TO MODERATOR

[madman]

Hey Janni, calm down.

First of all - I am not suggesting lay off Tony (where the hell did you get this?). OMG. The software powering vca2.viperclub.org allows to have one Administrator (Tony I assume) and several supermoderators. Correct me if I am wrong Tony. While Administrator has unlimited privileges supermoderators can move threads and posts around. I was suggesting add a supermoderator who would take care of SRT forum, divert threads and posts to a General Forum thus making it alive so that it would become THE forum for chatting. Keep SRT forum focused.

If the things would go well you will find later moderator od the general forum bumping too technical or too specific threads to specific forums thus making them a good knowledgebase and place for specialized discussions.

Second of all - SRT-10 is in the same position as RT/GTS - it is a product line which has start and end. Take it as a fact that SRT is going to be what it is until its successor. As a matter of fact I am not the only one who thinks that SRT is in all features superior to all predecessors - look, handling, driving - name it. It is the best looking and fastest true roadster on the market WITHOUT the price limit.

Unlike you Z06 does not bother us because it is in a different league already (craig, jump in and say better and it is never going the threaten status of the Viper SRT-10 (nor RT/GTS) as an icon car.

Now you don't think that when you scream and vomit at existing SRT owners DC would improve the car, do you? If you 'demand' anything from DC you better buy DC shares and try more traditional routes because nobody will listen to you screaming. And if you scream at us, SRT owners, do you think that you are doing any good?

Edit:
Hiro, in 5 weeks of SRT ownership interrupted by west coast storms I managed to put 1600 miles on the snake, put RB1, Ipod and Focal speakers in (all documented on this board), add on and take off Corsa Track exhaust (didn't like it, loss of power) and lately add 3.55 to my rear end. Does this qualify me?

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Hey Janni, calm down.

First of all - I am not suggesting lay off Tony (where the hell did you get this?). OMG. The software powering vca2.viperclub.org allows to have one Administrator (Tony I assume) and several supermoderators. Correct me if I am wrong Tony. While Administrator has unlimited privileges supermoderators can move threads and posts around. I was suggesting add a supermoderator who would take care of SRT forum, divert threads and posts to a General Forum thus making it alive so that it would become THE forum for chatting. Keep SRT forum focused.

If the things would go well you will find later moderator od the general forum bumping too technical or too specific threads to specific forums thus making them a good knowledgebase and place for specialized discussions.

Second of all - SRT-10 is in the same position as RT/GTS - it is a product line which has start and end. Take it as a fact that SRT is going to be what it is until its successor. As a matter of fact I am not the only one who thinks that SRT is in all features superior to all predecessors - look, handling, driving - name it. It is the best looking and fastest true roadster on the market WITHOUT the price limit.

Unlike you Z06 does not bother us because it is in a different league already (craig, jump in and say better and it is never going the threaten status of the Viper SRT-10 (nor RT/GTS) as an icon car.

Now you don't think that when you scream and vomit at existing SRT owners DC would improve the car, do you? If you 'demand' anything from DC you better buy DC shares and try more traditional routes because nobody will listen to you screaming. And if you scream at us, SRT owners, do you think that you are doing any good?

Edit:
Hiro, in 5 weeks of SRT ownership interrupted by west coast storms I managed to put 1600 miles on the snake, put RB1, Ipod and Focal speakers in (all documented on this board), add on and take off Corsa Track exhaust (didn't like it, loss of power) and lately add 3.55 to my rear end. Does this qualify me?

Dear newb:

This has all been discussed awhile ago. Tony is pretty well versed in how to run a messageboard.


BTW have you heard of this new thing called the internet?

Please just stop.

 

[STUGOTS]

Madman

Learn to respect your host. This site costs nothing to join and is a valuable asset for information on our cars. Also you have been here what like 6 weeks and you are demanding change. Outragous behavior- just downright rude. This isn't a Honda S2000 Fast and Furious Forum with post after post about how awesome the 4 bangers are. Have you even gotten out of the break in period of your SRT 10 yet?

