Viper Recall #998 and #999 - READ BEFORE YOU GO TO THE DEALER

Janni

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Copy of recall will be here this evening. We have a call scheduled with Tom Sessions to see how we can best get this recall done for our club members. The standard recall (no evidence of cracks) pays 5.3 hours and REQUIRES WELDING (#998). We have the following concerns:

1) Welding - all recalls require welding. We want a REALLY good welder to do this - usually they are not found at dealerships / dealer body shops. Most folks LEARN there, then go to independent body shops. Most Viper Techs are great mechanics - not necessarily great welders...
2) I have heard from 2 local Dodge dealers about this recall "urging" me to come in at once. I have heard that the warranty and dealer service departments have been slow all over. These are not dealers that the club uses for ANYTHING. I have a BIG CONCERN that this recall is being looked at as a cash cow by dealers that do not sell a lot of Vipers. If I were DC I would be concerned enough to want pictures before letting them go ahead and perform the fix for cracks as opposed to the preventative 5.3 hour fix. The frame fix (differential) is MAJOR - requiring dropping of the fuel tank, ripping out a ton of suspension pieces, and replacing the steering rack mounts, realigning the car, etc is major, too. THERE ARE VERY FEW DEALERS I WOULD TRUST TO DO THIS.
3) I will inspect my car FIRST before bringing it anywhere. I know we do not have cracks - but I may bring the car to each of these dealers to see what they say... PLEASE FOLKS - TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK AT YOUR CAR AND SEE IF YOU SEE ANYTHING. If the recall has pictures (just founf out it does - drawings), I'll post the areas of concern, so that we can all do a "self examination"
smile.gif

4) I would advise anyone getting this done to INSIST on seeing the cracks before authorizing the more complex repair. (We use our cars pretty hard and neither is affected. Dave Jenkins sees MANY track cars and has only seen this problem 2 times - this SHOULD NOT BE COMMON ON STREET ONLY CARS)

Maybe I am paranoid, but one of the dealers that is aggressively pursuing Viper owners for this recall - their Tech finished Viper School LAST WEEK. I do not think this is out of the goodness of their hearts or concern for the customer. Since this is a recall, I would think that the standards for authorizing this are VERY LENIENT and not subject to the same DC pushback as a regular warranty item. Make sure you are going to a high volume Viper dealer and ask some questions before having this done.

We'll post more later when we figure out how we are going to handle and we'll make this opportunity available to anyone close enough to make the drive.

Recall 998 -- 1996-1999 1/2 Steering Rack Mounts and Differential Mounts

Recall 999 -- 1999 1/2 (post March 1 build date) through 2000 JUST the STEERING RACK MOUNTS
 

Ron

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Thanks very much Janni for your time on this. I too share your concerns.....

Please keep us posted.</FONT f>
 

pauls

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We need an allowance to have work done at a quality location. No dealer is going to weld the car the way a Viper owner wants it.
 

King GTS

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Janni is a very "active" President and that's awesome! Some President's don't even take the time to contribute but not so with Janni.
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Thanks for the info!
 

V10 MOJO

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well i appreciate the advice, unfortunately mine is already at the dealership and undergoing the recall reapirs as i type this, so ill just hope for the best. bottom line is this; if specs are followed according to recall manual then it will be done right as the repairs instructions are by the engineers and any authorized viper tech should be capable of following the orders. my dealer was going to a local welding shop who does racecar chassis and the like for the welding materials , equipment, etc so i guess at this point ive no alternative except to trust them. as far as cosmetics go; a moot point to me as im not concerned if a weld looks pretty, as long as its out of sight and effective.
 

jamie

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Janni,

Thanks for the info! Please give us detailed info on what to look for and where. I just my car and I am not that familiar with it yet. Thanks alot!!
 

Matt Houston

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It would be great if someone could post pictures of what to look for as to what the crack looks like and it's possible locations...Also, has anyone actually experienced this problem or is it just problematic? Matt
 

Performin Norman

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Well, I was headed off to have my AC fixed under warranty (its never worked right since I bought it) and have them check out that recalls but maybe I should wait. Do you guys think that would be a good idea?
 

