responsible for all transportation costs[/list] And there you have it. Now go enjoy some pictures, both from the press kit and from a personal visit we had with the car a few weeks ago:

ASC02web.jpg


ASC03web.jpg


asc7.jpg


asc4.jpg


asc6.jpg


ascint.jpg


ascdash.jpg


ascdeck.jpg


asc1.jpg


If you want any more, just go to Google and you will find thousands of references this car. It has appeared in most major auto magazines, as well as newspaper stories and TV coverage from around the world. And it could be in your garage for as little as $100. And only if you are a paid VCA member.

Now THAT'S what I would call a member benefit! :2tu:
 

viper77

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Thank You, now I can go to bed, won't sleep, but at least I can go there.
GREAT job. There goes the budget. For $750,000 I could buy all the tickets. Oops, don't want to put any ideas in someones head.
Good luck to all. (I will give you all a ride after I pick it up.)
Best Raffle car yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:laugh: :usa:
 

Vipermann

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Well that *****! They just informed a few of us on here that you were picked as the winner of this car, but I will let them know that youre not interested. LMAO! J/K! :bonker:

Well, if it's a 'winning ticket' ... I guess I will have to buy one ... :D
 

RMBSRT

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Im in...my wife is going to kill me when she sees the bill for the tickets!!!

Great job VCA!!!
 

Bobpantax

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Very interesting. Two issues. The Barret-Jackson comment suggests that the true fair market value far exceeds $120,000.00 and an IRS Agent would probably review the posts here if an examination occurred. Did, or is, the current owner receiving any other benefit of any kind from anyone in exchange for allowing the VCA to obtain the vehicle for $120,000.00? If not great but if that is the case, why the big discount when they have an alleged $750,000.00 invested? I hate to rain on an exciting parade but when something seems illogical, a few questions are in order.

Secondly, with respect to this part of the post: "Worry no more. Doug Levin Motorsports has agreed to provide a polished factory intake and all the other hardware needed to bring the intake to stock condition (throttle body, filters, etc.) if the winner so chooses. And they will even throw in the labor to do it and tune it - you just have to get it to their shop if you want them to do the work."

What fool would alter the car after winning it? Any alteration would ruin its authenticity and significantly diminish its value. So, at least to me, this part of the prize is of no value whatsover.

Please clarify the value issue. If the car would get what was stated it would currently get at auction, is not that its true value. If not, why not?

Thank you in advance for your answer.
 

FinalEd357

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Thank you VCA for this exciting opportunity. If I win the car, it will stay as it is (without intake mods). What an incredible collector piece of American Muscle History!

I wonder if there will be a maximum # of tix a single member may purchase? (That could be scary)
 

Yellow32

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Chris

Is that an airjack system I see to the left of the rear license plate?

Do you know if that comes with the car?

thx

-J
 

PatentLaw

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Just because someone invested 750,000 in development does not mean that the value of the item is, indeed, 750,000. People fix up cars all the time and a majority of the time they lose money on the deal. I have not heard of IRS agents going after every transaction at Barrett Jackson when someone won an auction for a good value. Invested money does not equal true market price. I would say, in fact, that the value of 120k would be slightly high, in fact. If you can buy a new 600hp Viper for around 90k, and the difference in HP is a small amount (comparing the 08 and the above raffle car), the difference in value is the amount of the weight savings from the carbon fiber. I doubt that any pencil pusher in Washington for the IRS has the capability to state that those carbon fiber pieces are worth 600k.

I would not lose sleep over it. Looks like a nice "fair weather" car to own.
 

Bobpantax

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Just because someone invested 750,000 in development does not mean that the value of the item is, indeed, 750,000. People fix up cars all the time and a majority of the time they lose money on the deal. I have not heard of IRS agents going after every transaction at Barrett Jackson when someone won an auction for a good value. Invested money does not equal true market price. I would say, in fact, that the value of 120k would be slightly high, in fact. If you can buy a new 600hp Viper for around 90k, and the difference in HP is a small amount (comparing the 08 and the above raffle car), the difference in value is the amount of the weight savings from the carbon fiber. I doubt that any pencil pusher in Washington for the IRS has the capability to state that those carbon fiber pieces are worth 600k.

I would not lose sleep over it. Looks like a nice "fair weather" car to own.

Read my post again more carefully. I did not say what you think you read. The background raffle data states that the VCA considered selling the car at BJ and also suggests an amount that would be received for the vehicle. That amount far exceeds 120K. The comment on development cost goes to how the sales price was set to the VCA. If its worth the kind of money stated that could be obtained at BJ, why would it be sold to the VCA for 120K unless something in addition, tangible or intangible, was received? If the 750K development figure is puffing, fine. However, if ASC was subsidized by DC and part of ASC's contract with DC involved selling the car to the VCA for a raffle at 120K after its useful life as a show car was over - after the announcement of the 2008 Viper, then there is a valuation issue. I have litigated many tax cases involving valuation issues. I can assure you that the comment in the post creates a problem. However, it will be interesting to see or at least hear about what an accountant puts on the 1099 issued to the winner. In the alternative, the BJ value comment could be considered mere puffing to **** the raffle but there is alot of money around and this car clearly has collector value. It is very seldom that a show car like this becomes available for purchase. The simple solution is to obtain a valuation from BJ or any other credible appraiser with experience valuing one off collector vehicles. My guess is that one or more employees of the IRS ( there are over 100,000 of them) are Viper heads and regularly read the VCA forums. Good luck all.
 