The Viper was top dog the "King of the Hill" for American Sports cars. Now we are about to be tied for second. People just want that title back. Everyone has been gunning for the Viper - you probably are not used to this because the S2000 competitors are basically chick cars - The Porsche Boxster, Audi TT, BMW Z4 and the Mercedes SLK. In that circle HP and performance are not the key factors.

The Corvette and Viper are our Nations two premiere sports cars the same way Lambhorgini and Ferrari are Italy's. These cars are legendary. There are also a ton of Viper SRT posts on the Corvetteforum. This is a good thing. Competetion from the Viper has literally saved the Corvette and I beleive the same is about to be true with the Viper because DC will step up to beat the Z06.

VERY WELL PUT.

"because DC will step up to beat the Z06" thats my favortite part its also true.

 

[Cris]

Some quotes from Craig on this topic alone:

This place isn't killing SRT sales, Dodge killed the SRT before it even hit the streets *******. <font color="red"> Pleasant answer. So I guess it is not racing, marketing or any of the other reasons you have spelled out before. Now it was premeditated. </font>


I can't help but feel that the new coupe is so half-assed when you look at what they did to make one. <font color="red"> Great constructive criticism there Craig! </font>

Go put your head back in the sand f'n newb. <font color="red"> Trying to make friends with your influential language? </font>

That's because the GTS wasn't an abortion. There is no denying that the car is absolutely beautiful and not once have I ever heard of anyone say that the look "grew on them" the car is insta hardon. <font color="red"> Craig talking about the GTS as if 100% of all people on earth agree with him. Hmm, Wonder why I never purchased one??? But I do not feel the need to criticize those that did. </font>

The ******** Viper owners and enthusuats are a tad bit miffed to see the direction the car has gone. <font color="red"> Thank you for either speaking for me or excluding me from the ranks of owners or enthusiasts. Gee, I had no idea that all SRT owners were new to Vipers and were never enthusiasts? What a strange belief. </font>

Are you not man enough to be content with your decision and not give a flying f*ck what other people think?? <font color="red"> Yes, but if someone continues to spit in your face eventually you get angry and spit back. </font>


I firmly believe that to build any sort of serious reputation you need to race the car. It's as simple as that. <font color="red"> Let's see, the Viper was introduced in 1992. It was not raced in any serious way until 1996 with the introduction of the GTS. As Craig would have us believe it had no reputation before that. And really no chance for success as we all know that hardtops are the car for the purist. But of course the Viper was patterned off the Shelby Cobra, and to my recollection it was a roadster. Hmm roadster first, hardtop second. Seems like that sequence occurred before. </font>

 

[STUGOTS]

Hey Janni, calm down.

First of all - I am not suggesting lay off Tony (where the hell did you get this?). OMG. The software powering vca2.viperclub.org allows to have one Administrator (Tony I assume) and several supermoderators. Correct me if I am wrong Tony. While Administrator has unlimited privileges supermoderators can move threads and posts around. I was suggesting add a supermoderator who would take care of SRT forum, divert threads and posts to a General Forum thus making it alive so that it would become THE forum for chatting. Keep SRT forum focused.

If the things would go well you will find later moderator od the general forum bumping too technical or too specific threads to specific forums thus making them a good knowledgebase and place for specialized discussions.

Second of all - SRT-10 is in the same position as RT/GTS - it is a product line which has start and end. Take it as a fact that SRT is going to be what it is until its successor. As a matter of fact I am not the only one who thinks that SRT is in all features superior to all predecessors - look, handling, driving - name it. It is the best looking and fastest true roadster on the market WITHOUT the price limit.

Unlike you Z06 does not bother us because it is in a different league already (craig, jump in and say better and it is never going the threaten status of the Viper SRT-10 (nor RT/GTS) as an icon car.