99 R/T 10

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I have a question regarding the support for the rear knuckle. I don't think this is going to be covered and I informed my Viper tech about this. The support arm coming off the right rear knuckle was not welded correctly. The front side broke because the rear part of the bracket wasn't holding any weight(there was NO connection between the bracket and frame). The front part of the bracket pulled out of the frame. At the time I did not know about the problems with some of the welds, and thought nothing of putting it back up and rewelding it(mig). I was involved in the welding(watching very closely) and saw that it was done right. Is there any thing I can do to prove to DC if there is something else that may come up? Is there anything I need to be worried about? I heard a couple of horror stories about bad welds and I'm looking for any input. I wish I had some pictures to illustrate my point and if I have to I'll go pull the wheel off and Thanks

Mike
 

toddt

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I am told my car is only subject to the front end recall (999).

How involved is this one?

The Service tech told me it was 40 hours.
 

Viper Wizard

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I just finished reading the instructions for Recall #998 & 999 ALL 110 PAGES!

OH BOY!!
redface.gif


If you have cracks [on your car], Recall #998 may take up to 22.7 hours? [That's what DC is paying the Dealer!] I'm telling you that Tech will have to be **** good or by the fifth one!
Recall #999 may take up to 7.9 hours!

I'm sure there will be only a handful of Dealers in this Country that will be able to handle this Recall!!

It is a good idea to get a hold of your regional president to find out what Dealer in your area is qualified to do this Recall BEFORE you make an appointment!

Looks like Janni is taking care of the "Carolinas".[Way to go!]
I guess I'm it for NY/CT.
smile.gif
 

Ulysses

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There was a post a long way back with picture that had arrows which pointed out the danger spots on the front. This was posted when rumors of a recall first began to circulate. I believe GTS Dean was the originator of the post. Do a search.

What are the chances that DC would pay someone other than a dealer to do the welding?
 

Tomer

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Todd, where did you take your car? I presume not Dublin Dodge. I am inclined not to go there...

I appreciate your input.

Tomer
 

Viper Specialty

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why not have the dealership take apart your cars to the point of welding, then hire a private welder to come in and do the welding? There are MANY people that do this, they work out of a truck, and are very experienced. as long as it meets the Viper Techs "check" it should be OK. most welders dont charge a lot.
 

GTS Dean

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Houston:
It would be great if someone could post pictures of what to look for as to what the crack looks like and it's possible locations...Also, has anyone actually experienced this problem or is it just problematic? Matt

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

here you go -

WARNING ALL VIPER RACERS
 

Ron

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">I fully agree with Chuck.

It's worth focusing the business to the most capable Dodge dealer in a given area even if it isn't your regular shop. Let one Viper Tech develop the expertise and capitalize on that.

I know for the IN/KY VCA region, that'll be a project I'll be supporting.

Another great value in VCA membership.</FONT f>
 

Wing King

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Janni is 100% correct. This IS a big deal, and it's going to cost Dodge a TON of money.

In our Southwest Zone we are working TOGETHER with the DC Training Center in our area to make sure that a number of dealers have a PLAN to accomplish what needs to be done. They are trying to line up a situation where the car can be brought in to a dealer and first "undressed" by the Viper Tech. Then, a CERTIFIED, expert welder who is "on call" by appointment with the dealer can be brought in to handle the welding, with supervision by the Tech. Then comes the difficult part of getting everything back together again, with a new alignment. We're trying to work together on this, because we're worried that, unless the recall is completed PERFECTLY, the "cure" could end up being worse than the disease!!!!

I hope that everyone else around the country will take their time and be very careful about getting this done the RIGHT way. My car is one that needs the "full meal deal", and I'm going to make sure I become very cozy with my dealer and Tech, including assurances about the qualified welder, prior to letting them have at it. My 97 GTS is like a member of my family, and I want to be VERY confident about the surgeon before I let him "start cuttin"!. I urge everyone to READ THE RECALL for yourself, and become educated about it BEFORE trying to make an appointment.
 

SneakyPete

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Here we go again, from one defect to another.

I can't catch a break.

thanks Janni



<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by SLITHRN on 05-30-2002 at 10:06 AM</font>
 

SmokinV10

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I was told by DC that my 99 GTS only has to have recall #999 done. I am, however hesistant on letting the dealer perform this recall. Janni I noticed that you said that recall 998 requiers welding. Does 999?
 

SneakyPete

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After seeing this tonight, I am going to hold of buying a viper until the Frame repair issue is started and in progress and see how it is going. I have not had my viper for 3 months, so whats another month.

I was going to buy one this Friday morning.

