Just Enough
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Can anyone overlay the torque and power curves for the 500 and 600 HP motors? I would be interested to see how they look at the bottom.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Torque HP 06 & 08 overlay
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Tom F&L GoR
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I think it's nerdy cool to point out that most engines (as shown in Steve's link, many difference year models) have similar torque (470-500 lb-ft range) meaning breathing efficiency was similar at mid-range RPM. Then the Dodge boys figured out how to extend the breathing efficiency to higher and higher RPM and finally go with VVT to get the higher horsepower in later years.
Gen 1.. gas, panting, gasping...
Gen 1.. gas, panting, gasping...
My summary is that a Viper driver of a Gen I, II, or III is used to a ton of LOW end torque...as much as 460 lb-ft at 1600 RPM's in a Gen III.
In a Gen IV, the "geni doesn't start to come out of the bottle" until around 3800 RPM...then, look out as the torque (and acceleration!!!) REALLY hits...not unlike a large turbo (and the usual " turbo lag" associated with same)!!!
Unfortunately, this rather striking difference has fooled more than one new Gen IV owner into thinking that the car has lost its "grunt"...UNTIL they wind up the revs!!!
I am a fan of the gradual, calculated break-in, so I'm just starting to tap the ability of our Gen IV. All I can say at this point is that it is a rocket!!!!
In a Gen IV, the "geni doesn't start to come out of the bottle" until around 3800 RPM...then, look out as the torque (and acceleration!!!) REALLY hits...not unlike a large turbo (and the usual " turbo lag" associated with same)!!!
Unfortunately, this rather striking difference has fooled more than one new Gen IV owner into thinking that the car has lost its "grunt"...UNTIL they wind up the revs!!!
I am a fan of the gradual, calculated break-in, so I'm just starting to tap the ability of our Gen IV. All I can say at this point is that it is a rocket!!!!
FikseGTS
Enthusiast
Here is a stock 2006 vs my stock 2008 ACR on the same dyno, different days....
They had trouble picking up the tach when I did my baseline dyno runs, so there are some bumps in the graph and max torque is off a bit.... this wasn't the best pull for the ACR, but the cleanest graph with the least amount of bumps and the best one to compare against the 2006....
They had trouble picking up the tach when I did my baseline dyno runs, so there are some bumps in the graph and max torque is off a bit.... this wasn't the best pull for the ACR, but the cleanest graph with the least amount of bumps and the best one to compare against the 2006....
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adamlotus
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drivng wise gen 3 felt stronger out of the hole but after 5k rpm the gen 3 was like it all it had where the gen 4 just wakes up.love the gen 4 motor
Just Enough
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Thanks all, It looks like the VVT of the gen IV provides substantial low end torque over the gen 3 in addition to it's stellar top end numbers.
Newport Viper
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redtanrt10
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Dave, thanks for the charts!!! Mike
Just Enough
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Oops, I stand corrected. Maybe the dyno pull FikseGTS posted wasn't reading the bottom accurately on the gen 3
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I have a 06 Coupe with Belangers, h/f cats, K & N, side exit exhaust, bigger throttle body and a DC tune. Makes about 550 fwhp, 580 fwtq.
I also have a 09 ACR with Belanders, h/f cats, K & N, Corsa track and a the Mopar ECU. Makes about 680 fwhp, 665 fwtq.
The Gen III (06) pulls harder down low, Gen IV (09) finishes stronger. I have overlaid the power curves generated from a local dyno and the Gen III keeps up with the Gen IV to about 4500 rpm, then the Gen IV just keeps making more power. These two cars are pretty even from a stop and stay pretty even until the top of second gear, third gear is even stronger and by fourth gear the Gen IV is pulling away pretty well. Both cars are fun to drive.
If you are accustomed to driving a Gen I - II or Gen III and then switch to a Gen IV, you have to "re-learn" to drive the Gen IV a bit to get top performance from it. You must spin the engine up higher or you won't really feel much difference between the two. When you do spin the Gen IV up higher, the rev limiter hits pretty quickly, so you really have to be paying attention in the first two gears. It's all fun after that.
Dan
I also have a 09 ACR with Belanders, h/f cats, K & N, Corsa track and a the Mopar ECU. Makes about 680 fwhp, 665 fwtq.
The Gen III (06) pulls harder down low, Gen IV (09) finishes stronger. I have overlaid the power curves generated from a local dyno and the Gen III keeps up with the Gen IV to about 4500 rpm, then the Gen IV just keeps making more power. These two cars are pretty even from a stop and stay pretty even until the top of second gear, third gear is even stronger and by fourth gear the Gen IV is pulling away pretty well. Both cars are fun to drive.
If you are accustomed to driving a Gen I - II or Gen III and then switch to a Gen IV, you have to "re-learn" to drive the Gen IV a bit to get top performance from it. You must spin the engine up higher or you won't really feel much difference between the two. When you do spin the Gen IV up higher, the rev limiter hits pretty quickly, so you really have to be paying attention in the first two gears. It's all fun after that.
Dan
Newport Viper
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Torquemonster
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very interesting overlay, and impressive how SRT were able to generate significant top end without hurting bottom end.
I like how that no where power drops off below a Gen 1 or 2 motor and it only marginally drops below the Gen 3 for a neglible rpm range. Also, the drop is too small to feel by seat of pants.
Up to 4000rpm I believe the difference between Gen 3 and 4 would be in the "feel" of power delivery, not actual aceleration because as said above - they're near neck and neck until 4k. After 4k the gen 4 pulls so much stronger that it is noticeable and that gives the impression it is soft on the bottom end... when it isn't.
I like how that no where power drops off below a Gen 1 or 2 motor and it only marginally drops below the Gen 3 for a neglible rpm range. Also, the drop is too small to feel by seat of pants.
Up to 4000rpm I believe the difference between Gen 3 and 4 would be in the "feel" of power delivery, not actual aceleration because as said above - they're near neck and neck until 4k. After 4k the gen 4 pulls so much stronger that it is noticeable and that gives the impression it is soft on the bottom end... when it isn't.
FikseGTS
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if you were actually racing the two, you wouldn't be at 4k rpm anyways.... 
very interesting overlay, and impressive how SRT were able to generate significant top end without hurting bottom end.
I like how that no where power drops off below a Gen 1 or 2 motor and it only marginally drops below the Gen 3 for a neglible rpm range. Also, the drop is too small to feel by seat of pants.
Up to 4000rpm I believe the difference between Gen 3 and 4 would be in the "feel" of power delivery, not actual aceleration because as said above - they're near neck and neck until 4k. After 4k the gen 4 pulls so much stronger that it is noticeable and that gives the impression it is soft on the bottom end... when it isn't.