Now you don't think that when you scream and vomit at existing SRT owners DC would improve the car, do you? If you 'demand' anything from DC you better buy DC shares and try more traditional routes because nobody will listen to you screaming. And if you scream at us, SRT owners, do you think that you are doing any good?

Edit:
Hiro, in 5 weeks of SRT ownership interrupted by west coast storms I managed to put 1600 miles on the snake, put RB1, Ipod and Focal speakers in (all documented on this board), add on and take off Corsa Track exhaust (didn't like it, loss of power) and lately add 3.55 to my rear end. Does this qualify me?

I dont think she ment lay off as in fire I think she ment lay off as in stop bustin his b@lls - Janni if im wrong please correct me.

 

[kverges]

This is amazing stuff. BTW, I owned a SRT and due to its as-delivered inability to be used on track it is gone. So as a former owner, can I bash? On top of that, my example left me stranded twice, the first time 48 hours after delivery. It also began to sound like a bag of bolts within 5,000 miles and was never as tightly screwed together as my beloved 2001 GTS.

To put it bluntly, IMO the SRT is a complete poseur car unless you cave in and modify it due to the inadequate factory engineering that rendered it useless for anything but posing in the first place. Just ask someone in the know what happened when the stock oiling for the SRT was used in the Comp Coupes. Not that I dislike poseur cars, but they have to have some track competence, to go with the show. And it offends me to have to add aftermarket parts to keep my car from grenading when pulling the 1g turns it is capable of.

Meanwhile Dave Hill, Chief Engineer of the Corvette put a dry sump on his car and advocates that owners take the car on track.

Don't get me wrong, the SRT could have been great, but it isn't and "very good" is not enough to follow the original Viper or to do battle with today's Z06.

So enjoy the SRT if you want to march to your own drummer, but don't expect the rest of the band to play you any fanfare.

 

[STUGOTS]

This is amazing stuff. BTW, I owned a SRT and due to its as-delivered inability to be used on track it is gone. So as a former owner, can I bash? On top of that, my example left me stranded twice, the first time 48 hours after delivery. It also began to sound like a bag of bolts within 5,000 miles and was never as tightly screwed together as my beloved 2001 GTS.

To put it bluntly, IMO the SRT is a complete poseur car unless you cave in and modify it due to the inadequate factory engineering that rendered it useless for anything but posing in the first place. Just ask someone in the know what happened when the stock oiling for the SRT was used in the Comp Coupes. Not that I dislike poseur cars, but they have to have some track competence, to go with the show. And it offends me to have to add aftermarket parts to keep my car from grenading when pulling the 1g turns it is capable of.

Meanwhile Dave Hill, Chief Engineer of the Corvette put a dry sump on his car and advocates that owners take the car on track.

Don't get me wrong, the SRT could have been great, but it isn't and "very good" is not enough to follow the original Viper or to do battle with today's Z06.

So enjoy the SRT if you want to march to your own drummer, but don't expect the rest of the band to play you any fanfare.

I have never heard that about the SRT, im glad someone with some first hand knowledge posted this and THATS exactly why we need the site like it is now I (a possible future buyer) know what to be concerned about.

 

[00prowler]

SRT vs. GTS kinda reminds me of the old King Kong vs. Godzilla movies I watched when I was a kid...I wont comment on which one wins...This post is getting kinda ugly as it is...There are a lot of people that like the RT/10 the best too...00PROWLER...

 

[RavenFan_94]

I like that Janni, Tony and other more senior members of the community addressed this thread with professionalism and tact.

Succinctly, there are always going to be jerks on the internet. If we can't get an ignore feature for Vipah and 99% of Craigs posts, we will just learn to skip over them.

The moderator and founder has devoted an extraordinary amount of time making this the best forum to discuss our cars. That is commendable.

It isn't what it is. It is what it has become. We either like it or leave it.