After reading this thread, I wonder once the word gets out that most of the vipers out there need frame repair and welding that could take up to 22 + hours, if the price of these cars is going to plumit to the bottom of the toilet. This could especially be the case if the repairs dont get done properly and people start dumping the cars.

If the repairs that are being done are getting done successful, then pick one up and get the repair done.

I have a feeling this frame and steering differential repair could be a REAL big mess.

Any insight on how commited DC is to do this right. Do the viper tech even get special training or is it fly by night?

Just food for thought.




<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by SLITHRN on 05-30-2002 at 10:06 AM</font>
 

SmokinV10

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I just emailed my Viper Tech for insight. I hope his reply will give us an insight on what DC is doing from a Viper Tech perspective. My Tech is very good and consciensous. Moreover, he has treated me more than fairly in the past. I will try to keep everyone posted.
 

Henry Cone

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Guys, I'll try to shed more light on this recall. I now have a copy of 998 and have reviewed it in detail. There are several suggestions that I can offer from this.

1. Don't panic!! And don't get in too big a hurry to get this done - be sure that you have inspected your car so that you know what you are getting in to.

2. Recall 998 is for all 96 to 99 cars up to a build date of March 1, 1999 - these cars require inspection of both the steering rack mount welds as well as the left side differential mounts. Recall 999 covers 1999 and 2000 cars and only requires inspection of ths steering rack mount - there was apparently a running change to the rear frame differential mounts.

3. THIS IS IMPORTANT - Most cars (I would guess 98+ %) will not have any cracks and will require only the addition of the steering rack mount reinforcement pieces (both 998 and 999) and the differential mount reinforcement pieces (recall 998 only). Cars most likely to have cracks are ones run at the track on Hoosiers or slicks, dragged with slicks or other high traction drag tires. or that have been damaged in an accident. We have numerous Viper Days events on both of our cars with me in the gravel traps on several occasions and Janni having hit a wall hard enough to break the steering rack assembly but neither of our cars show any cracks. How do I know?? We inspect them after each and every track event.

4. For the front (recalls 998 and 999), if inspection does not reveal any cracks then all that is required is the additional of several frame reinforcement pieces. One of them does require welding and there are very specific instructions in the recall as to how this is to be done. The other 2 pieces involve grinding off some existing gussets and replacing them with larger ones that are riveted in place with numerous structural steel rivets. Except for the welding this reinforcement is relatively straight forward as it does not require any dissasembly, etc. NO ALIGNMENT WORK IS REQUIRED UNLESS CRACKS ARE FOUND!! So the only difficultly is applying the recalls to most cars is the welding.

5. For the rear (recall 998 only) the directions require that the differential be removed to do the inspection. If no weld cracks are found several frame reinforcements are added . The one on the right side is relatively straight forward. The one on the left side is more complicated but neither requires welding. Both of these reinforcements are riveted in place with numerous structural steel rivets. AGAIN NO ALIGNMENT WORK IS REQUIRED UNLESS CRACKS ARE FOUND!!!

6. The labor time shown for the front is 2.6 hours to inspect the steering rack mount and add the reinforcements if no weld cracks are found. This seems very reasonable.

7. The labor time shown for the rear is 2.7 hours to remove the differential, inspect the mounts for cracks, install the reimforcement pieces, and reinstall the differential if no weld cracks are found. This seems to be pushing it a bit but is not too far off - the actual time may vary depending upon the exhaust system on the car as this will have to be partially removed to remove the differential.

8. THE ABOVE SHOULD BE ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF CARS!!! My suggestion is to inspect your car for weld cracks yourself and / or make sure that they are absolutely present before authorizing anything other than adding the reinforcements. DON"T ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE CRACKS AND WANT THE MORE DRASTIC REPAIRS MADE!!! The reason that I say this is that if cracks are present the recall repair procedure is involved enough that it will require a very good and careful tech to get you car back to being right. And complete alignments will required for each end of the car that requires the full recall repair procedure. My fear is that an incorrectly done full recall could leave a car worse off than before the work was done!!!

9. If steering rack mount cracks are found in the front, the repair procedure requires the complete replacement of the steering rack mount with a new one. This is very involved and getting the new one welded in place in exactly the right position is going to be difficult and tedious. After a new rack mount is installed the reinforcements are added. Then several hours of front end alignment work are required. 2.0 hours of labor is allowed for changing the mount with some portion of 3.4 hours af total alignment time allowed used for the front end alignment. My view is that you don't want to have to have this done unless it is absolutely necessary.