Y2K5SRT

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Very interesting. Two issues. The Barret-Jackson comment suggests that the true fair market value far exceeds $120,000.00 and an IRS Agent would probably review the posts here if an examination occurred. Did, or is, the current owner receiving any other benefit of any kind from anyone in exchange for allowing the VCA to obtain the vehicle for $120,000.00? If not great but if that is the case, why the big discount when they have an alleged $750,000.00 invested? I hate to rain on an exciting parade but when something seems illogical, a few questions are in order.
Sigh... The VCA is paying exactly $120,000 for the car. No more, no less. No special consideration - you could have bought it for that price if you got there a week earlier. And the retail value is what someone is willing to pay for it. And we were willing to pay $120,000. Ask any IRS agent. If I say that, "Gee, it could bring eleventy BILLION dollars at Barrett-Jackson", that doesn't mean the IRS will swarm in and ask for their percentage of that. It simply means that some goofball on the Internet thinks the car is worth a lot of money. Not that it SOLD for that amount or that anyone ever PAID that amount. It is valued at $120,000. Period. No DCX underwriting, no special favors, nothing. I will happily settle for "puffing" - or haven't you figured out I am in sales &amp; marketing yet? ;)

Secondly, with respect to this part of the post: "Worry no more. Doug Levin Motorsports has agreed to provide a polished factory intake and all the other hardware needed to bring the intake to stock condition (throttle body, filters, etc.) if the winner so chooses. And they will even throw in the labor to do it and tune it - you just have to get it to their shop if you want them to do the work."

What fool would alter the car after winning it? Any alteration would ruin its authenticity and significantly diminish its value. So, at least to me, this part of the prize is of no value whatsover.
So noted. There have already been several "fools" that said they would track the car, others would drive it around, while still others would only keep it for show. You would be SHOCKED at the number of people (Viper owners!) that discouraged us from buying this car as a raffle car because of that intake set up. So, in order to please all those "fools" we asked Doug Levin for his help, which he gladly offered to donate. You might also note that we specifically stated if the winner so chooses. Like you, my bet is that nobody would want to do that conversion. Others are betting that I am dead wrong.

Please clarify the value issue. If the car would get what was stated it would currently get at auction, is not that its true value. If not, why not?
The value is the purchase price - PERIOD. No amount of conjecture means anything to the IRS. It's what someone is willing to pay. I believe that with ALL our raffles there is this statement: "All applicable taxes, license and fees are the responsibility of the winner based on the retail value of the prize. Federal law requires the deposit of 25% of such value to be applied toward the winner’s tax liability before the prize can be released." We have stated the retail value (now several times) and it is written in the raffle application specifically. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY knows what it would bring at auction. Therefor nobody, and I mean NOBODY can assess a tax on that unknown number. It would be assessed on the ONLY known number, and that number is $120,000. Period. End of story. Fin.

Even though I personally think it could bring as much as ten trillion dollars at auction. :2tu:

Thank you in advance for your answer.
You betcha.
 

Vipermann

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Secondly, with respect to this part of the post: "Worry no more. Doug Levin Motorsports has agreed to provide a polished factory intake and all the other hardware needed to bring the intake to stock condition (throttle body, filters, etc.) if the winner so chooses. And they will even throw in the labor to do it and tune it - you just have to get it to their shop if you want them to do the work."

What fool would alter the car after winning it? Any alteration would ruin its authenticity and significantly diminish its value. So, at least to me, this part of the prize is of no value whatsover.

I disagree. The real question is whether someone would drive it or not? drive it, put miles on it, affects value. But if your willing to do that, then go ahead and swap the intake -- you can always swap it back. Otherwise, put it in a showroom and never drive it -- end of story.
 

NoRice

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As an appraiser, I have to agree with Chris on this issue regarding the value of the car. The key to it is what the most probable price the car would bring on the open market. He already stated that the car was available to anyone had they contacted ASC regarding it. They contacted ASC and offered $120k and the offer was accepted. Just because ASC put $750k into developing the car does not mean it is worth anywhere close to that amount, and like others have stated it is most likely valued close to the $120k I would guess. The car was built to showcase some things that would be available on future Vipers and now they are or will be shortly. So to me the value from 2006 to now has diminished greatly as exclusivity had diminished. Honestly if the car was truly worth $750k, then the smart person would just send a check to the VCA for $250k and buy the car outright and skip the raffle altogether, correct? Or even if it was worth around $250k, I would still do that. There may be potential revenue in continuing to show the car at shows. Then again I am not a lawyer or an IRS agent, so my opinion really doesn't matter in this. I am in for 3 tickets! :laugh:
 

snake dreams

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Am I the only person who doesn't like this car? Seems to me like a lot of time and money went into this soley for the purpose of making it look ugly.
 