 

[29OUTLAW]

Good info here but also beware of the “Creampuff” 2000 &amp; 2001 GTS. With the milder cam, different lifters, and cast pistons, these creampuffs seldom pull over 400hp at the wheels.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Solomons Island is not far from Glen Burnie, make sure you make it to dyno days at Jason Heffners in May. After attending you will realize you are wrong regarding the creampuff issue. For example, with 1200 miles on the clock I got 419rwhp and 468 torque on a 00. In 4 years of attending this event with multiple cars tested every year the lowest number I saw on a creampuff was 406rwhp. Where are you getting your numbers from? And what is it with the "beware" thing? Who has to beware of what?

 

[1TONY1]

Which means that this forum will become useless for whom it was originally created - folks who purchased and who intend to purchase SRT-10 roadster as it is in production today.

Where do you buy this SRT-10 roadster ?? Maybe I'll trade my SRT-10 convertible in on one. duh.

 

[29OUTLAW]

Lee,

To answer you question:

On 22 August 2004, VCA Member “BWoodbury” wrote “When we did our local dyno day, I don’t remember a single 2000/2001 that pulled anything in the 400’s.”

Also – thanks for the invite to the Dyno Days but I’ll have to pass. Just not into spending an entire spring day watching cars spin around on a big wheel. Seems kind of silly to me.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Also – thanks for the invite to the Dyno Days but I’ll have to pass. Just not into spending an entire spring day watching cars spin around on a big wheel. Seems kind of silly to me.

You should stop by and check it out because:

1. You will see "creampuffs" blowing past 400 rwhp with no sweat (my 2000 was 414 rwhp bone stock and 436 rwhp w/K&amp;N and rear muffler delete).

2. Your 2005 should surprise a few people, including yourself. Mine dyno'ed at 464 rwhp and 504 rwtq - absolutely bone stock.

Don't knock a Viper Dyno Day (or even a portion of one) without trying it first. Have fun!

 

[29OUTLAW]

Also – thanks for the invite to the Dyno Days but I’ll have to pass. Just not into spending an entire spring day watching cars spin around on a big wheel. Seems kind of silly to me.

You should stop by and check it out because:

1. You will see "creampuffs" blowing past 400 rwhp with no sweat (my 2000 was 414 rwhp bone stock and 436 rwhp w/K&amp;N and rear muffler delete).

2. Your 2005 should surprise a few people, including yourself. Mine dyno'ed at 464 rwhp and 504 rwtq - absolutely bone stock.

Don't knock a Viper Dyno Day (or even a portion of one) without trying it first. Have fun!

I see your point but on a nice day in May, it just seems I'd rather be driving down a road with the top down vs. spinning around on a big wheel like a gerbil.

 

[29OUTLAW]

BTW – 464/504 is awesome. If ever asked how much my car makes, I’ll just use your numbers and save myself the trouble.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I see your point but on a nice day in May, it just seems I'd rather be driving down a road with the top down vs. spinning around on a big wheel like a gerbil.

Ah, but the drive THERE and BACK with friends is just as fun!! Throw a BBQ in there and you have a nice mix of driving, posing, eating...and just plain fun. We'll be making an effort way down here to not only attend more events North...but to have some of our own!

 

[Janni]

Hey Janni, calm down.

First of all - I am not suggesting lay off Tony (where the hell did you get this?). OMG. The software powering vca2.viperclub.org allows to have one Administrator (Tony I assume) and several supermoderators. Correct me if I am wrong Tony. While Administrator has unlimited privileges supermoderators can move threads and posts around. I was suggesting add a supermoderator who would take care of SRT forum, divert threads and posts to a General Forum thus making it alive so that it would become THE forum for chatting. Keep SRT forum focused.

I dont think she ment lay off as in fire I think she ment lay off as in stop bustin his b@lls - Janni if im wrong please correct me.

Thank you - that's exactly what I meant - I thought it was obvious - but apparently not......