10. If differential mount cracks are found at the rear things get really involved. Because of the welding required it is necesary to removed the fuel tank from the car. Several reinforcement pieces are welded in place to reinforce the rear frame about the differential. The welding required is involved and extencive. The total time for the rear differential mount repair (including removing the fuel tank) ranges from between 6.5 and 7.6 hours depending upon the car (coupe or roadster) and how bad the cracking is. Again some portion of 3.4 hours of alignment is also required to get the rear suspension aligned correctly. Again my view is that you don't want to have this done unless it is absolutely necessary.

I hope that the above information helps!! We will try to post some of the drawings of the areas to be inspected out of the recalls tomorrow. Feel free to contact us with questions. And of course we will be trying to get suitable arrangements set up for our Carolinas Region members.
 

Viper Wizard

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Henry Cone:

7. The labor time shown for the rear is 2.7 hours to remove the differential, inspect the mounts for cracks, install the reimforcement pieces, and reinstall the differential if no weld cracks are found. This seems to be pushing it a bit but is not too far off - the actual time may vary depending upon the exhaust system on the car as this will have to be partially removed to remove the differential.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"I don't care who gets mad at me", if a Dealer/Tech can do it in that time, he's cutting corners! DC has now washed their hands of you, it's now up to the Dealers to preform the work correctly. Very little or no profit$$ will come from this Recall IF IT IS DONE RIGHT! If you find a Dealer that says "it's a piece of cake", WALK AWAY! RUN!!
BURNOUT.gif


"When I do Warranty or Recall work, the "Clock" IS NOT involved! If I ask for more time from the front of the horse, I get sent to the back of the horse!
pissed.gif
"

Don't RUSH to do this Recall! Do the research first!!
 
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Janni

Janni

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As promised... Copies of pages from the recall...

Steering rack:

You must be registered for see images


Inspect the Differential Mount:

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More detail on Differential Mount:

You must be registered for see images


Hours associated with each part of the repair - FYI

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Hope this helps folks be able to inspect their own cars first, before going to the dealer so that they know what to expect...
 

Chuck 97 GTS

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First off, thanks to Janni and Henry for the info. Earlier in this post you said that your cars don't have cracks because you inspect them frequently. Can you make a proper inspection of the diff mount with the diff installed or do you have to remove it?
 
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Janni

Janni

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Chuck,
Had the diff out of my car a couple of months ago and did a big inspection then. Also, had the exhaust off both cars when we did the high flow cat install so were able to get a good look at all the mounting brackets. The only place that is really hard to see if the top of the diff mounting bracket. Henry thinks you can see everything (even if you use a mirror) and since he's the one that spends more time under the car than I do... I'll defer to him....
 

Tomer

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My car is a 96 RT, I will check the build date...Any chance it does not have the problem if it was built in 95?

Tomer
 
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Janni

Janni

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tomer:
My car is a 96 RT, I will check the build date...Any chance it does not have the problem if it was built in 95?

Tomer

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope - you need to have the recall performed... 1996 RTs got the "new" frame and suspension..... thus their Gen 1.5 designation.

And don't worry - this is not a big deal - its preventative in most cases....
 

JonB

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THIS BOARD and VCA ROCKS !

Dean posted thos many moons ago. We alos had a "gusset repair kit" (SEARCH) posted around the same time.

The OREGON VCA had a meeting last weekend, and our Viper tech attended and filled us in. He also commented on the meager time allowance for the repair.

NEW INFO: We had a key player with Team Viper as a VCA guest here in Portland almost 2 years ago. He met with our tech, and our president (me) to have us on an "unofficial watch" of those cars that were frequently in VCA and other track events. He showed us where to look, and why to look. Especially those cars that rode on SLICKS, or had suspension mods that accomplished G-forces above 1.1 or more on the steering rack. Or drag raced on slicks for the rear end problem.

This board has been fully aware, as are tech inspectors at Viper Days events.

Our tech (Ken at Timberline Dodge) has quietly and carefully inspected EVERY Viper even if it was only in for an oil change.

Nothing.

That does not mean this is NOT a serious potential problem.... but those of you that simply tool around town and don't don slicks are not likely to be singing "You Picked A Fine Time To Leave Me, Loose-Wheel" any time soon...

Thanks DEAN and JANNI and all those who are part of the solutions.

36,000 miles........10,000 track miles...... no cracks.
 

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