Bobpantax

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If you look at all my posts, I am not saying the vehicle is worth 750K. In my first post it states that the value could be higher or lower than the development cost. FMV is the value used by the IRS. It is usually based on comparables but in this case, there really are no comparables. The problem with PatentLaw's and your view is that you are trying to value the car by merely adding the cost of the components and the labor to install them less a discount for it being a 2006 model underneath. It seems to me that that methodology is flawed and that a Tax Court Judge would quickly see that it is flawed. The flaw is that this car is a one off collector's car that was produced by legendary names in the gearhead world and that factor has to be considered. I am not saying its Shelby's Cobra, but I am saying this is an issue. I think that there are quite a few VCA members who would have paid more than 120K to buy the car for their collection.

With the above said, the most recent post by the moderator helps clear the record up a bit. If in fact the vehicle was publicly offered to anyone for sale and the VCA, on an arm's length basis, offered 120 K and it was accepted, there would be a good argument of 120K being the FMV. I am a bit skeptical of the claim that the car was available to anyone to buy. I think it would have sold quickly for more than 120K if that was the case and it was known to the public.

I note that the moderator's post spotlights the tax disclaimer on the raffle. In other words, if there is a problem, it is the winner's problem. One last time, why not just get the independent appraisal for some additional comfort for the raffle ticket purchasers? It is not a lot of money to obtain such an appraisal.

By the way, the total take if all raffle tickets are sold out is $312,500.00. It should be a good payday for the VCA net of expenses. My guess is that if the car was handled by BJ, the net, after the cost of the car, expenses of sale and the commission to BJ, would probably be less than the net obtained from the raffle. Good luck all.
 

KenricGTS

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Guys who gives a crap about what it might be worth. It is stated the value is 120 period, that is what any of us will pay taxes on! Move on already! We are all lucky that the VCA is getting such a cool Viper to raffle.
 

Y2K5SRT

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If in fact the vehicle was publicly offered to anyone for sale and the VCA, on an arm's length basis, offered 120 K and it was accepted, there would be a good argument of 120K being the FMV. I am a bit skeptical of the claim that the car was available to anyone to buy. I think it would have sold quickly for more than 120K if that was the case and it was known to the public.
Okay Bob, I am done. Sorry, I am doing my very best to be polite but you continue to call me a liar. I stand by what I said and every VCA officer will back me, as well as the other folks that went to view the car. They even gave us a "shopping list" of all the cars and which ones had already sold when we were there. And yes, all but the GNX were deeply discounted. FACT, FACT, FACT. Sorry, but I can't account for their marketing skills or why they didn't sell it beforehand. I just know that they didn't.

Oh, and besides being the moderator, I am also the National Treasurer for the VCA. Rest assured that I know EXACTLY what was paid for that vehicle and EXACTLY how it all went down - I was one of the folks that viewed the car before making the purchase, not to mention the guy that writes the checks. I may be a lot of things, but a liar isn't one of them.

Am I the only person who doesn't like this car? Seems to me like a lot of time and money went into this soley for the purpose of making it look ugly.
Funny you should mention that, and kinda surprising you are the first: When I originally saw pictures of this car in magazines and on these forums, I thought, "Man, is it just me or is that car butt-ugly?" And I honestly can't say that my opinion changed much until I saw it in person. And then, "WOW!!!"

I think part of the problem is that the pictures really emphasize the contrast of the two main body colors. Yet in person they mesh extremely well. This is especially true when you see the hood and rear deck as part of the whole, with the carbon fiber peeking out of the pearl paint. And yes, it is pearl - not pure white. Indeed, some of the pearl "reflection" acts similar to the carbon fiber reflection, as each catch the light in similar ways. That is pretty tough to capture in pictures, but easy to see in person. My opinion changed 110% when I saw it up close.

The car is simply incredible and will blow away anybody that sees it in person. Want to win every single World of Wheels show and any other car show you enter? Buy a raffle ticket and cross your fingers. I guarantee that by the end of the summer you would have so many "Best of Show" trophies you would need to add another wing to your house. It truly is a spectacular car.

asctop.jpg
 

Janni

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Fear not the taxes!

Problem solved by not buying tickets!

People never cease to amaze me.




Thanks for the opportunity to win this one off car - that has so much collectability POTENTIAL. Unreal.
 

Bobpantax

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It was never my intention to suggest that you were less than truthful. With the additional information that you have now provided, I think that there is a greater comfort level. Data transparency is usually a good thing. Sorry for any offense taken. None was intended.

Bob
 

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