 

[doctorbob]

Hey Vipermad....I am sure you are aware that I am a reasonable guy and have been involved with Vipers from the beginning. I do not think I have been inappropiate or critical in my commentary involving the board. I respect your opinion and I, too, have an open mind when it comes to posting and discussion. However, take a look at Big Carrot's post on the SRT section. I think he is asking a valid question and frankly we have the same people making inappropiate, idiotic, and sarcastic replies. Would it be asking too much to warn or just ban them....I think alot of us are fed up with the petty tirades and behavior. Bob

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Bob,
1) Someone HAS stepped "back up" to the plate for the GEN III area....he is a humble man, one of the greats as far as I am concerned, and he will do (as he always has) a terrific job.

2) I thought it was pretty clear that the forum was for talking about the SRT. All the "fluff" had basically died down until a GEN III owner started the latest thread...now the fluff is back. My (seriously over-valued) 2 cents is for GEN III people to go about their business and talk about modding your cars. At the end of the day (figure of speach) it will get better. There are some who have this wild idea that it can/will change with the flip of a switch. It doesn't happen that way.

I'm going to go out on a limb and single out Craig...who has been around a LONG time. As far as I could tell...he did not post in the GEN III area for a good bit...until the latest thread. A thread, I might add, that basically ONLY served to "fan the flames".

Are things in place to effect change? Yep. Will it happen overnight? Nope. Can the serious members of the GEN III area help? Yep.

From there...it can only get better.

As an aside....does the warning/ban you suggest apply to ANYONE who starts BS.....r just non-SRT owners?

 

[ViperInBlack]

Tony:

I respectfully disagree. Your message was not responsive to Dr. Bob's concern.

To wit, he was asking how brief, negative, sarcastic, critical, deliberately provocative and demeaning responses further communication. Indeed, such responses either breed further contempt at worst and are thread stoppers at best.

I think we all realize that you prefer a solution that is evolutionary, hoping that attrition resolves problems. However, some of the most technically productive owners have ceased to post, many cease to visit and at least one posted this morning that he felt the futility of attempting to communicate.

The core problems remain unaddressed, but I know that we shall not likely redirect you to feel our concern, but I did want to voice that many publically and privately share Dr. Bob's despair.

Warmest regards,

Alice

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Tony:

I respectfully disagree. Your message was not responsive to Dr. Bob's concern.

To wit, he was asking how brief, negative, sarcastic, critical, deliberately provocative and demeaning responses further communication. Indeed, such responses either breed further contempt at worst and are thread stoppers at best.

I think we all realize that you prefer a solution that is evolutionary, hoping that attrition resolves problems. However, some of the most technically productive owners have ceased to post, many cease to visit and at least one posted this morning that he felt the futility of attempting to communicate.

The core problems remain unaddressed, but I know that we shall not likely redirect you to feel our concern, but I did want to voice that many publically and privately share Dr. Bob's despair.

Warmest regards,

Alice

Actually, I do not feel like I am anything like you state. Many people are actinng like this is the first time something like this has happened. Were you here 5 years ago? 4? There are ups and downs. I do not like attrition...but I also do not agree with some elitist-mentality where a forum is off limits to a certain group of people (as prescribed by madman). I have no ida how many times I can say this (or at least imply it). We were a bit remiss in keeping things on topic. That has been reviewed and will be re-visited. Until this latest post about the whining (by an SRT owner)...I doubt Craig gave the forum a second thought (sorry to single you out Craig!!)

You are all free to talk ALL the tech talk you want. The latest threads that are actually doing that, and NOT focusing on the rubbish) are doing quite well. If I had a magic wand and could "make it right" overnight....I would. But, that ain't gonna happen, sorry.

There has been NO hinderance to communicating in the forum lately...good Paxton thread just started....Chris posted some cool pix from his meeting....progress is slow. There are people in place to assist with the growth....what else can be done (short of a complete shuffling of things....cause I am not doing that).

SRT owners have their forum.
It will NOT be made "private" for SRT owners only.
It will be moderated to a point of keeping threads on topic and "brief, negative, sarcastic,
critical, deliberately provocative and demeaning responses" out.

What else can be done (remember...no magic wand).

 

[doctorbob]

Well said, Alice. I am not in despair, I am just tired of the inappropiate responses and posts. I had one of the first 200 RT/10s and now I have the 774th SRT. I have started one "negative" thread (on the SRT coupe) since I have been involved on this site and which I had hoped would be constuctive in encouraging Dodge to upping the H.P. on the car. Frankly, I have loved every viper and none of them were garage queens. I would hope the members of this site would have the same passion and be respectful of others.

 

[ViperInBlack]

Dr. Bob:

Yes, despair is not the correct word; perhaps angst is the word. Respect has been lacking, and use of personal attacks and criticism a way of garnering attention. Personally, I do not believe that sarcasm and ridicule does a thing to promote communication. However, I feel that many have verbalized their concerns. A response from the Tony has been received and his position stated. We may not agree, but we must comply.

Best regards,

Alice

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Alice....it is not "you must comply". Honestly...when we meet up at Tators in May you'll see. Sometimes it is hard for me...I have devoted almost 6 years to this site, so maybe I get a bit harsh...sorry. What is happening is NOT new to me, and there is NO quick fix. Your issues/concerns have been heard, and I have stated that we (I) was remiss in keeping things on track. To get things back on track does NOT take a huge overhaul....it merely takes a concerted effort by all involved, me, you, all doing our part...to move forward. I, as well as Chris, and others, have pledged our support, yet it seems like there is a sense of impatience that permeates the forum. Personally, I am human...as such, once I have made it clear I am trying, and made it clear again, and again....at some point I just have to resign myself to the fact that there are some people who I can't make happy. Heck...up until Carrot's thread...things were looking up. What some want is, in my very humble opinion, a knee-**** reaction, something I am not prepared to do. I know, from experience, that the best plan is KISS.

 

[ViperInBlack]

Tony:

Again, I beg to differ. The drop out rate prior to Carrot's post has been appreciable. People have posted that they are leaving, and others have questioned the wisdom of one line posts...or worse...one word criticisms. The number of friendly, helpful, collegial, and healthily humorous posts have steadily and increasing been replaced by rancor, resentment, accusations, and hostility bordering on threats. I too feel that things will change, not through tolerance but through discipline; a permissive society is a chaotic one.

I just received this e-mail:

-----------snip-------------

"The VCA was a very nice place to visit and I still try to comment but the mentality has changed on the forums. To be honest I would go to get away from things in the real world. But it is so full of a$$holes anymore. Most of the good guys don't visit or even post anymore. To be honest I have not renew my membership for 2005."

---------snip------------

That message was the best summation I have seen to date.

Best regards,

Alice

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I am not sure I can explain this any better. You continue to say that "The number of friendly, helpful, collegial, and healthily humorous posts have steadily and increasing been replaced".....when all the while I am saying that the process of getting suitable (and awesome) help in the form of moderation (to keep things on topic) has only happened in the past week. So again, I must say, taking that in to account....there is no magic wand to fix it. If you want to judge the changes over the course of less than a week...I can hardly stop you. What I can say (I think for a fact) is that IN the course of that week (except for Carrot's post), things have improved. I am sorry if that is not good enough, but nevertheless, it is an improvement. Disclipline will not work....been there, done that. However...I can make you guys your own private forum if that is what you want...then you can just let me know who you want to allow in. Then (and there) you could have all the discipline you want.

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

On a related note to what Vipermad's been saying, it's definitely not a good idea to ever make an SRT-10 only section.

Way before I got my Viper, the main way I learned about the car was by visiting the RT10/GTS section. If that hadn't been open to me, there is a good chance I would have bought something else. I know the same is true for a very large part of the crowd here.